C63 - a good buy?
Discussion
seawise said:
I am a serial 911 nut (had most over the years, still got 3) but the car I choose as my daily driver is a 2013 C63 wagon - I absolutely love it. Much more fun than a C2S 997 believe it or not ! You never hear a bad word spoken about them from owners either, which is more than can be said with 996/977 Carreras and M3's etc.
Wow that's interesting. I must say apart from the questionable MPG, don't appear to hear a bag word about them on here either which is great. PompeyPaul said:
Thanks, a great read. Never better than 14mpg??
Depends on 1) your driving style and 2) type of roadsOver 18k miles I averaged 18.3mpg with my high being 27mpg on a drive from Nottingham to Heathrow and my low being a 40min x-country blat where I got 9mpg.
A normal small journey would be 17-22mpg.
To average 14 mpg you need to drive like a lunatic or live in central London
moffat said:
Depends on 1) your driving style and 2) type of roads
Over 18k miles I averaged 18.3mpg with my high being 27mpg on a drive from Nottingham to Heathrow and my low being a 40min x-country blat where I got 9mpg.
A normal small journey would be 17-22mpg.
To average 14 mpg you need to drive like a lunatic or live in central London
That's reassuring to hear. I don't live in London and will be able to manage the enthusiastic driving to the regular to aim close to those figures Over 18k miles I averaged 18.3mpg with my high being 27mpg on a drive from Nottingham to Heathrow and my low being a 40min x-country blat where I got 9mpg.
A normal small journey would be 17-22mpg.
To average 14 mpg you need to drive like a lunatic or live in central London
moffat said:
PompeyPaul said:
Thanks, a great read. Never better than 14mpg??
Depends on 1) your driving style and 2) type of roadsOver 18k miles I averaged 18.3mpg with my high being 27mpg on a drive from Nottingham to Heathrow and my low being a 40min x-country blat where I got 9mpg.
A normal small journey would be 17-22mpg.
To average 14 mpg you need to drive like a lunatic or live in central London
If you've never owned a proper sports car buy the 911 if you value handling/feedback. The control weights (clutch/gearbox/brake pedal etc..) are just perfect and the "numbers" don't tell you this.
Porsche ponies also pull harder the C2S is a very quick car that inspires confidence, so much traction and grip to lean on through the corners you'll be chucking it about in no time they really do pivot around their hips.
The other 2 are also lovely but not in the same league if you want a sports car.
Porsche ponies also pull harder the C2S is a very quick car that inspires confidence, so much traction and grip to lean on through the corners you'll be chucking it about in no time they really do pivot around their hips.
The other 2 are also lovely but not in the same league if you want a sports car.
Edited by Wills2 on Tuesday 10th February 21:27
Really I can't say anything notably bad about my Coupe as I went into ownership with my eyes wide open.
For example, the ride (even without PP) is pretty damn harsh with 19" wheels on bad roads and those sodding lateral ridges you sometimes get on motorways where surface material meets surface material but, I have always owned cars with large alloy wheels, small tyres and sports suspension so I knew this.
The car has a lot of torque, pushed through relatively narrow (255) rear tyres so, exiting corners with throttle can be "fun" on anything but warm and dry Tarmac. Again, this has been my experience with all of my RWD cars, all have been high performance.
Fuel economy is low but, then again I have always owned performance cars where low-mid-20's mpg has been the norm. What I've found is that as technology has progressed, large engines (such as the M156) are about as fuel efficient as smaller engines were 8-10yrs ago and to be honest, not far away from some newer performance turbo engines than that. The MPG in this is not far off what you get in the Focus ST2/3, Impreza WRX or Mitsi Lancer Evolution so, it's not like we're clutching at a 10mpg average or anything.
Tyres? Again I've always been in this boat. They're only expensive because you should never be tight when it comes to buying rubber. Therefore you're limited to premium brands, especially since you want to stick this car to the road.
Servicing is incredibly reasonable. I have a service plan but I wouldn't cry at the dealership if I had to pay. Brakes again are reasonable except for the PP composite front discs which will maybe draw a tear from your eye come time to pay up.
