W202 C Class - Any experiences
Discussion
Although I'm currently driving around in a BMW E36, after failing to find a decent 190E to buy, I'm still keen on the idea of a small automatic Merc in the future.
I realise there's a lot of love on here for the 190, and it's probably better built than the C class, but has anyone got any ownership experiences of the W202 C class?
I briefly test drove a couple a few years ago and quite liked the driving feel - comfy but reasonably agile - and obviously they have more engine choices than the 190 and a 5-speed auto.
Are they all rust prone? Is there any quality / rustproofing difference between the early and later cars? What's the best engine - straight six or V6?
Would like to hear from anyone who has experience of these.
I realise there's a lot of love on here for the 190, and it's probably better built than the C class, but has anyone got any ownership experiences of the W202 C class?
I briefly test drove a couple a few years ago and quite liked the driving feel - comfy but reasonably agile - and obviously they have more engine choices than the 190 and a 5-speed auto.
Are they all rust prone? Is there any quality / rustproofing difference between the early and later cars? What's the best engine - straight six or V6?
Would like to hear from anyone who has experience of these.
There's not much difference between an early W202 and a 190 (w201) in terms of build quality, but later cars seem to have a propensity to rust more.
All are old, old cars, and few a cherished, so finding a non-AMG (or even an AMG!) car which is in really good condition will be tricky. Straight 6 engines (M104) have issues which will be easy to research on the mercedes forums. They are chiefly wiring looms and oil leaks, and HG issues. All will be disproportionately costly to fix. Immobilisers on cars with red and green lights on the rear-view mirror and driver's door handle can get temperamental, and only Mercedes will supply the codes to fix them, so will render the car uneconomic to repair.
I think the (scarce) 230K supercharged estate would be an interesting vehicle.
All are old, old cars, and few a cherished, so finding a non-AMG (or even an AMG!) car which is in really good condition will be tricky. Straight 6 engines (M104) have issues which will be easy to research on the mercedes forums. They are chiefly wiring looms and oil leaks, and HG issues. All will be disproportionately costly to fix. Immobilisers on cars with red and green lights on the rear-view mirror and driver's door handle can get temperamental, and only Mercedes will supply the codes to fix them, so will render the car uneconomic to repair.
I think the (scarce) 230K supercharged estate would be an interesting vehicle.
Cheers, I knew about the head gasket and wiring loom issues on the earlier straight six so I'm guessing a V6 would be a better buy, as well as being newer and available with the 5-speed autobox.
I guess this means more likelihood of rust though, being a later car (although also newer)?
Judging by the number of good 190s that keep surfacing I'm guessing there must be some low mileage, garaged W202s out there in the hands of retirees. They just don't seem to pop up for sale very often!
I guess this means more likelihood of rust though, being a later car (although also newer)?
Judging by the number of good 190s that keep surfacing I'm guessing there must be some low mileage, garaged W202s out there in the hands of retirees. They just don't seem to pop up for sale very often!
I like them, and have had a few, mainly because they aren't the normal default BMW option.
I agree with what has been said, the earlier ones have better metal/paint, so less rust.
First one was a '95 C36 that was just about rust free, mechanically excellent, but had issues with the engine bay wiring.
2nd a C250 diesel, it had done near enough 200,000 miles, was rusty and the engine had lost power, but it did have a genuine AMG C43 spec body kit and 190 EVO2 wheels so I broke it for spares!
The interior was still mint, even at that mileage.
I now have a '00 C43 estate that is about to get every bolt on panel replaced due to rust!
I ended up buying a '97 C180 estate that had a blown head gasket, but rust free panels, ready for the C43, a bargain at £180!
I've also just bought a manual '97 C230 Kompressor, complete with welded diff, ready for track abuse!
It is solid, but does have a bit of surface rust in a couple of places.
So basically, there are rusty ones and mint ones, good engines and bad engines, so not much help really!
I agree with what has been said, the earlier ones have better metal/paint, so less rust.
