AMG ceramic brake lifetime?

AMG ceramic brake lifetime?

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Discussion

Eric Sor

Original Poster:

17 posts

112 months

Monday 24th November 2014
quotequote all
According to my local Mercedes Ascot dealership, the official Mercedes UK policy on lifetime of AMG ceramic brakes is less than 1 year/10,000 miles for normal road use.

Has anyone got experience if AMG brakes are really that bad?

Palmball

1,267 posts

173 months

Monday 24th November 2014
quotequote all
WHAT!?! Thats a load of rubbish - we're talking proper ceramic brakes here, right? A number of OEM's use brakes made by the same manufacturer (Brembo) so there shouldn't be a huge difference whether they're fitted to a Merc or an Aston. The discs for normal road use should last the life of the car (or at least a good couple of hundred thousand miles). The pads also last a decent time - probably around 40k miles if the wear SLS is anything to go by - it's on 20k miles and the pads aren't even halfway worn.

The only time you should need to replace carbon discs is if they get damaged - they are quite fragile so this is far more likely than them wearing out. For instance, if you get a stone get jammed in the calliper and it scores the disc, you'll need a new disc. Or if you take a wheel off and accidentally chipping some off the disc off, you'll need a new disc. But otherwise, for normal road use they should be more durable than steel discs by far.

ecain63

10,588 posts

174 months

Monday 24th November 2014
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Or is the OP confused by the 'composite brake package' on the outgoing C63? In which case they do last circa 20k miles for the fronts. These discs are a lighter build streel disc with an aluminium bell and veins.

Eric Sor

Original Poster:

17 posts

112 months

Monday 24th November 2014
quotequote all
No, this is for real. We're talking about a 1 year old SL 63 AMG with the optional performance package including factory fitted ceramic brakes. Mercedes in Ascot informs that Mercedes UK does not consider the (four) faulty discs under warranty (the car went in for the first service due to its first birthday at less than 10,000 miles of normal road use). Mercedes tells me that such is life and brake discs are not under warranty. Funny thing is that the pads are fine and they are the softer of the two. Obvious to most that the harder part will only be the single failing one if subject to some sort of manufacturing issue. There's no way that I am to blame for damaging four ceramic discs around the Tesco parking lot while the pads are fine!

This is an expensive issue, but that's not an excuse for Mercedes. I have asked Mercedes UK to confirm things in writing as other buyers should know what they are in for if they get AMG ceramic brakes.

SFO

5,162 posts

182 months

Monday 24th November 2014
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sounds like MB saying whatever it needs to say to avoid any responsibility for the ceramic discs ...

Palmball

1,267 posts

173 months

Monday 24th November 2014
quotequote all
Sounds like a tough email needs to be sent to their customer service director. Thats fking outrageous. PM if you need help.

PositronicRay

26,958 posts

182 months

Monday 24th November 2014
quotequote all
What's actually wrong with them? I've known ceramics to "craze" after a dunking in a water-splash whilst hot.

Palmball

1,267 posts

173 months

Monday 24th November 2014
quotequote all
PositronicRay said:
What's actually wrong with them? I've known ceramics to "craze" after a dunking in a water-splash whilst hot.
Was going to be my very next question, because unless they're damaged (chipped, cracked etc) I just can't see how they'd have worn in such a short time. Only if they are 'damaged' would I then understand MB washing their hands of this.

ecain63

10,588 posts

174 months

Monday 24th November 2014
quotequote all
If they are ceramic then the disc itself should not really wear due to normal use...... ever! The pads are what take the heat / hit and at that they will last far longer than their cheaper 'regular' AMG alternatives. Audi had issues with discs cracking back in the early days but they happily replaced under warranty.

I fear either you haven't given the full story or MB are dodging a bill. My recent experience makes me think the latter and MB are pulling a fast one. Strong words to MB customer services may help your cause but don't expect an easy ride.

Eddie

GarethGTR

303 posts

170 months

Tuesday 25th November 2014
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Hi

I am sorry to hear about this.