Reliability has been absolutely (touch wood) perfect; far less complicated than any of my turbocharged cars. The engine, by itself, is built to make raw power with no forced induction complexity needed. It just does what it does.
I smile every time I start the car, let it run down through the gears on the over run in S+ and M modes, full throttle straight line acceleration, throttle blip coming to a stop etc etc. It's deceptive to drive as you are always going faster than you feel. With the later MCT gearbox at least there is less delay between shift and power-on so, watch the speedo if you dare and there is literally no let up in the ferociousness it builds speed.
No doubt that a Porsche could hand it a thing or two in the bends but, don't believe that this is just a drifting machine as it's not. It's very taut, pointed and stable on its feet. Command it to drift and it will but it won't do it unless encouraged and is otherwise still a very well cornering car capable of doing everything.
If you ever forget how nice it sounds, drop the back seats, crack the windows open and go for it. Public reception of the car in general is positive, gestured with thumbs up, smiles and conversation sparked by genuine interest. Creep up along side a sporty car and see him drop his window, likewise for truck drivers. I also tend to get little aggression on the road and very little people trying to intimidate me.
The only bugbear I have right now is the limitations set by the weather. I really cannot wait to be able to hook the rear tyres again, with windows fully open.
For example, the ride (even without PP) is pretty damn harsh with 19" wheels on bad roads and those sodding lateral ridges you sometimes get on motorways where surface material meets surface material but, I have always owned cars with large alloy wheels, small tyres and sports suspension so I knew this.
The car has a lot of torque, pushed through relatively narrow (255) rear tyres so, exiting corners with throttle can be "fun" on anything but warm and dry Tarmac. Again, this has been my experience with all of my RWD cars, all have been high performance.
Fuel economy is low but, then again I have always owned performance cars where low-mid-20's mpg has been the norm. What I've found is that as technology has progressed, large engines (such as the M156) are about as fuel efficient as smaller engines were 8-10yrs ago and to be honest, not far away from some newer performance turbo engines than that. The MPG in this is not far off what you get in the Focus ST2/3, Impreza WRX or Mitsi Lancer Evolution so, it's not like we're clutching at a 10mpg average or anything.
Tyres? Again I've always been in this boat. They're only expensive because you should never be tight when it comes to buying rubber. Therefore you're limited to premium brands, especially since you want to stick this car to the road.
Servicing is incredibly reasonable. I have a service plan but I wouldn't cry at the dealership if I had to pay. Brakes again are reasonable except for the PP composite front discs which will maybe draw a tear from your eye come time to pay up.
Reliability has been absolutely (touch wood) perfect; far less complicated than any of my turbocharged cars. The engine, by itself, is built to make raw power with no forced induction complexity needed. It just does what it does.
I smile every time I start the car, let it run down through the gears on the over run in S+ and M modes, full throttle straight line acceleration, throttle blip coming to a stop etc etc. It's deceptive to drive as you are always going faster than you feel. With the later MCT gearbox at least there is less delay between shift and power-on so, watch the speedo if you dare and there is literally no let up in the ferociousness it builds speed.
No doubt that a Porsche could hand it a thing or two in the bends but, don't believe that this is just a drifting machine as it's not. It's very taut, pointed and stable on its feet. Command it to drift and it will but it won't do it unless encouraged and is otherwise still a very well cornering car capable of doing everything.
If you ever forget how nice it sounds, drop the back seats, crack the windows open and go for it. Public reception of the car in general is positive, gestured with thumbs up, smiles and conversation sparked by genuine interest. Creep up along side a sporty car and see him drop his window, likewise for truck drivers. I also tend to get little aggression on the road and very little people trying to intimidate me.
The only bugbear I have right now is the limitations set by the weather. I really cannot wait to be able to hook the rear tyres again, with windows fully open.
Edited by 1Addicted on Wednesday 11th February 11:18
1Addicted said:
watch the speedo if you dare and there is literally no let up in the ferociousness it builds speed.
Ain't that the truth: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGwPDCyUXQU&li...1Addicted said:
Really I can't say anything notably bad about my Coupe as I went into ownership with my eyes wide open.