First one was a '95 C36 that was just about rust free, mechanically excellent, but had issues with the engine bay wiring.
2nd a C250 diesel, it had done near enough 200,000 miles, was rusty and the engine had lost power, but it did have a genuine AMG C43 spec body kit and 190 EVO2 wheels so I broke it for spares!
The interior was still mint, even at that mileage.
I now have a '00 C43 estate that is about to get every bolt on panel replaced due to rust!
I ended up buying a '97 C180 estate that had a blown head gasket, but rust free panels, ready for the C43, a bargain at £180!
I've also just bought a manual '97 C230 Kompressor, complete with welded diff, ready for track abuse!
It is solid, but does have a bit of surface rust in a couple of places.
So basically, there are rusty ones and mint ones, good engines and bad engines, so not much help really!
mickyveloce said:
There's not much difference between an early W202 and a 190 (w201) in terms of build quality, but later cars seem to have a propensity to rust more.
Having had both from new, I'd say the build quality of the 201 is superior. In retrospect, I should not have changed the 201 for 202.
IanA2 said:
Having had both from new, I'd say the build quality of the 201 is superior. In retrospect, I should not have changed the 201 for 202.
Everything I've heard leads me to believe that the 190 is one of the best-built Mercedes ever, perhaps better even than the W124, so perhaps that's not surprising but, having driven both, I preferred the way the W202 drives. It feels more agile and responsive and handles pretty well given it has no sports car pretensions. Also a better choice of 6-cylinder engines and gearboxes (5-speed auto) than the 190.The interiors look pretty tacky compared to the 190 though.
I guess by the time I've become fed up with my E36 BMW and want to buy a Merc, there will only be 'good' examples of the W202 around as the rest wil have died from rust or neglect;)
As you know, I run a 190. And I did 70,000miles in a 1998 C240 sport (I know, I know, but I didn't then) back in the day. It was a faithful servant, smooth, fast (ish), solid and reliable.
The build quality of the C240 was not a patch on that of the 190. Nor to my recollection were the agility and roadability. I find my little 190 extraordinarily nimble. But then mine is a bobby basic super light one, barely 1,200kg. I quite liked the dash of the C240 but the plastics were not nearly of the same grade.
The 202 was rapturously received by the motoring press. I particularly recall Georg Kacher in Car magazine wetting his pants with enthusiasm for a C280 Elegance. It was a fine thing, with red cloth upholstery, zebrano trim and a full specification.
I think an early, pre-facelift car in an "interesting" spec, Classic or Elegance, C280, has potential to be a satisfying purchase. But by the time the 202 took ahold in the UK market place, nobody was ordering interesting specs.
ETA: and the w202 definitely hasn't caught on yet, price-wise.
The build quality of the C240 was not a patch on that of the 190. Nor to my recollection were the agility and roadability. I find my little 190 extraordinarily nimble. But then mine is a bobby basic super light one, barely 1,200kg. I quite liked the dash of the C240 but the plastics were not nearly of the same grade.
The 202 was rapturously received by the motoring press. I particularly recall Georg Kacher in Car magazine wetting his pants with enthusiasm for a C280 Elegance. It was a fine thing, with red cloth upholstery, zebrano trim and a full specification.
I think an early, pre-facelift car in an "interesting" spec, Classic or Elegance, C280, has potential to be a satisfying purchase. But by the time the 202 took ahold in the UK market place, nobody was ordering interesting specs.
ETA: and the w202 definitely hasn't caught on yet, price-wise.
Edited by r129sl on Tuesday 28th July 20:18
Thanks for the feedback R129SL.
I did actually test drive an early C280 Elegance at MTSV, but it had a light grey interior and cloth seats that looked incredibly cheap and tacky and would have disgraced a Vauxhall Vectra, so I couldn't face buying it. I later test drove a C240 at the same dealer, which had a more tolerable blue cloth interior but was white and also down on power (dodgy MAF, it transpired), plus I thought 'Why buy a 240 when a 280 is what you want?' so another non-purchase.
