Discussion
Candellara said:
Have to say that i'm nervous about ABC issues. Is this a common affliction to every car?
To be honest it is a weak point, but when it's working it's pretty amazing. A lot of the scare stories are from before the specialists knew how to sort it out or from when people kept driving with the warning lights on. 5000GBP repair bills weren't unheard of..
Struts rarely fail and usually if they do it's because the system has been run with it in a fault state and they have become contaminated. If they do fail they used to be 1200GBP per corner, but Merc do reconditioned ones at 700 GBP or a company called Arnott make their own with a lifetime guarantee for around the same price.
The pump is the most likely unit in the system to fail, but these can now be rebuilt relatively cheaply.
Then there are the front and rear accumulators or valve blocks that again can be rebuilt pretty cheaply.
The key is to get one where the pump has recently been done and make sure the system is fully flushed every 2 years ... cars treated like this rarely have ABC issues. The other thing is if you do get a fault stop the car and don't drive it any further. This seems to prevent contamination from getting round the system into other parts of it and will localise any damage and make the repair a lot cheaper.
I wouldn't let ABC put you off. I've had my car since March 2013 and had to rebuild a front valve block when I got it, but aside from that it's been faultless in the ABC department
I'm not sure if MB World still do the 4 hour driver instruction course anymore but I did it at MB World. It was in a later twin turbo car, I literally thrashed the SL63 around the very twisty courses that are supposed to replicate a very twisty A road for hours in the pouring rain and couldn't upset the cars handling.
There is no doubt the suspension settings available on the SL63 do mask it's bulk perfectly and by the end of the course I'd backed off the traction control a tad and was thoroughly impressed by the car. Put it this way you certainly wouldn't dare drive it on the roads in that manner so you are nowhere near its handling limits on day to day spirited driving.
If there is still an experience available at MB World for the SL63 try it if you're not convinced before you certainly will be afterwards.
Some very early SL63's had a potential head bolt issue, although I never heard of any having this problem, the later twin turbo car did not have this issue as far as I know.
There is no doubt the suspension settings available on the SL63 do mask it's bulk perfectly and by the end of the course I'd backed off the traction control a tad and was thoroughly impressed by the car. Put it this way you certainly wouldn't dare drive it on the roads in that manner so you are nowhere near its handling limits on day to day spirited driving.
If there is still an experience available at MB World for the SL63 try it if you're not convinced before you certainly will be afterwards.
Some very early SL63's had a potential head bolt issue, although I never heard of any having this problem, the later twin turbo car did not have this issue as far as I know.
I've been reading this thread with interest as was considering changing my SL55 for an R230 SL63 (NA)
I bought my 2003 SL55 from a Merc main dealer in Sep 2015 so it had full main dealer history. It had 60k miles at the time and now on 65k (weekend use). I decided to get it checked over shortly after buying by a different dealer and they found it needed both front suspension ABC struts, both thrust arm bushes worn and gaitors split and twin idler pulley bearing needed replacing. Luckily the supplying dealer agreed to pay for most of this. The car came with a 2 year warranty and so far I have only claimed once on a new ABC pump. Otherwise most items have been wear and tear related such as new V belts and both batteries. It's a great car but as ever I get itchy feet after a while...
I started looking at the SL63 (NA) which I gather has a much better gearbox and probably better noise but on the downside has less torque and some other issues such as head bolts and the gearbox itself is not as robust as the 5 speed in the SL55. I think I'd only buy one with main dealer warranty.
A couple of days ago I decided to do an SL63 drive experience at MB World which was fantastic. The Bi-turbo engine has a different character again but has loads of torque and makes a great noise. Although not a big fan of the looks the interior and build quality is a big step up and the handling was pretty foolproof. They do seems like decent value compared to the SL63 (NA) too.
I am now inclined to stick with the SL55 as for the money it is pretty unbeatable (I paid £17k). It hasn't stopped me from looking though
OP - let us know what cars you are looking at (SL55 or SL63?) and how you get on
I bought my 2003 SL55 from a Merc main dealer in Sep 2015 so it had full main dealer history. It had 60k miles at the time and now on 65k (weekend use). I decided to get it checked over shortly after buying by a different dealer and they found it needed both front suspension ABC struts, both thrust arm bushes worn and gaitors split and twin idler pulley bearing needed replacing. Luckily the supplying dealer agreed to pay for most of this. The car came with a 2 year warranty and so far I have only claimed once on a new ABC pump. Otherwise most items have been wear and tear related such as new V belts and both batteries. It's a great car but as ever I get itchy feet after a while...
