C63 Used Prices
Discussion
Two things a bit odd:
1. There appears to be some kind of weird 'price compression' going on. Example, there are nice looking 13 plate cars for sale with circa 20k miles asking around £32k. Seems about right. But there are other, 61 and 12 plate cars with 50k miles asking £29k. Who in their right mind would lay out 29 large on a 4 year old 50k mile car when, for a extra £3k, they could buy a car a year younger with only just over a third of the miles ? The 12 plate car with 50k miles should be £10k cheaper surely ? £4k for being a year older and £2k for every extra 10k miles ?
2. Private sellers seem to think they can expect to get retail prices. So they ask the same a dealers. Or, in some cases, more. This isn't just C63's. You expect to pay maybe 20% more from a dealer don't you ? Or 20% less private ? Private sale carries risk. Who pays £30k to a stranger ? If I'm paying £30k either way I may as well use a (reputable) dealer. My car would retail at £11,000 so I'd be asking £9,000 and hope to get £8,500. Although will almost certainly p/x (something else you can't do if buying private!)
OC
1. There appears to be some kind of weird 'price compression' going on. Example, there are nice looking 13 plate cars for sale with circa 20k miles asking around £32k. Seems about right. But there are other, 61 and 12 plate cars with 50k miles asking £29k. Who in their right mind would lay out 29 large on a 4 year old 50k mile car when, for a extra £3k, they could buy a car a year younger with only just over a third of the miles ? The 12 plate car with 50k miles should be £10k cheaper surely ? £4k for being a year older and £2k for every extra 10k miles ?
2. Private sellers seem to think they can expect to get retail prices. So they ask the same a dealers. Or, in some cases, more. This isn't just C63's. You expect to pay maybe 20% more from a dealer don't you ? Or 20% less private ? Private sale carries risk. Who pays £30k to a stranger ? If I'm paying £30k either way I may as well use a (reputable) dealer. My car would retail at £11,000 so I'd be asking £9,000 and hope to get £8,500. Although will almost certainly p/x (something else you can't do if buying private!)
OC
Edited by OddCat on Monday 17th October 20:41
I assume you are looking to buy? Always makes me chuckle when buyers drip at high prices.
Anyway:
Are dealers more reputable than good private owners? Hell no!!! Dealers are the ones that get caught out fitting shoddy or non matching tyres. Dealers are the ones failing to change pads / discs prior to sale, despite knowing full well that a few weeks or months into the ownership they'll need changing. Dealers are the ones buying the cars at stupidly low prices and making tonnes on mark up. Main dealers are usually worse than small independents.
Reason: Main dealers have a reputation based on their advertising. You can read as many bad reviews as you like online and still walk into a main dealer and be bowled over by the flashy lights and big glass windows.
Perks of a dealer purchase: Room to negotiate warranty. Negotiate servicing. Negotiate repairs and parts. But, the more you negotiate the less you can discount. You also have the ability to return the car within reason and timings.
Private sellers, a bit like small independents, have to try harder to sell these cars for the money they are asking. You'll be more likely to find good tyres, new brakes, a fresh service and mot and decent body condition on a nice private sale car than you will on a low priced main dealer example. That cheap dealer car will likely have been a previously failed private sale that ended up as a px or auction job. Also, a good private sale or independent will have a good amount of paperwork with it. A main dealer won't give you this unless it's main dealer related. Main dealers ain't all that when it comes to servicing so I'd be looking at that with a sceptical eye!
As for the perks of a private sale: You will get a proper account of the cars life. You can test drive properly and not just pootle along the allocated route. You can haggle the price based on condition, but a good car is a good car. You can also return the car if you are not happy thanks to modern laws.
So, why is it you want a private sale to be cheaper again?
Anyway:
Are dealers more reputable than good private owners? Hell no!!! Dealers are the ones that get caught out fitting shoddy or non matching tyres. Dealers are the ones failing to change pads / discs prior to sale, despite knowing full well that a few weeks or months into the ownership they'll need changing. Dealers are the ones buying the cars at stupidly low prices and making tonnes on mark up. Main dealers are usually worse than small independents.
Reason: Main dealers have a reputation based on their advertising. You can read as many bad reviews as you like online and still walk into a main dealer and be bowled over by the flashy lights and big glass windows.