For example, the ride (even without PP) is pretty damn harsh with 19" wheels on bad roads and those sodding lateral ridges you sometimes get on motorways where surface material meets surface material but, I have always owned cars with large alloy wheels, small tyres and sports suspension so I knew this.
The car has a lot of torque, pushed through relatively narrow (255) rear tyres so, exiting corners with throttle can be "fun" on anything but warm and dry Tarmac. Again, this has been my experience with all of my RWD cars, all have been high performance.
Fuel economy is low but, then again I have always owned performance cars where low-mid-20's mpg has been the norm. What I've found is that as technology has progressed, large engines (such as the M156) are about as fuel efficient as smaller engines were 8-10yrs ago and to be honest, not far away from some newer performance turbo engines than that. The MPG in this is not far off what you get in the Focus ST2/3, Impreza WRX or Mitsi Lancer Evolution so, it's not like we're clutching at a 10mpg average or anything.
Tyres? Again I've always been in this boat. They're only expensive because you should never be tight when it comes to buying rubber. Therefore you're limited to premium brands, especially since you want to stick this car to the road.
Servicing is incredibly reasonable. I have a service plan but I wouldn't cry at the dealership if I had to pay. Brakes again are reasonable except for the PP composite front discs which will maybe draw a tear from your eye come time to pay up.
Reliability has been absolutely (touch wood) perfect; far less complicated than any of my turbocharged cars. The engine, by itself, is built to make raw power with no forced induction complexity needed. It just does what it does.
I smile every time I start the car, let it run down through the gears on the over run in S+ and M modes, full throttle straight line acceleration, throttle blip coming to a stop etc etc. It's deceptive to drive as you are always going faster than you feel. With the later MCT gearbox at least there is less delay between shift and power-on so, watch the speedo if you dare and there is literally no let up in the ferociousness it builds speed.
No doubt that a Porsche could hand it a thing or two in the bends but, don't believe that this is just a drifting machine as it's not. It's very taut, pointed and stable on its feet. Command it to drift and it will but it won't do it unless encouraged and is otherwise still a very well cornering car capable of doing everything.
If you ever forget how nice it sounds, drop the back seats, crack the windows open and go for it. Public reception of the car in general is positive, gestured with thumbs up, smiles and conversation sparked by genuine interest. Creep up along side a sporty car and see him drop his window, likewise for truck drivers. I also tend to get little aggression on the road and very little people trying to intimidate me.
The only bugbear I have right now is the limitations set by the weather. I really cannot wait to be able to hook the rear tyres again, with windows fully open.
Great input - thanks very much!For example, the ride (even without PP) is pretty damn harsh with 19" wheels on bad roads and those sodding lateral ridges you sometimes get on motorways where surface material meets surface material but, I have always owned cars with large alloy wheels, small tyres and sports suspension so I knew this.
The car has a lot of torque, pushed through relatively narrow (255) rear tyres so, exiting corners with throttle can be "fun" on anything but warm and dry Tarmac. Again, this has been my experience with all of my RWD cars, all have been high performance.
Fuel economy is low but, then again I have always owned performance cars where low-mid-20's mpg has been the norm. What I've found is that as technology has progressed, large engines (such as the M156) are about as fuel efficient as smaller engines were 8-10yrs ago and to be honest, not far away from some newer performance turbo engines than that. The MPG in this is not far off what you get in the Focus ST2/3, Impreza WRX or Mitsi Lancer Evolution so, it's not like we're clutching at a 10mpg average or anything.
Tyres? Again I've always been in this boat. They're only expensive because you should never be tight when it comes to buying rubber. Therefore you're limited to premium brands, especially since you want to stick this car to the road.
Servicing is incredibly reasonable. I have a service plan but I wouldn't cry at the dealership if I had to pay. Brakes again are reasonable except for the PP composite front discs which will maybe draw a tear from your eye come time to pay up.
Reliability has been absolutely (touch wood) perfect; far less complicated than any of my turbocharged cars. The engine, by itself, is built to make raw power with no forced induction complexity needed. It just does what it does.
I smile every time I start the car, let it run down through the gears on the over run in S+ and M modes, full throttle straight line acceleration, throttle blip coming to a stop etc etc. It's deceptive to drive as you are always going faster than you feel. With the later MCT gearbox at least there is less delay between shift and power-on so, watch the speedo if you dare and there is literally no let up in the ferociousness it builds speed.