I started looking at the SL63 (NA) which I gather has a much better gearbox and probably better noise but on the downside has less torque and some other issues such as head bolts and the gearbox itself is not as robust as the 5 speed in the SL55. I think I'd only buy one with main dealer warranty.
A couple of days ago I decided to do an SL63 drive experience at MB World which was fantastic. The Bi-turbo engine has a different character again but has loads of torque and makes a great noise. Although not a big fan of the looks the interior and build quality is a big step up and the handling was pretty foolproof. They do seems like decent value compared to the SL63 (NA) too.
I am now inclined to stick with the SL55 as for the money it is pretty unbeatable (I paid £17k). It hasn't stopped me from looking though
OP - let us know what cars you are looking at (SL55 or SL63?) and how you get on
oap750 said:
The 55 sits quite nicely for me. It's the better looking of all three models (IMO) and - to be honest, for what i want it for (cruising around at the weekend during the Summer), it's cracking value.
Candellara said:
After owning a whole list of exotica - children came along, so i'm very time poor. For this reason i won't really derive value out of £50k+ car depreciating in the garage which may only do 1500 miles per year.
The 55 sits quite nicely for me. It's the better looking of all three models (IMO) and - to be honest, for what i want it for (cruising around at the weekend during the Summer), it's cracking value.
Sounds like we are treading the same path and I agree the 55 is the best bet for you (I have the Merc childseat in mine :-) )The 55 sits quite nicely for me. It's the better looking of all three models (IMO) and - to be honest, for what i want it for (cruising around at the weekend during the Summer), it's cracking value.
I've been lucky enough to have owned a lot of exotics too and the 55 ranks highly amongst them - it's nice to have something that doesn't owe me too much, is usable all year round, comfortable and holds its money
Candellara said:
Have to say that i'm nervous about ABC issues. Is this a common affliction to every car?
IMO you are right to do so, i also heard all the stories and reserched the ABC system, but i bought one anyway.I owned a CL55 for three years, it has the same ABC system as the SLs. For the first two years i loved that car, when the suspension woked it worked fantastic for two years. I could not fault it what so ever. And then one day the red ABC warning light and the rear oof the car dropped
When the ABC goes wrong it goes wrong big time. I rebuilt the ABC pump with a seal kit from the USA pig of a job because there is not much information out there on it. I did a step by step pump removal for one of the mercedes forums. , Then 3 weeks later one of the hydrolic pipes burst which involved me having to remove the whole rear subframe to replace it because all of the hydrolic pipes run above the rear subframe. Bsatard of a job.
Oh no,red warning light again. I stripped and rebuilt the ABC valve blocks due to the rear of the car dropped down again which ment the car could not be driven because it was not safe to do so. When they drop they drop low and are the most dangerous cars on the road to drive.
The final straw was when both of the rear strutts sprung a leak. Up to that point i had spent more than a few grand and was nervious driving it now.
I got rid of that bloody thing last year at a very very low price, because when a merc has an ABC problem it knocks the value out of them big time. A 10 grand car is reduced to a few grand in very short order.
Yes, the ABC system is the best in the world and its fantastic when working, when not its the most expensive to fix system on any car.
Now i have a Jaguar XKR, and do you know what the very first thing I checked when i was researching? If it had normal springs and dampers LOL
FezSpider said:
IMO you are right to do so, i also heard all the stories and reserched the ABC system, but i bought one anyway.
I owned a CL55 for three years, it has the same ABC system as the SLs. For the first two years i loved that car, when the suspension woked it worked fantastic for two years. I could not fault it what so ever. And then one day the red ABC warning light and the rear oof the car dropped
When the ABC goes wrong it goes wrong big time. I rebuilt the ABC pump with a seal kit from the USA pig of a job because there is not much information out there on it. I did a step by step pump removal for one of the mercedes forums. , Then 3 weeks later one of the hydrolic pipes burst which involved me having to remove the whole rear subframe to replace it because all of the hydrolic pipes run above the rear subframe. Bsatard of a job.
Oh no,red warning light again. I stripped and rebuilt the ABC valve blocks due to the rear of the car dropped down again which ment the car could not be driven because it was not safe to do so. When they drop they drop low and are the most dangerous cars on the road to drive.
The final straw was when both of the rear strutts sprung a leak. Up to that point i had spent more than a few grand and was nervious driving it now.
I got rid of that bloody thing last year at a very very low price, because when a merc has an ABC problem it knocks the value out of them big time. A 10 grand car is reduced to a few grand in very short order.