Perks of a dealer purchase: Room to negotiate warranty. Negotiate servicing. Negotiate repairs and parts. But, the more you negotiate the less you can discount. You also have the ability to return the car within reason and timings.
Private sellers, a bit like small independents, have to try harder to sell these cars for the money they are asking. You'll be more likely to find good tyres, new brakes, a fresh service and mot and decent body condition on a nice private sale car than you will on a low priced main dealer example. That cheap dealer car will likely have been a previously failed private sale that ended up as a px or auction job. Also, a good private sale or independent will have a good amount of paperwork with it. A main dealer won't give you this unless it's main dealer related. Main dealers ain't all that when it comes to servicing so I'd be looking at that with a sceptical eye!
As for the perks of a private sale: You will get a proper account of the cars life. You can test drive properly and not just pootle along the allocated route. You can haggle the price based on condition, but a good car is a good car. You can also return the car if you are not happy thanks to modern laws.
So, why is it you want a private sale to be cheaper again?
Compression is due to the fact the c63s have miraculously escaped the usual AMG depreciation that takes them well below 20 grand. The new version is also out leading to downward pressure on one side and upwards on the other. Buy a 63 on condition. You can easily put a merc warranty on a private sale car.
On the compression, what I am trying to say is that, condition being similar, there should be a much greater price differential between this:
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2016...
And this:
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2016...
I take the pont about dealers but GE fact remains that they have to make a profit or they go bust. So dealer prices should / will always be 20% higher than private sale.
Yes, I'm lookin to buy but not 'drip' at prices - just understand what is going on
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2016...
And this:
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2016...
I take the pont about dealers but GE fact remains that they have to make a profit or they go bust. So dealer prices should / will always be 20% higher than private sale.
Yes, I'm lookin to buy but not 'drip' at prices - just understand what is going on
OddCat said:
On the compression, what I am trying to say is that, condition being similar, there should be a much greater price differential between this:
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2016...
And this:
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2016...
I take the pont about dealers but GE fact remains that they have to make a profit or they go bust. So dealer prices should / will always be 20% higher than private sale.
Yes, I'm lookin to buy but not 'drip' at prices - just understand what is going on
Why are you so keen that dealers are supposed to be 20% higher than private? http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2016...
And this:
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2016...
I take the pont about dealers but GE fact remains that they have to make a profit or they go bust. So dealer prices should / will always be 20% higher than private sale.
Yes, I'm lookin to buy but not 'drip' at prices - just understand what is going on
Is that so you can haggle down to private prices and claim here you can get £6k off sticker price? Or to justify you wanting a cheap private purchase?
Prices are based on: spec, condition, mileage. You can question the numbers buy demand for spec and condition will always give a strong sale price due to demand.
ecain63 said:
Why are you so keen that dealers are supposed to be 20% higher than private?
Is that so you can haggle down to private prices and claim here you can get £6k off sticker price? Or to justify you wanting a cheap private purchase?
No intention of trying to haggle dealers down to private prices. Because I appreciate that there is up to a 20% difference between retail and private. The issue is private sellers thinking they can ask the same as retail sellers. Do WBAC offer the same money for cars as dealers are asking for similar cars on their forecourts. Of course they don't. They offer private car sale prices. Is that so you can haggle down to private prices and claim here you can get £6k off sticker price? Or to justify you wanting a cheap private purchase?
If it is as immaculate as the ad says, I'd happily pay £32k for the red one above. But I wouldn't pay £29k for the white one even if it, too, is immaculate. I reckon the differential between these two cars should be at least £8k and maybe £10k just based on age and mileage.
Perhaps I've confused the issue here by introducing two completely different issues in one thread ?
1. Price compression (like the red and white ones above) and
2. trade vs private price differentials
PS Edited to say, if I did buy the red one for £32k, if I then needed for some reason to sell it in 3 months time I'd expect only to be able to get £25k for it as a private sale (accepting that I paid a 20% premium for buying from a dealer which evaporates the moment I drive it away)
Edited by OddCat on Tuesday 18th October 11:59
OddCat said:
No intention of trying to haggle dealers down to private prices. Because I appreciate that there is up to a 20% difference between retail and private. The issue is private sellers thinking they can ask the same as retail sellers. Do WBAC offer the same money for cars as dealers are asking for similar cars on their forecourts. Of course they don't. They offer private car sale prices.