No doubt that a Porsche could hand it a thing or two in the bends but, don't believe that this is just a drifting machine as it's not. It's very taut, pointed and stable on its feet. Command it to drift and it will but it won't do it unless encouraged and is otherwise still a very well cornering car capable of doing everything.
If you ever forget how nice it sounds, drop the back seats, crack the windows open and go for it. Public reception of the car in general is positive, gestured with thumbs up, smiles and conversation sparked by genuine interest. Creep up along side a sporty car and see him drop his window, likewise for truck drivers. I also tend to get little aggression on the road and very little people trying to intimidate me.
The only bugbear I have right now is the limitations set by the weather. I really cannot wait to be able to hook the rear tyres again, with windows fully open.
Edited by 1Addicted on Wednesday 11th February 11:18
Sooooo, I'm going to come at this from another angle to everyone else.... I had a 2012 C63 Coupe, (a bit newer than what you seem to be looking at) and hated it. However, I should caveat that with the fact that I undoubtedly had a bad one. Mine spent 3 weeks out of 4 months back in the dealers while they attempted to right many of its wrongs, (I sold it after 4 months).
That said I must agree with nearly everyone here, the engine is outstanding and the low MPG is a small price to pay for the noise and power it puts out. But it also has to be said, that it is very difficult to fully deploy that awesome power unless it's dry and (or) you have new tyres + LSD.
I have also had quite a few 911s and they are like chalk and cheese. A 911 is a scalpel where as a C63 is a massive blunt hammer!
Really it will be down to what kind of car you really want, the C63 squeaks and rattles like a Morris Montego, where as 911's are, (on the whole) better built.
Then there is the customer service. I'm sure others will contradict my experience (and maybe rightly so), but I found Mercedes Customer Service to be extremely poor, where as Porsche have been amazing, one of the reasons I keep going back.
Anyway, that's a slightly differing view and hopefully will help in some way?
Good luck, they are both great cars, what a great choice to make!
That said I must agree with nearly everyone here, the engine is outstanding and the low MPG is a small price to pay for the noise and power it puts out. But it also has to be said, that it is very difficult to fully deploy that awesome power unless it's dry and (or) you have new tyres + LSD.
I have also had quite a few 911s and they are like chalk and cheese. A 911 is a scalpel where as a C63 is a massive blunt hammer!
Really it will be down to what kind of car you really want, the C63 squeaks and rattles like a Morris Montego, where as 911's are, (on the whole) better built.
Then there is the customer service. I'm sure others will contradict my experience (and maybe rightly so), but I found Mercedes Customer Service to be extremely poor, where as Porsche have been amazing, one of the reasons I keep going back.
Anyway, that's a slightly differing view and hopefully will help in some way?
Good luck, they are both great cars, what a great choice to make!
Edited by findtomdotcom on Sunday 15th February 22:33
I can't comment on customer service as I never needed it but I agree a little on build quality as it's a known issue that the W204 dash has a tendency to rattle. Outside of that though my car was perfect for the 2 years.
With regard putting the power down in the dry I was always mighty impressed that I could unleash all 451 ponies without any traction issues and my car didn't have an LSD. My new 640d has much larger rear tyres and breaks traction very easy in comparison. However on cold and wet roads you're right and during the winter months it can be quite frustrating having all that power on tap and have to be careful about overtaking especially on cambered roads. I kinda of liked the challenge (as I did in my Honda S2000's), but when you need to make decent progress it can frustrate.
I guess a new C63S 4Matic would be a sensational machine if they ever do one
With regard putting the power down in the dry I was always mighty impressed that I could unleash all 451 ponies without any traction issues and my car didn't have an LSD. My new 640d has much larger rear tyres and breaks traction very easy in comparison. However on cold and wet roads you're right and during the winter months it can be quite frustrating having all that power on tap and have to be careful about overtaking especially on cambered roads. I kinda of liked the challenge (as I did in my Honda S2000's), but when you need to make decent progress it can frustrate.