Yes, the ABC system is the best in the world and its fantastic when working, when not its the most expensive to fix system on any car.
Now i have a Jaguar XKR, and do you know what the very first thing I checked when i was researching? If it had normal springs and dampers LOL
Genuinely no offence intended, but if the rear of the car dropped why did you look at the pump. The pump failing drops the whole car. My guess is you rear valve block had given up and was leaking, by the time you got to it contamination had got into the system and that is what did for your rear struts.I owned a CL55 for three years, it has the same ABC system as the SLs. For the first two years i loved that car, when the suspension woked it worked fantastic for two years. I could not fault it what so ever. And then one day the red ABC warning light and the rear oof the car dropped
When the ABC goes wrong it goes wrong big time. I rebuilt the ABC pump with a seal kit from the USA pig of a job because there is not much information out there on it. I did a step by step pump removal for one of the mercedes forums. , Then 3 weeks later one of the hydrolic pipes burst which involved me having to remove the whole rear subframe to replace it because all of the hydrolic pipes run above the rear subframe. Bsatard of a job.
Oh no,red warning light again. I stripped and rebuilt the ABC valve blocks due to the rear of the car dropped down again which ment the car could not be driven because it was not safe to do so. When they drop they drop low and are the most dangerous cars on the road to drive.
The final straw was when both of the rear strutts sprung a leak. Up to that point i had spent more than a few grand and was nervious driving it now.
I got rid of that bloody thing last year at a very very low price, because when a merc has an ABC problem it knocks the value out of them big time. A 10 grand car is reduced to a few grand in very short order.
Yes, the ABC system is the best in the world and its fantastic when working, when not its the most expensive to fix system on any car.
Now i have a Jaguar XKR, and do you know what the very first thing I checked when i was researching? If it had normal springs and dampers LOL
As I said my golden rule is as soon as you get the warning light, switch it off, get it recovered and fix the actual problem. Flush the system with new hydraulic fluid and it should be fine.
Flushing as a matter of course every 2 years seems to work wonders too.
cb1965 said:
Genuinely no offence intended, but if the rear of the car dropped why did you look at the pump. The pump failing drops the whole car. My guess is you rear valve block had given up and was leaking, by the time you got to it contamination had got into the system and that is what did for your rear struts.
As I said my golden rule is as soon as you get the warning light, switch it off, get it recovered and fix the actual problem. Flush the system with new hydraulic fluid and it should be fine.
Flushing as a matter of course every 2 years seems to work wonders too.
No offense taken mate, and honestly no offense to you in the following. Were all here to listen and be helped.As I said my golden rule is as soon as you get the warning light, switch it off, get it recovered and fix the actual problem. Flush the system with new hydraulic fluid and it should be fine.
Flushing as a matter of course every 2 years seems to work wonders too.
Clearly you have never had practical hands on stripping down the ABC system. I have, i rebuilt the pump, the valve blocks and replaced the pipe work. I know the system inside and out 100%
Regarding when the pump fails the whole car drops, no it does not. The car only drops when a valve fails in one of the blocks, there are 4 valves in each block. Taking one of the blocks, say the rear. There are two valves for each wheel, one valve allows the fluid to go back and forth to the strut, the other valve is a check valve that hold the pressure when the car is turned of. Thats why some people expereance there cars dropping over night.
Regarding the pump, i looked at the pump because when the red light came on and i inspected the system, i noticed that the pump was pissing fluid. After i took out the pump and stripped it, i saw that one of the 8 allen head bolts inside the pump had backed of and cracked the pump cover.
Like i said i posted a step by step regarding removing the pump from the car on the CL forum.
The valve block does not give up due to contamination, it just sticks and needs loosening and cleaning.
One of the biggest causes of failures on the ABC pipe work is corrosion, all that road salt and water eats through the pipes until one day it bursts. And there all located for the rear under the subframe.
Here are a few examples of my technical write ups regarding the ABC system .It includes the ABC pump removal, with the second showing how to remove and strip the valves and blocks down to there components as well as an explanation as to what valve does what.
http://www.benzworld.org/forums/c215-cl-class/1925...
http://www.benzworld.org/forums/c215-cl-class/1925...
Edited by FezSpider on Saturday 11th February 17:17
Well, eyes wide open - i test drove all three variants today.