If it is as immaculate as the ad says, I'd happily pay £32k for the red one above. But I wouldn't pay £29k for the white one even if it, too, is immaculate. I reckon the differential between these two cars should be at least £8k and maybe £10k just based on age and mileage.
Perhaps I've confused the issue here by introducing two completely different issues in one thread ?
1. Price compression (like the red and white ones above) and
2. trade vs private price differentials
PS Edited to say, if I did buy the red one for £32k, if I then needed for some reason to sell it in 3 months time I'd expect only to be able to get £25k for it as a private sale (accepting that I paid a 20% premium for buying from a dealer which evaporates the moment I drive it away)
You're talking so much nonsense that I wonder if you're being serious. 25k for the red car as a private sale 3 months later?#If it is as immaculate as the ad says, I'd happily pay £32k for the red one above. But I wouldn't pay £29k for the white one even if it, too, is immaculate. I reckon the differential between these two cars should be at least £8k and maybe £10k just based on age and mileage.
Perhaps I've confused the issue here by introducing two completely different issues in one thread ?
1. Price compression (like the red and white ones above) and
2. trade vs private price differentials
PS Edited to say, if I did buy the red one for £32k, if I then needed for some reason to sell it in 3 months time I'd expect only to be able to get £25k for it as a private sale (accepting that I paid a 20% premium for buying from a dealer which evaporates the moment I drive it away)
Edited by OddCat on Tuesday 18th October 11:59
You've been given a reason for the price compression that you chose to ignore. How is the red example going to be worth less than a higher mileage pre-facelift car in 3 months time?
OP you're way off C63 prices are reflected by condition mileage spec & history that's it your theories are just that the market is set by what people want to pay.
If you want to buy off a dealer & are happy then no problem enjoy your car if a private seller puts his car up for what he sees as a fair price again that's his choice.
If you want to buy off a dealer & are happy then no problem enjoy your car if a private seller puts his car up for what he sees as a fair price again that's his choice.
mikearwas said:
25k for the red car as a private sale 3 months later?
Yes. Because the £32k I will have paid included the 20% dealer premium !mikearwas said:
How is the red example going to be worth less than a higher mileage pre-facelift car in 3 months time?
Eh ? It isn't. It will be worth less privately than a higher mileage older one at a dealer because (and only because) dealer price are 20% higher. Otherwise, privately, it WOULD be worth more that an older higher mileage car.And there wasn't a pre face life Coupe was there ?
PS the substance I'm on is realism with a side order if common sense !
ZX10R NIN said:
OP you're way off C63 prices are reflected by condition mileage spec & history that's it your theories are just that the market is set by what people want to pay.
If you want to buy off a dealer & are happy then no problem enjoy your car if a private seller puts his car up for what he sees as a fair price again that's his choice.
No they are not, otherwise their would be a greater price differential between the red one and the white one (above). Unless one is priced wrongly.If you want to buy off a dealer & are happy then no problem enjoy your car if a private seller puts his car up for what he sees as a fair price again that's his choice.
Clearly, I have his all wrong and know nothing ! Not quite in a position to buy yet. If I was I'd be buying the red one.....
Edited by OddCat on Tuesday 18th October 20:11
Ok, OP.
I bought an October 2010 C63 with PPP and all the options, with 10k in on the cock in January 2013. I paid £36k from an MB Dealer.
After 18 months and another 12k miles, how much was my car sold for privately, by your sense of realism and common sense?
My current October 2012 C63 saloon with PPP and all the trimmings has 32k on the clock. What is is worth using your logic?
I bought an October 2010 C63 with PPP and all the options, with 10k in on the cock in January 2013. I paid £36k from an MB Dealer.
After 18 months and another 12k miles, how much was my car sold for privately, by your sense of realism and common sense?
My current October 2012 C63 saloon with PPP and all the trimmings has 32k on the clock. What is is worth using your logic?
h!
One thing I know is prices have go up, well on estates anyway.
