C216 CL63 (6.2) AMG - Opinions
Discussion
I had a 2007 CL63 AMG. I bought it a year old when my twins were a year old.
We just had two sets of isofix seats so we didn't need to swap them from my car to my wife’s car and it was no problem with getting our twins in and out of the car.
I originally had the car on a 3 year deal, but extended a year as I loved it so much.
Great power and a DMS remap transformed it. Much better value currently than the 507 coupe that Ii moved to.
Off the top of my head it needs new spark plugs every 36k.
We just had two sets of isofix seats so we didn't need to swap them from my car to my wife’s car and it was no problem with getting our twins in and out of the car.
I originally had the car on a 3 year deal, but extended a year as I loved it so much.
Great power and a DMS remap transformed it. Much better value currently than the 507 coupe that Ii moved to.
Off the top of my head it needs new spark plugs every 36k.
mwstewart said:
I'm going for an early B class to make things easier for my wife - something like https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202210251... I'm under no illusion that build quality isn't any higher than something like a Fiesta or Astra, but given their current values they appear to represent very good value for money. I also think that they look smart. The little one isn't due until January so I still have time to find a nice car.
No doubt you will have done the research, but I do recall something about problems with the A/B class CVT gearbox.Jeremy Clarkson on the C216 CL600 (from The Times) - reproduced in VW Vortex as The Times originals behind a paywall:
https://www.vwvortex.com/threads/clarkson-reviews-...
https://www.vwvortex.com/threads/clarkson-reviews-...
Penguinracer said:
Mark,
I've followed your Ferrari & Fiesta threads, so I'm aware how meticulous you are about engineering detail.
I have Porsche 944 turbo nearing end of build - the original factory block but with a closed deck with Darton MID sleeves, dry-sumped, 2.7 litre, Mahle pistons, Carrillo rods, aftermarket intake, cam, exhaust, Garrett GTX3576R Gen II, Guard 50/80 diff, rose-jointed, KW's, 993 turbo brakes - totally reengineered to my spec to be a GT3 type road & track car - at Gantspeed Engineering up your way.
I started off just wanting a C216 CL600 having heard horror stories from the U.S. about the C215's ABC suspension & being aware that Mercedes darkest period was 1996 - 2006 when rust was a serious issue & build quality was at a low. All of which got me interested in the C140 which many would argue was the last Mercedes built to a standard & not a cost.
Martin Buckley described the C140 as Mercedes taking on Rolls-Royce & Bentley, a level of ambition they never pursued again. Remember that the C140 was supposed to be launched in 1989, but when the BMW E32 750iL came out in 1987 Mercedes immediately decided they would need a V12 to counter. So they spared no expense & couldn't afford to risk any failure & the result was the magnificent quad cam, 48 valve M120 6 litre (used in both original & AMG-developed forms by Zonda).
Net result, the launch of the W140 was pushed back to 1991 by which time a recession had set in (precipitated by the stock market crash of Monday 19th October 1987). The W140 received a luke warm reception - it was too big, too ugly, too thirsty & too late!
At a board meeting in 1993, after the 1 billion DM development costs of the W140 & the demotion of project head, Dr Wolfgang Peter to the truck division, it was resolved that never again would Daimler-Benz have such a dependency on any single product range. This is where the cross-over strategy of many model ranges was born. The W140 cost 25% more to buy than the equivalent W126 & sold in half the numbers (432,000 v 818,000).
Long story short, I had dismissed the C215 as being from Mercedes dark period until some posters on an MB forum who has owned both C215's & C216's opined that the C215 was the sportier car & the C216 the better sorted one with an improved ABC system. They also said that the C215 didn't suffer from the build quality issues of the period as it was a flagship product built on its own special production line.
I think the negative U.S. stories about the C215 suspension really stem from a misunderstanding that like all fluid carrying systems it requires regular inspection & maintenance - it's not a "set & forget" system like a conventional "dry" suspension system.
Thanks very much, another fascinating read. I've decided to go for a C216 and take some time to evaluate a C140 and C215.I've followed your Ferrari & Fiesta threads, so I'm aware how meticulous you are about engineering detail.
I have Porsche 944 turbo nearing end of build - the original factory block but with a closed deck with Darton MID sleeves, dry-sumped, 2.7 litre, Mahle pistons, Carrillo rods, aftermarket intake, cam, exhaust, Garrett GTX3576R Gen II, Guard 50/80 diff, rose-jointed, KW's, 993 turbo brakes - totally reengineered to my spec to be a GT3 type road & track car - at Gantspeed Engineering up your way.
