Mercedes 190E Cosworth 2.5 16 valve
Discussion
Hi, just seen a 190E Cosworth 2.5 16 valve manual for a temptingly low 2500 on ebay. I'm very tempted, but will it be the best deal ever, or the biggest mistake ever ? Also why hasn't it been bid to past 5 or 6k after languishing for a full 9 days ? Ok, it's not concours, but looks to be a solid daily driver with MOT. All thoughts appreciated.
Bargain or disaster>
The main way it would be a disaster is if it's been messed about with a lot. If it's original, been nicely looked after, yet ratty, that's not a problem.
It's if it's been fiddled with a lot, had the injection mucked up, that sort of thing, it's a problem. That stuff is all difficult and expensive to put right.
Obviously any severe rust is going to cost - but will mostly go onto the car as value.
I just sold a 1990 one for 2400, it was my daily driver owned it for 10 years, 100% original. Short journeys, trips across Europe, London commuting. Epic cars and so reliable. In hindsight could have got more perhaps, I let the first guy have it. 150k miles. Some worsening bits of rust and small tear in drivers seat. Imperfect paint and shut lines in a couple of places.
The main way it would be a disaster is if it's been messed about with a lot. If it's original, been nicely looked after, yet ratty, that's not a problem.
It's if it's been fiddled with a lot, had the injection mucked up, that sort of thing, it's a problem. That stuff is all difficult and expensive to put right.
Obviously any severe rust is going to cost - but will mostly go onto the car as value.
I just sold a 1990 one for 2400, it was my daily driver owned it for 10 years, 100% original. Short journeys, trips across Europe, London commuting. Epic cars and so reliable. In hindsight could have got more perhaps, I let the first guy have it. 150k miles. Some worsening bits of rust and small tear in drivers seat. Imperfect paint and shut lines in a couple of places.
I keep an eye on these cars because I'd quite like one, can't justify one at the moment and feel that they're about to catch on. There is a wide range of prices but I am not convinced that quality follows price. Plenty of people seem to be offering sheds for £11,000 and, equally, plenty of of people are offering solid cars at about £4,500.
While £3,000 is bottom of the pricing range, it is hard to see what disaster might befall you, given the lack of quality in the higher-priced offerings. Most seem to have slightly worn or saggy trim. Most seem to have shagged out suspension. Most have tired bodywork. None is in fresh mechanical condition. The 190s are pretty resistant to rot unless a car has been damaged and badly repaired. Overhauling the running gear is pretty cheap and straight forward. Event the self-levelling rear suspension is simple (if there is a problem, it is nearly always the spheres).
So long as you are not reckless, I wouldn't be too concerned about going in at the cheaper end of the market on one of these.
While £3,000 is bottom of the pricing range, it is hard to see what disaster might befall you, given the lack of quality in the higher-priced offerings. Most seem to have slightly worn or saggy trim. Most seem to have shagged out suspension. Most have tired bodywork. None is in fresh mechanical condition. The 190s are pretty resistant to rot unless a car has been damaged and badly repaired. Overhauling the running gear is pretty cheap and straight forward. Event the self-levelling rear suspension is simple (if there is a problem, it is nearly always the spheres).
So long as you are not reckless, I wouldn't be too concerned about going in at the cheaper end of the market on one of these.
As an ex owner of both 'plain' 190 and Cosworth, I'll add that in my experience, because of the bodykit, the Coswortn suffered more corrosion. And we all know that the chain replacement isn't cheap. I have seen cars that have been well past the 100k mile change interval with no evidence the work has been done.
If I were paying £11k, I'd want to find a sub 70k mile car with few owners. With that provenance, it'd be worth buying regardless of body and engine condition. But I realise these are difficult to find nowadays.
I can only see these going up. They're iconic, as good as an E30 M3 but a fraction of the price.
I paid a grand for my 98k mile 1 owner 2.3 7 years ago and would still have it if it were not for the idiot who wrote it off.
If I were paying £11k, I'd want to find a sub 70k mile car with few owners. With that provenance, it'd be worth buying regardless of body and engine condition. But I realise these are difficult to find nowadays.
I can only see these going up. They're iconic, as good as an E30 M3 but a fraction of the price.
I paid a grand for my 98k mile 1 owner 2.3 7 years ago and would still have it if it were not for the idiot who wrote it off.
2.5-16 owner here daytona. I have owned mine for three years and 40k miles and to be honest I have barely touched the engine apart from treating it to 5k oil changes. The 2.5 is a duplex chain arrangement. My investment has gone into restoring the jacking points, renewing the SLS spheres and so too all of the bushings and suspension wishbones. The car is now on 165k miles and still achieved its 148mph top speed on an autobahn last year. Good luck!
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