I was looking last year and did a deal at Mercedes Blackpool for a grey 2013 with 19k miles on it for £27k.
But they went and sold it "by mistake" before I went up on the Saturday. (yeah right!)
18 months later and you can't get one for that price.
At the time 2010 pre facelift cars with 80k miles on them were only £3k cheaper. But it is often the same as this when it comes to performance cars. Where as a diesel car at 6 years with 80k miles might be half the price, performance cars tend to be only slightly cheaper. Probably because there is only a handful in the UK and they will sell.
So I reckon as others have said, just buy what you like, year doesn't make much difference it seems.
I was looking last year and did a deal at Mercedes Blackpool for a grey 2013 with 19k miles on it for £27k.
But they went and sold it "by mistake" before I went up on the Saturday. (yeah right!)
18 months later and you can't get one for that price.
At the time 2010 pre facelift cars with 80k miles on them were only £3k cheaper. But it is often the same as this when it comes to performance cars. Where as a diesel car at 6 years with 80k miles might be half the price, performance cars tend to be only slightly cheaper. Probably because there is only a handful in the UK and they will sell.
So I reckon as others have said, just buy what you like, year doesn't make much difference it seems.
gizlaroc said:
One thing I know is prices have go up, well on estates anyway.
I was looking last year and did a deal at Mercedes Blackpool for a grey 2013 with 19k miles on it for £27k.
But they went and sold it "by mistake" before I went up on the Saturday. (yeah right!)
18 months later and you can't get one for that price.
At the time 2010 pre facelift cars with 80k miles on them were only £3k cheaper. But it is often the same as this when it comes to performance cars. Where as a diesel car at 6 years with 80k miles might be half the price, performance cars tend to be only slightly cheaper. Probably because there is only a handful in the UK and they will sell.
So I reckon as others have said, just buy what you like, year doesn't make much difference it seems.
Yep, they've gone up recently too. Sub 15k cars now over 35k some up at 38k. When I bought mine they were around the 34 mark. I was looking last year and did a deal at Mercedes Blackpool for a grey 2013 with 19k miles on it for £27k.
But they went and sold it "by mistake" before I went up on the Saturday. (yeah right!)
18 months later and you can't get one for that price.
At the time 2010 pre facelift cars with 80k miles on them were only £3k cheaper. But it is often the same as this when it comes to performance cars. Where as a diesel car at 6 years with 80k miles might be half the price, performance cars tend to be only slightly cheaper. Probably because there is only a handful in the UK and they will sell.
So I reckon as others have said, just buy what you like, year doesn't make much difference it seems.
OddCat said:
Eh ? It isn't. It will be worth less privately than a higher mileage older one at a dealer because (and only because) dealer price are 20% higher. Otherwise, privately, it WOULD be worth more that an older higher mileage car.
And there wasn't a pre face life Coupe was there ?
PS the substance I'm on is realism with a side order if common sense !
Can't really be bothered with this anymore. I'll make you a little deal. If you buy the red car and want to sell in 3 months I will give you 27k for it. You will then be 2k in the black and i will be laughing, Except you won't because it will be worth far more than that.And there wasn't a pre face life Coupe was there ?
PS the substance I'm on is realism with a side order if common sense !
ecain63 said:
Ok, OP.
I bought an October 2010 C63 with PPP and all the options, with 10k in on the cock in January 2013. I paid £36k from an MB Dealer.
After 18 months and another 12k miles, how much was my car sold for privately, by your sense of realism and common sense?
My current October 2012 C63 saloon with PPP and all the trimmings has 32k on the clock. What is is worth using your logic?
I don't know what the C63 prices looked like in late 2014 - but working backwards from your purchase price, and bearing in mind you bought it from an MB dealer with the associated premium, I would imagine that, with at that point it getting on for nearly twice as old as when you bought it, and with it having more than twice as many miles, you sold it privately for around £26k. But I'm sure you are going to tell me you got £34,000 !I bought an October 2010 C63 with PPP and all the options, with 10k in on the cock in January 2013. I paid £36k from an MB Dealer.
After 18 months and another 12k miles, how much was my car sold for privately, by your sense of realism and common sense?
My current October 2012 C63 saloon with PPP and all the trimmings has 32k on the clock. What is is worth using your logic?