I started off just wanting a C216 CL600 having heard horror stories from the U.S. about the C215's ABC suspension & being aware that Mercedes darkest period was 1996 - 2006 when rust was a serious issue & build quality was at a low. All of which got me interested in the C140 which many would argue was the last Mercedes built to a standard & not a cost.
Martin Buckley described the C140 as Mercedes taking on Rolls-Royce & Bentley, a level of ambition they never pursued again. Remember that the C140 was supposed to be launched in 1989, but when the BMW E32 750iL came out in 1987 Mercedes immediately decided they would need a V12 to counter. So they spared no expense & couldn't afford to risk any failure & the result was the magnificent quad cam, 48 valve M120 6 litre (used in both original & AMG-developed forms by Zonda).
Net result, the launch of the W140 was pushed back to 1991 by which time a recession had set in (precipitated by the stock market crash of Monday 19th October 1987). The W140 received a luke warm reception - it was too big, too ugly, too thirsty & too late!
At a board meeting in 1993, after the 1 billion DM development costs of the W140 & the demotion of project head, Dr Wolfgang Peter to the truck division, it was resolved that never again would Daimler-Benz have such a dependency on any single product range. This is where the cross-over strategy of many model ranges was born. The W140 cost 25% more to buy than the equivalent W126 & sold in half the numbers (432,000 v 818,000).
Long story short, I had dismissed the C215 as being from Mercedes dark period until some posters on an MB forum who has owned both C215's & C216's opined that the C215 was the sportier car & the C216 the better sorted one with an improved ABC system. They also said that the C215 didn't suffer from the build quality issues of the period as it was a flagship product built on its own special production line.
I think the negative U.S. stories about the C215 suspension really stem from a misunderstanding that like all fluid carrying systems it requires regular inspection & maintenance - it's not a "set & forget" system like a conventional "dry" suspension system.
Do you have a build dairy for the Porsche?
Penguinracer said:
Remember - the CLS is based on the E-class platform - it's not a full fat S-Class with all the depth of engineering & build quality which goes with the flagship model.
That's one of the reasons for skipping past the CLS: I want the S level refinement.Penguinracer said:
This really shows how much thought went into them. It's even more impressive given that the typical development cycle starts up to 10 years before the car is produced. Very much ahead of its time.
Gnevans said:
I had a 2007 CL63 AMG. I bought it a year old when my twins were a year old.
We just had two sets of isofix seats so we didn't need to swap them from my car to my wife’s car and it was no problem with getting our twins in and out of the car.
I originally had the car on a 3 year deal, but extended a year as I loved it so much.
Great power and a DMS remap transformed it. Much better value currently than the 507 coupe that Ii moved to.
Off the top of my head it needs new spark plugs every 36k.
That is exactly what I plan to do: a seat in each car to save the faff of removing it each time. Thanks for the information.We just had two sets of isofix seats so we didn't need to swap them from my car to my wife’s car and it was no problem with getting our twins in and out of the car.
I originally had the car on a 3 year deal, but extended a year as I loved it so much.
Great power and a DMS remap transformed it. Much better value currently than the 507 coupe that Ii moved to.
Off the top of my head it needs new spark plugs every 36k.
trevalvole said:
No doubt you will have done the research, but I do recall something about problems with the A/B class CVT gearbox.
I appreciate the caution. I did undertake a little bit of research and found that the most common issues are with the TCU; Mercedes used very thin solid aluminium wire to connect the PCB to external connectors and didn't apply sufficient silicone sealing gel to encase the wires, so they break. The repair is described here: https://mhhauto.com/Thread-MB-A-Class-CVT-transmis...vpr said:
I bought a 2013 CL63 4 years ago. Obviously the 5.5 twin turbo.
I chose it over the 6.2 because I prefer the updated bits and love the turbo whistle.
It lacks the pure noise of the 6.2 but power delivery is sublime
What colour scheme did you go for?I chose it over the 6.2 because I prefer the updated bits and love the turbo whistle.
It lacks the pure noise of the 6.2 but power delivery is sublime
I had a CL500 W216 and loved it. I know you are looking at a different engine which is wise as mine had a stretched timing chain which isn’t an uncommon so the specialist told me. I will say however it worked well as a family car and we used it for a holiday to France with two young children in car seats. Happy shopping.
vpr said:
Beautiful car. I'm beginning to think that they are amongst Mercedes' best designs.speedster986 said:
I had a CL500 W216 and loved it. I know you are looking at a different engine which is wise as mine had a stretched timing chain which isn’t an uncommon so the specialist told me. I will say however it worked well as a family car and we used it for a holiday to France with two young children in car seats. Happy shopping.
Oh dear, that must be the M273 5.5. It's a real shame as fundamentally it's a great engine. Otherwise, thank you, we will no doubt st some point make the same trip.