I'd actually quite like the later V6 as apparently it has more low-to-mid range than the M104, but that means buying a later car which I gather might be even more shoddily built and rustproofed than the earlier models.
I like the style, minimalism and quality of the 190, but am not so keen on the rather poor economy of the 2.0 petrol for the performance and the low top gear of the 4-speed auto, as most of my mileage is on motorways.
I did actually test drive an early C280 Elegance at MTSV, but it had a light grey interior and cloth seats that looked incredibly cheap and tacky and would have disgraced a Vauxhall Vectra, so I couldn't face buying it. I later test drove a C240 at the same dealer, which had a more tolerable blue cloth interior but was white and also down on power (dodgy MAF, it transpired), plus I thought 'Why buy a 240 when a 280 is what you want?' so another non-purchase.
I'd actually quite like the later V6 as apparently it has more low-to-mid range than the M104, but that means buying a later car which I gather might be even more shoddily built and rustproofed than the earlier models.
I like the style, minimalism and quality of the 190, but am not so keen on the rather poor economy of the 2.0 petrol for the performance and the low top gear of the 4-speed auto, as most of my mileage is on motorways.
BGarside said:
I'd actually quite like the later V6 as apparently it has more low-to-mid range than the M104, but that means buying a later car which I gather might be even more shoddily built and rustproofed than the earlier models.
I wouldn't worry about that. The M104 has plenty enough torque to haul the W202 around.The gearbox fitted makes much more of a difference to the driving experience IMO.
The early cars with the 722.3/722.4 4 speed feel like they have a lot of mid-range but do rev high on the motorway.
The later cars with the 722.6 electronic 5 speed have a taller final gear and cruise well but importantly the shifting is quite a bit faster in these so if really pressing on through the gears these feel noticeably quicker.
BGarside said:
Thanks for the feedback R129SL.
I did actually test drive an early C280 Elegance at MTSV, but it had a light grey interior and cloth seats that looked incredibly cheap and tacky and would have disgraced a Vauxhall Vectra, so I couldn't face buying it. I later test drove a C240 at the same dealer, which had a more tolerable blue cloth interior but was white and also down on power (dodgy MAF, it transpired), plus I thought 'Why buy a 240 when a 280 is what you want?' so another non-purchase.
I'd actually quite like the later V6 as apparently it has more low-to-mid range than the M104, but that means buying a later car which I gather might be even more shoddily built and rustproofed than the earlier models.
I like the style, minimalism and quality of the 190, but am not so keen on the rather poor economy of the 2.0 petrol for the performance and the low top gear of the 4-speed auto, as most of my mileage is on motorways.
According to my Road Trip app, my 190 2.0 carb has given 31.45mpg over the last 2,000miles. You'll never get that out of a C240 or C280. My C240 struggled to give 23mpg. The performance and smoothness of the 6-cylinder C, especially the V6, are of course in a different league. Get the right one and you will have a satisfying car for buttons money. Remember Derin's?I did actually test drive an early C280 Elegance at MTSV, but it had a light grey interior and cloth seats that looked incredibly cheap and tacky and would have disgraced a Vauxhall Vectra, so I couldn't face buying it. I later test drove a C240 at the same dealer, which had a more tolerable blue cloth interior but was white and also down on power (dodgy MAF, it transpired), plus I thought 'Why buy a 240 when a 280 is what you want?' so another non-purchase.
I'd actually quite like the later V6 as apparently it has more low-to-mid range than the M104, but that means buying a later car which I gather might be even more shoddily built and rustproofed than the earlier models.
I like the style, minimalism and quality of the 190, but am not so keen on the rather poor economy of the 2.0 petrol for the performance and the low top gear of the 4-speed auto, as most of my mileage is on motorways.
http://www.bmwclassics.co.uk/gallery/index.php?spg...