I guess a new C63S 4Matic would be a sensational machine if they ever do one
findtomdotcom said:
Then there is the customer service. I'm sure others will contradict my experience (and maybe rightly so), but I found Mercedes Customer Service to be extremely poor, where as Porsche have been amazing, one of the reasons I keep going back.
I met a dealer last Sunday who wouldn't let me test as didn't have my paper counterpart with me (my fault) and then said he would contact me on Monday to re-book. Never heard back despite an email and leaving a further two messages. Not impressed.Edited by findtomdotcom on Sunday 15th February 22:33
Inevitably there will be a few dogs in every batch, and dealers for that matter too.
What I can't argue with is the Winter performance of this car, or lack of it
. I've honestly never driven a car that is limited so badly by cold and/or wet roads; it needs at least another 30mm of tyre in the back to cope with the way the engine is allowed to, like you say, act like a sledgehammer.
This isn't to say it's awful, but dry weather performance vs. wet weather performance are miles apart however, even then it can still obliterate most things despite the traction control holding you back. When it does sure-foot itself on a wet road, I can say that it handles the water very well, such as it demonstrated yesterday during a little tussle but the initial, brutal acceleration is somewhat dumbed down compared to a dry day, which is half the fun in leaving someone for dead.
What I can't argue with is the Winter performance of this car, or lack of it
. I've honestly never driven a car that is limited so badly by cold and/or wet roads; it needs at least another 30mm of tyre in the back to cope with the way the engine is allowed to, like you say, act like a sledgehammer. This isn't to say it's awful, but dry weather performance vs. wet weather performance are miles apart however, even then it can still obliterate most things despite the traction control holding you back. When it does sure-foot itself on a wet road, I can say that it handles the water very well, such as it demonstrated yesterday during a little tussle but the initial, brutal acceleration is somewhat dumbed down compared to a dry day, which is half the fun in leaving someone for dead.
PompeyPaul said:
I met a dealer last Sunday who wouldn't let me test as didn't have my paper counterpart with me (my fault) and then said he would contact me on Monday to re-book. Never heard back despite an email and leaving a further two messages. Not impressed.
Dealers are a pain, I tried getting a test in an A45 and despite confirming several times, when I arrived there was no car, and the salesman I'd been speaking to wasn't even working that day!What are you looking at buying?
dealer wise I can definitely recommend the team at brooklands where I got mine. They are amazing. Plus you get to test drive on a (little) track :-)
That was after someone walked into the showroom and bought the first car i was talking to them about, doh! (I ended up with a newer edition 125 so i was not too fussed about that!)
That day just before Christmas, that I know of, mercedes benz retail group sold 4 c63s!!
That was after someone walked into the showroom and bought the first car i was talking to them about, doh! (I ended up with a newer edition 125 so i was not too fussed about that!)
That day just before Christmas, that I know of, mercedes benz retail group sold 4 c63s!!
Your A45 AMG story reminded me of when I tried to drive an A45.
On one of my many trips back to Mercedes to have the faults with my C63 fixed, I asked to drive/borrow an A45 AMG instead of the nondescript saloon they had booked me. They didn't want to give me an AMG (even though I owned an AMG and it was broken)..... Long story short, on the day I went to drop off my car and pick up their loan car, it turned out the loan car had an electrical issue. The A45 was just sat outside looking at me doing nothing, but Mercedes wouldn't swap the now U/S loan car for the A45. In the end I had to wait while they fixed the loan car. At this point I wanted to swap the C63 and might have considered an A45.
That was the final straw that sent me back to Porsche. I did a 911 deal on Monday morning.....
On one of my many trips back to Mercedes to have the faults with my C63 fixed, I asked to drive/borrow an A45 AMG instead of the nondescript saloon they had booked me. They didn't want to give me an AMG (even though I owned an AMG and it was broken)..... Long story short, on the day I went to drop off my car and pick up their loan car, it turned out the loan car had an electrical issue. The A45 was just sat outside looking at me doing nothing, but Mercedes wouldn't swap the now U/S loan car for the A45. In the end I had to wait while they fixed the loan car. At this point I wanted to swap the C63 and might have considered an A45.
That was the final straw that sent me back to Porsche. I did a 911 deal on Monday morning.....
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