I have composites on my C63, and was told, after only 20k miles, that the discs needed replacing.
I politely pointed out that cracking must surely be a warranty issue....after a lot of phone calls and usual no one getting back to me I was eventually told "Sorry, our mistake Sir, you discs are fine"

The discs did need replacing, as did the pads (cracking, not wear) and AMG Germany, Mercedes UK and the local (useless) dealer refused to pay or even contribute, so I went my own way.
If I could be bothered I would have gone to court.

Good Luck!

Gareth

Eric Sor

Original Poster:

17 posts

112 months

Tuesday 25th November 2014
quotequote all
Hi, and thanks for all the input. Very kind, everyone.

I made contact directly with AMG in Germany and have sent them pictures for their expert evaluation of what this really is about and what should be done. With the number of high end cars being fitted with ceramic brakes as standard, issues such as mine are to be solved immediately under warranty or buyers should stay away from the ceramics. Doing the school run and occasional visit to Tesco should not wear out AMG ceramics in less than a year.

Quite sure that the sales guys in the dealership will not inform customers that expected lifetime is less than a year and less than 10,000 miles, as I was told a bit too late.

Charliesum

246 posts

142 months

Tuesday 25th November 2014
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Fight it mate
When I was looking at a Aston dbs I was worried by the fact of unknown details of the ceramics but was told they would outlive the car under normal driving

Charliesum

246 posts

142 months

Tuesday 25th November 2014
quotequote all
Fight it mate
When I was looking at a Aston dbs I was worried by the fact of unknown details of the ceramics but was told they would outlive the car under normal driving

Eric Sor

Original Poster:

17 posts

112 months

Wednesday 26th November 2014
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And here's the end of the story: AMG has confirmed that the discs are actually not damaged; it's just surface mosaic patterns that are normal. That just saved me 8,000 pounds. I was not keen on ceramic brakes in the first place - this has not improved the experience. The lesson learned is that Mercedes will turn away from the warranty if the parts involved are within the definition of "wear parts", completely ignoring that wear parts may indeed be faulty as any other part may. Next time you buy a car with ceramics, ask to have confirmed that they won't brake for many years. The car sales guys will of course have to confirm this and you're much better off against the warranty department next year if things go bad.

Thanks for all the input.

P.Nott

227 posts

188 months

Wednesday 26th November 2014
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Good news they are ok, but you have to wonder about the ability of the MB Ascot techs who presumably thought they were faulty in the first place. My own experiences of Greenoaks in Ascot were none too positive either.

PositronicRay

26,958 posts

182 months

Thursday 27th November 2014
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Eric Sor said:
. Next time you buy a car with ceramics, ask to have confirmed that they won't brake for many years. .
Sorry couldn't help myself, pleased you're sorted. smile

gvij

363 posts

123 months

Thursday 27th November 2014
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Anyone prepared to part with 8k for a few discs is mental. Im relatively well off ie in top few percent of earners but that's crazy. Id convert to steel for probably less than 500 quid if needs be. These are road cars and the last hundreth of a second is irrelevant.

Blue62

8,749 posts

151 months

Thursday 27th November 2014
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Pleased for the OP, I would be deeply concerned if my discs, steel or ceramic, were not covered after a relatively short time or mileage. I know plenty of people who think ceramics are the last word, but I still don't get it for road use as the temperature needed to extract the performance advantage makes them a bit of a nonsense IMO. Others talk about increased disc and pad life making them more economical, but I don't keep a car longer than a couple of years and in any event I don't think they've been in common use long enough to tell.


LooneyTunes

6,781 posts

157 months

Sunday 30th November 2014
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Eric Sor said:
Next time you buy a car with ceramics, ask to have confirmed that they won't brake for many years. The car sales guys will of course have to confirm this and you're much better off against the warranty department next year if things go bad.
Even if you get this, you're still at their mercy when it comes to replacement due to damage.

I'll be steering clear of ceramics for a couple more years until real world life is better understood.

Can see them being an issue for residuals as cars equipped with them get a bit older.

Jon1967x

7,177 posts

123 months

Sunday 30th November 2014
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I'd be having an argument with the dealer about why they said they needed replacement when they didn't and what confidence should you have in them with any other work on your car. Trading standards would have a field day over a back street garage fleecing £300 from an old biddy for work that didn't need doing. What they've just done is daylight robbery