Although lovely, the latest cars are still depreciating heavily and TBH don't want a £50k car in the garage that i barely use. Been there and worn the t shirt with exotica costing 6 figures
The 2009 car that i drove - is a very capable car but, a good one is still £40k+ and it's too close in price to the latest generation car for it to make financial sense. Plus, i really don't like the front end of the car.
There were several SL55's to choose from (or so i thought). A super low mileage car which i ruled out as i don't want a garage queen and any significant use will destroy it's value (£35k). The next car, a 2006 facelift car was perfect - but literally sold within days at £28k. Nice spec car though - shame i missed this
The SL55 is the prettiest IMO and i love the sound of the supercharged V8. This is the car i'll opt for and i'm not too concerned with the bills it could generate as any car costing £100k new has the ability to generate significant bills.
Although lovely, the latest cars are still depreciating heavily and TBH don't want a £50k car in the garage that i barely use. Been there and worn the t shirt with exotica costing 6 figures
The 2009 car that i drove - is a very capable car but, a good one is still £40k+ and it's too close in price to the latest generation car for it to make financial sense. Plus, i really don't like the front end of the car.
There were several SL55's to choose from (or so i thought). A super low mileage car which i ruled out as i don't want a garage queen and any significant use will destroy it's value (£35k). The next car, a 2006 facelift car was perfect - but literally sold within days at £28k. Nice spec car though - shame i missed this
The SL55 is the prettiest IMO and i love the sound of the supercharged V8. This is the car i'll opt for and i'm not too concerned with the bills it could generate as any car costing £100k new has the ability to generate significant bills.
As a matter of interest and when i find "the car", the main starter battery is located under the bonnet - where is the aux battery?
Also, where do people connect the trickle charger to? Fly lead to the main starter battery? Will this charge the aux battery as well?
Any preferred Insurance companies for ltd mileage policies - Locktons? Footman James?
Also, where do people connect the trickle charger to? Fly lead to the main starter battery? Will this charge the aux battery as well?
Any preferred Insurance companies for ltd mileage policies - Locktons? Footman James?
Candellara said:
As a matter of interest and when i find "the car", the main starter battery is located under the bonnet - where is the aux battery?
Also, where do people connect the trickle charger to? Fly lead to the main starter battery? Will this charge the aux battery as well?
Any preferred Insurance companies for ltd mileage policies - Locktons? Footman James?
Aux battery is in the boot on the offside. Lift out the boot tray which is under the carpet and you will see it. I connect my trickle charger to this and everything is fine.Also, where do people connect the trickle charger to? Fly lead to the main starter battery? Will this charge the aux battery as well?
Any preferred Insurance companies for ltd mileage policies - Locktons? Footman James?
Adrian Flux gave me the best insurance deal for limited mileage, but mine has lots of mods which maybe why they were a better price.
FezSpider said:
No offense taken mate, and honestly no offense to you in the following. Were all here to listen and be helped.
Clearly you have never had practical hands on stripping down the ABC system. I have, i rebuilt the pump, the valve blocks and replaced the pipe work. I know the system inside and out 100%
Regarding when the pump fails the whole car drops, no it does not. The car only drops when a valve fails in one of the blocks, there are 4 valves in each block. Taking one of the blocks, say the rear. There are two valves for each wheel, one valve allows the fluid to go back and forth to the strut, the other valve is a check valve that hold the pressure when the car is turned of. Thats why some people expereance there cars dropping over night.
Regarding the pump, i looked at the pump because when the red light came on and i inspected the system, i noticed that the pump was pissing fluid. After i took out the pump and stripped it, i saw that one of the 8 allen head bolts inside the pump had backed of and cracked the pump cover.
Like i said i posted a step by step regarding removing the pump from the car on the CL forum.
The valve block does not give up due to contamination, it just sticks and needs loosening and cleaning.
One of the biggest causes of failures on the ABC pipe work is corrosion, all that road salt and water eats through the pipes until one day it bursts. And there all located for the rear under the subframe.
Here are a few examples of my technical write ups regarding the ABC system .It includes the ABC pump removal, with the second showing how to remove and strip the valves and blocks down to there components as well as an explanation as to what valve does what.
http://www.benzworld.org/forums/c215-cl-class/1925...
http://www.benzworld.org/forums/c215-cl-class/1925...
No worries and fair enough on the pump but in my experience (which may be less than yours admittedly) when the pump packs in it can't raise the car sufficiently front or back.Clearly you have never had practical hands on stripping down the ABC system. I have, i rebuilt the pump, the valve blocks and replaced the pipe work. I know the system inside and out 100%
Regarding when the pump fails the whole car drops, no it does not. The car only drops when a valve fails in one of the blocks, there are 4 valves in each block. Taking one of the blocks, say the rear. There are two valves for each wheel, one valve allows the fluid to go back and forth to the strut, the other valve is a check valve that hold the pressure when the car is turned of. Thats why some people expereance there cars dropping over night.