(Sorry for the picture and bandwidth theft, Derin.)
r129sl said:
According to my Road Trip app, my 190 2.0 carb has given 31.45mpg over the last 2,000miles. You'll never get that out of a C240 or C280. My C240 struggled to give 23mpg. The performance and smoothness of the 6-cylinder C, especially the V6, are of course in a different league. Get the right one and you will have a satisfying car for buttons money. Remember Derin's?
http://www.bmwclassics.co.uk/gallery/index.php?spg...
(Sorry for the picture and bandwidth theft, Derin.)
Yes, it was a nice one but again a 240!!http://www.bmwclassics.co.uk/gallery/index.php?spg...
(Sorry for the picture and bandwidth theft, Derin.)
23mpg is a fair bit worse than I imagined. Mark Taylor suggested high 20s was achievable in the M104-equipped C280 I test drove at MTSV, which he was using as his own car at the time.
My current early E36 325i (manual) manages 35mpg on a motorway run at 75-80, despite similarly low top gearing to the 722.4 Mercedes auto 'box, so I guess if I eventually get a W202 it'll be going in for an LPG conversion, something that is at least easier to achieve on the later EFI cars than the older KE-Jetronic models!
There's a smoke silver m104 C280 advertised for sale in the back of the latest (Autumn 2015) Classic Mercedes Enthusiast mag. 36,000miles, too. But there's something's weird about it as there are two ads for the same car with different prices.
I'd be tempted by a C240 then do an engine transplant for a 3.2 or 3.7 M112 motor: shouldn't be difficult or expensive.
Edited to correct typo.
I'd be tempted by a C240 then do an engine transplant for a 3.2 or 3.7 M112 motor: shouldn't be difficult or expensive.
Edited to correct typo.
Edited by r129sl on Monday 10th August 21:53
r129sl said:
There's a smoke silver m14 C280 advertised for sale in the back of the latest (Autumn 2015) Classic Mercedes Enthusiast mag. 36,000miles, too. But there's something's weird about it as there are two ads for the same car with different prices.
I'd be tempted by a C240 then do an engine transplant for a 3.2 or 3.7 M112 motor: shouldn't be difficult or expensive.
Save a lot of time an money and get an old Lexus GS430 I'd be tempted by a C240 then do an engine transplant for a 3.2 or 3.7 M112 motor: shouldn't be difficult or expensive.
I'm more likely to get categorised as an old duffer in a W202. They mostly seem to be driven by old men.
The W202 is fairly bland. I prefer the style and size of the 190 but the fuel economy of the petrols isn't great for the power outputs and I don't think I could live with the low gearing on the motorways. The W202 is a bit more usable.
I guess the Lexus is built the way Mercedes used to build their cars back in the '80s and '90s. Just too big and too juicy for me to run as an only car.
The W202 is fairly bland. I prefer the style and size of the 190 but the fuel economy of the petrols isn't great for the power outputs and I don't think I could live with the low gearing on the motorways. The W202 is a bit more usable.
I guess the Lexus is built the way Mercedes used to build their cars back in the '80s and '90s. Just too big and too juicy for me to run as an only car.
BGarside said:
I'm more likely to get categorised as an old duffer in a W202. They mostly seem to be driven by old men.
The W202 is fairly bland. I prefer the style and size of the 190 but the fuel economy of the petrols isn't great for the power outputs and I don't think I could live with the low gearing on the motorways. The W202 is a bit more usable.
I guess the Lexus is built the way Mercedes used to build their cars back in the '80s and '90s. Just too big and too juicy for me to run as an only car.
1. AgreedThe W202 is fairly bland. I prefer the style and size of the 190 but the fuel economy of the petrols isn't great for the power outputs and I don't think I could live with the low gearing on the motorways. The W202 is a bit more usable.
I guess the Lexus is built the way Mercedes used to build their cars back in the '80s and '90s. Just too big and too juicy for me to run as an only car.
2. Definitely agreed
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