300D 124 or 210
Discussion
955matt said:
Are the non turbo 124 300d that slow?
Depends what your idea of slow is... if it's being overtaking by grans on mobility scooters at the lights then yes, they are slow. But once moving they're fine. There's a lot of car and not a huge amount of horsepower/torque there (thanks lazy MB for not engineering the turbo for RHD), and the auto transmission makes for a relaxed drive. The earlier 12v 300Ds are slow, the later 24v are quicker, but you still need to rev them (which they like) to get the performance. You can tweak the linkages/disable EGR/make sure the fuel system is in good order to get them feeling a bit more lively too. At A-road/Motorway speeds they'll keep up with 'moderns' fine, if not better than a lot of new cars out there I find.
I run mine of part veg in summer, with no mods.
I wouldn't buy a 210, imho they're ugly and poorly made from what I've experienced of them. But you will get more power, a bit better fuel economy and cheaper to buy a decent one than a decent 124.
Edited by chazola on Wednesday 24th June 10:33
I learned to drive in a w124 300 D and I currently drive 30,000miles a year in my w124 E300 diesel.
They are not fast cars by any stretch of the imagination. Nor are they particularly slow. Unlike turbo diesels, these cars are gutless at low revs but surprisingly strong higher up the rev range. Again, unlike turbo diesels, they have a high rev limit: maximum power (136bhp) in my 24v is between 4,600 and 5,000rpm and it will spin on to 5,400rpm. This means they do not leap off the line but, by contrast, they are fine on the open road. I have seen 125mph on my car's undoubtedly optimistic speedo.
I have never found my car to be dangerously slow or its lack of acceleration to be holding me up. I never find myself waiting ages at busy junction for a suitably large gap, for instance. It will do 60 in 13.5 seconds, even if the first 20mph feel like they're taking forever. The one situation in which I find it wanting is on steepish A road gradients. It will hold pretty much any gradient at 85mph. But the same gradient at 75mph it will not hold in top gear. The problem is, third only goes to 75mph. So if you start at a modest speed, sometimes speed tails off towards the top of a hill; whereas if you attack it with verve there is no problem! The other thing that is tedious is a route with lots of roundabouts. Constantly speeding up after slowing down is a pain, really.
Most of these cars are utterly shagged out. The engines are really very strong. I found changing the timing chain made a noticeable difference to my very high mileage example. There was so much slack in the old chain that it was running way out of time. With the new chain it felt noticeably perkier.
The car is great around town, very refined, very comfortable and the narrow body shell combined with super-tight turning circle make it very easy to use. The car is great on the motorway where it happily sits at 90mph and 4,000rpm all day long. It is not especially economical. The worst I get is about 31mpg; usually it gives about 33mpg; on one run I had 39mpg. They are reputed to be capable of running on pretty much anything, so vegetable oil will not be a problem.
Early w210s are normally aspirated. Later cars have the turbodiesel and the facelift cars have the CDI engine. They have a reputation for bad rust. The turbo diesels are much faster and no less economical; if anything they are more economical. The w210 is also much, much more refined than the w124 in terms of NVH. This one looks nice for £3k: http://www.mtsv.co.uk/info/W201E300TDTR.htm
They are not fast cars by any stretch of the imagination. Nor are they particularly slow. Unlike turbo diesels, these cars are gutless at low revs but surprisingly strong higher up the rev range. Again, unlike turbo diesels, they have a high rev limit: maximum power (136bhp) in my 24v is between 4,600 and 5,000rpm and it will spin on to 5,400rpm. This means they do not leap off the line but, by contrast, they are fine on the open road. I have seen 125mph on my car's undoubtedly optimistic speedo.
I have never found my car to be dangerously slow or its lack of acceleration to be holding me up. I never find myself waiting ages at busy junction for a suitably large gap, for instance. It will do 60 in 13.5 seconds, even if the first 20mph feel like they're taking forever. The one situation in which I find it wanting is on steepish A road gradients. It will hold pretty much any gradient at 85mph. But the same gradient at 75mph it will not hold in top gear. The problem is, third only goes to 75mph. So if you start at a modest speed, sometimes speed tails off towards the top of a hill; whereas if you attack it with verve there is no problem! The other thing that is tedious is a route with lots of roundabouts. Constantly speeding up after slowing down is a pain, really.
Most of these cars are utterly shagged out. The engines are really very strong. I found changing the timing chain made a noticeable difference to my very high mileage example. There was so much slack in the old chain that it was running way out of time. With the new chain it felt noticeably perkier.
The car is great around town, very refined, very comfortable and the narrow body shell combined with super-tight turning circle make it very easy to use. The car is great on the motorway where it happily sits at 90mph and 4,000rpm all day long. It is not especially economical. The worst I get is about 31mpg; usually it gives about 33mpg; on one run I had 39mpg. They are reputed to be capable of running on pretty much anything, so vegetable oil will not be a problem.
Early w210s are normally aspirated. Later cars have the turbodiesel and the facelift cars have the CDI engine. They have a reputation for bad rust. The turbo diesels are much faster and no less economical; if anything they are more economical. The w210 is also much, much more refined than the w124 in terms of NVH. This one looks nice for £3k: http://www.mtsv.co.uk/info/W201E300TDTR.htm
The W210 300TD will be much faster and use no more fuel than a W124 300D. I also think it might be more tolerant of biodiesel / veggie oil than the later common rail CDI, as well as being a mroe robust and reliable engine generally.
Obviously rust is a big issue so if you can find a rust free one, which the MTSV car might well be, then the first priority is going to be throughly rustproofing everything in sight with something better than just Waxoyl, maybe a trip to Rustbuster.
The 12 valve W124 300D was tested by Autocar in the late '80s and achieved a 0-60mph time of 15.5 seconds with an auto 'box and was criticised for being inconveniently slow in traffic even then.
The multi-valves carry a price premium as you have noticed, and good W124 estates are fairly pricy to begin with, so I'd go for a good W210 instead.
Obviously rust is a big issue so if you can find a rust free one, which the MTSV car might well be, then the first priority is going to be throughly rustproofing everything in sight with something better than just Waxoyl, maybe a trip to Rustbuster.
The 12 valve W124 300D was tested by Autocar in the late '80s and achieved a 0-60mph time of 15.5 seconds with an auto 'box and was criticised for being inconveniently slow in traffic even then.
The multi-valves carry a price premium as you have noticed, and good W124 estates are fairly pricy to begin with, so I'd go for a good W210 instead.
Three years now. I kept a blog about doing it up here. http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
It's a great car. There are 450 miles ahead of it today and, as always, I am looking forward to them.
It's a great car. There are 450 miles ahead of it today and, as always, I am looking forward to them.
V12 AMG said:
r129sl said:
Pah! Stuff and nonsense!
It's all relative I guess. I've become accustomed to 400lb/ft in my daily driver. I rarely use all of it, but on the odd occasion it is nice to have.
Just out of interest does any want a W123 200D with full taxi spec for €9500, it's only done 1.3million kms so just run in! Sadly this would be very high up on my wish list of top cars, but then I ran several Citroen Dyane's in the 80's.
http://tinyurl.com/pxo4tgv taxi link
http://tinyurl.com/pxo4tgv taxi link
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