Regarding the pump, i looked at the pump because when the red light came on and i inspected the system, i noticed that the pump was pissing fluid. After i took out the pump and stripped it, i saw that one of the 8 allen head bolts inside the pump had backed of and cracked the pump cover.
Like i said i posted a step by step regarding removing the pump from the car on the CL forum.
The valve block does not give up due to contamination, it just sticks and needs loosening and cleaning.
One of the biggest causes of failures on the ABC pipe work is corrosion, all that road salt and water eats through the pipes until one day it bursts. And there all located for the rear under the subframe.
Here are a few examples of my technical write ups regarding the ABC system .It includes the ABC pump removal, with the second showing how to remove and strip the valves and blocks down to there components as well as an explanation as to what valve does what.
http://www.benzworld.org/forums/c215-cl-class/1925...
http://www.benzworld.org/forums/c215-cl-class/1925...
Edited by anonymous-user on Saturday 11th February 17:17
Done several valve blocks myself for some club members and while I don't think contamination does them in per se I do think any leak on the system that allows contaminants in will damage the struts eventually and possibly contaminate the seals in the blocks. A lot of people don't agree with me but my SL and a friend's CL have not had a problem since we both started looking and addressing problems before they occur.
I replaced my front pipes recently due to corrosion, but before they started leaking.
Do think that preventative maintenance is the way with the ABC system.
Cb1965, I think you and i are singing of the same sheet mate. Everything you have said is valid, and between us we may have helped OP who was concerned about the ABC system. We also agree that the ABC system when running right is amazing
I believe the hydrolic ABC system was dropped in either 2006 or 2008 for the less problematic air system.
I believe the hydrolic ABC system was dropped in either 2006 or 2008 for the less problematic air system.
Update. Found myself a car :-) Black with black leather. Pan Roof, 19" wheels
56 plate facelift car with 57k miles. Nice spec and pretty much a full MB history from new. From the history i can see that the roof seals have all been replaced and the ABC system flushed with new oil just 10k miles ago as part of a major service.
56 plate facelift car with 57k miles. Nice spec and pretty much a full MB history from new. From the history i can see that the roof seals have all been replaced and the ABC system flushed with new oil just 10k miles ago as part of a major service.
Candellara said:
Update. Found myself a car :-) Black with black leather. Pan Roof, 19" wheels
56 plate facelift car with 57k miles. Nice spec and pretty much a full MB history from new. From the history i can see that the roof seals have all been replaced and the ABC system flushed with new oil just 10k miles ago as part of a major service.
Good work! - roof seals were completely redesigned later in the run, so hopefully you have got those. My 2007 is totally dry in the boot.56 plate facelift car with 57k miles. Nice spec and pretty much a full MB history from new. From the history i can see that the roof seals have all been replaced and the ABC system flushed with new oil just 10k miles ago as part of a major service.
Have a look a stuff called Gummi Pflege to keep the many seals working well.
cb1965 said:
Put the 55 and the 63 side by side and look at them. Then you will see why the 55 is firming up.... it's about the best car aesthetically Mercedes have designed in the last 30 years, the front of the 63 is a dog's dinner in comparison!
The front lights let it down terribly. What were they thinking? The rest of the '63 still retains the fundamental presence of the '55 IMO. Pick up car next week. I popped into my local MB dealer which i know quite well and they kindly printed off every single piece of history on the car - there's lots. Roof seals replaced by MB a few years ago amongst a host of other items like roof control unit etc
The independent retailer that i'm purchasing from have been very good so far. The car went to an independent Mercedes specialist to be checked over as part of the purchase:
ABC system inspected (pump / struts) and no faults found.
Roof operation and condition checked - no faults found.
Brake pads getting low front & rear - both sets replaced
Drivers seat heating faulty. STAR diagnosis, seat control unit & pads. Seat heating fixed
No other faults found
The independent retailer that i'm purchasing from have been very good so far. The car went to an independent Mercedes specialist to be checked over as part of the purchase:
ABC system inspected (pump / struts) and no faults found.
Roof operation and condition checked - no faults found.
Brake pads getting low front & rear - both sets replaced
Drivers seat heating faulty. STAR diagnosis, seat control unit & pads. Seat heating fixed
No other faults found
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