Re your current car at risk of causing offence (and I honestly don't want to do that)......I would say £29k retail / £25k private ?
I didn't realise that values were such a sensitive issue. People seem to take it personally. Maybe even I do up to a point.
Re the other entries "search is a b****h" I was just trying to get a feel for the market. No intentional contradiction. XKR was my original target (having had one) but RS5 appealed. Then I saw and heard a C63....
Maybe there is no science to this. Dealers and private sellers start off with asking prices that are optimistic (which is fair enough) and you never know what they finally achieved.
I'm a 50 year old bloke who has been a car nut since childhood and for whom, unfortunately, £30k is a massive stretch. So price is a serious consideration for me (although I do appreciate that others on here are wealthy and don't worry about such things).
Thanks to all for the responses.
PS Reading an August edition of Auto Express last night with a test between new C63s and M4. Reckoned new C63s would hold 45% of its new value after 3 years and 30,000 miles. So would go from £68k new to £31k (just to emphasise the point, they even then helpfully state that the loss is actually £37k). One of you chaps should have a word with them !
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/mercedes/c-class/9664...
(edited to add link)
Edited by OddCat on Wednesday 19th October 09:10
OddCat said:
I don't know what the C63 prices looked like in late 2014 - but working backwards from your purchase price, and bearing in mind you bought it from an MB dealer with the associated premium, I would imagine that, with at that point it getting on for nearly twice as old as when you bought it, and with it having more than twice as many miles, you sold it privately for around £26k. But I'm sure you are going to tell me you got £34,000 !
Re your current car at risk of causing offence (and I honestly don't want to do that)......I would say £29k retail / £25k private ?
I didn't realise that values were such a sensitive issue. People seem to take it personally. Maybe even I do up to a point.
Re the other entries "search is a b****h" I was just trying to get a feel for the market. No intentional contradiction. XKR was my original target (having had one) but RS5 appealed. Then I saw and heard a C63....
Maybe there is no science to this. Dealers and private sellers start off with asking prices that are optimistic (which is fair enough) and you never know what they finally achieved.
I'm a 50 year old bloke who has been a car nut since childhood and for whom, unfortunately, £30k is a massive stretch. So price is a serious consideration for me (although I do appreciate that others on here are wealthy and don't worry about such things).
Thanks to all for the responses.
PS Reading an August edition of Auto Express last night with a test between new C63s and M4. Reckoned new C63s would hold 45% of its new value after 3 years and 30,000 miles. So would go from £68k new to £31k (just to emphasise the point, they even then helpfully state that the loss is actually £37k). One of you chaps should have a word with them !
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/mercedes/c-class/9664...
(edited to add link)
What you're completely failing to understand is that the old C63 has a massive cult following. The fact that it has a huge N/A engine that won't be seen again means that prices are now holding firm or actually increasing.Re your current car at risk of causing offence (and I honestly don't want to do that)......I would say £29k retail / £25k private ?
I didn't realise that values were such a sensitive issue. People seem to take it personally. Maybe even I do up to a point.
Re the other entries "search is a b****h" I was just trying to get a feel for the market. No intentional contradiction. XKR was my original target (having had one) but RS5 appealed. Then I saw and heard a C63....
Maybe there is no science to this. Dealers and private sellers start off with asking prices that are optimistic (which is fair enough) and you never know what they finally achieved.
I'm a 50 year old bloke who has been a car nut since childhood and for whom, unfortunately, £30k is a massive stretch. So price is a serious consideration for me (although I do appreciate that others on here are wealthy and don't worry about such things).
Thanks to all for the responses.
PS Reading an August edition of Auto Express last night with a test between new C63s and M4. Reckoned new C63s would hold 45% of its new value after 3 years and 30,000 miles. So would go from £68k new to £31k (just to emphasise the point, they even then helpfully state that the loss is actually £37k). One of you chaps should have a word with them !
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/mercedes/c-class/9664...
(edited to add link)
Edited by OddCat on Wednesday 19th October 09:10
Oh and your valuation of ecain's current car shows your complete ignorance. That car is worth around 33-35k private.
Edited by mikearwas on Wednesday 19th October 09:41
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