Beautiful car, and I really like the lighter interior. It looks like what I'd identify as a 'Sport' when looking at other Mercedes models, which typically feature changes such as a faster steering rack, sports suspension and anti roll bars, different exhaust etc. Do those changes apply to the CL?
Michael, from Wikipedia - although they seem to have forgotten the paragraphs:
Michael, from Wikipedia - although they seem to have forgotten the paragraphs:
wikipedia said:
CL 65 AMG (2010-2014)
Mercedes-Benz CL 65 AMG
It is a version of the CL 600 with increased engine power to 630 PS (463 kW; 621 hp) at 4,800 rpm and 1,000 N⋅m (738 lbf⋅ft) at 2,300-4,300 rpm, reduction in fuel consumption via regenerative braking for battery management of both the on-board electrical system and generator, reduced emissions via new piston rings, a modified oil pump and use of a superior coating on the catalytic converters; AMG SPEEDSHIFT five-speed automatic transmission with three different drive modes, AMG sports suspension based on Active Body Control (ABC) with Torque Vectoring Brake, crosswind stabilisation, loading adjustment system, Direct-Steer system with speed-sensitive power steering, AMG high-performance braking system based on the ADAPTIVE BRAKE system (390 and 365 millimetres diameter ventilated and perforated composite brake discs, double floating front and sliding frame-type rear brake callipers), profiled bonnet, enlarged and more angled radiator grille, Intelligent Light System (ILS) (bi-xenon headlamps with active light function, Adaptive Highbeam Assist and AMG-specific LED daytime driving lights in the front apron), enlarged chrome-trimmed cooling-air intake with horizontal grille slat, V-shape and the lower cross strut with exclusive chrome-look finish, AMG rear apron with a chrome diffuser insert, taillamps with one-piece red-coloured cover plates, reversing headlamps placed next to the licence plate recess, AMG sports exhaust system with two chrome twin tailpipes featuring a V12 design, "V12 BITURBO" lettering on the mudguard, AMG double-spoke forged wheels in titanium grey and with a high-sheen finish, 255/35 R 20 front 275/35 R 20 rear tyres, exclusive PASSION nappa leather upholstery with V12 diamond pattern at seats and door centre panels, Nappa leather upholstery at instrument panel and seatback panels and magazine pockets and parcel shelf, Alcantara roof lining and A and C-pillars, AMG sports seats with alternate upholstery layout and active ventilation and heating and Seat Comfort package (front active multicontour seats with massage and dynamic functions, NECK-PRO luxury head restraints), PRE-SAFE positioning function at front seats, AMG sports steering wheel with silver-coloured aluminium shift paddles and perforated nappa leather in the grip area, COMAND APS multimedia system including Harman Kardon Logic 7 surround sound system with SPLITVIEW, AMG instrument cluster with "AMG V12 BITURBO" start screen and a 360-km/h speedometer scale, a gear indicator including upshift recommendation at AMG main menu, RACETIMER with lap times tracking, exclusive analogue clock with IWC design and high-gloss poplar wood trim elements.
'crosswind stabilisation' - that's a new one!Mercedes-Benz CL 65 AMG
It is a version of the CL 600 with increased engine power to 630 PS (463 kW; 621 hp) at 4,800 rpm and 1,000 N⋅m (738 lbf⋅ft) at 2,300-4,300 rpm, reduction in fuel consumption via regenerative braking for battery management of both the on-board electrical system and generator, reduced emissions via new piston rings, a modified oil pump and use of a superior coating on the catalytic converters; AMG SPEEDSHIFT five-speed automatic transmission with three different drive modes, AMG sports suspension based on Active Body Control (ABC) with Torque Vectoring Brake, crosswind stabilisation, loading adjustment system, Direct-Steer system with speed-sensitive power steering, AMG high-performance braking system based on the ADAPTIVE BRAKE system (390 and 365 millimetres diameter ventilated and perforated composite brake discs, double floating front and sliding frame-type rear brake callipers), profiled bonnet, enlarged and more angled radiator grille, Intelligent Light System (ILS) (bi-xenon headlamps with active light function, Adaptive Highbeam Assist and AMG-specific LED daytime driving lights in the front apron), enlarged chrome-trimmed cooling-air intake with horizontal grille slat, V-shape and the lower cross strut with exclusive chrome-look finish, AMG rear apron with a chrome diffuser insert, taillamps with one-piece red-coloured cover plates, reversing headlamps placed next to the licence plate recess, AMG sports exhaust system with two chrome twin tailpipes featuring a V12 design, "V12 BITURBO" lettering on the mudguard, AMG double-spoke forged wheels in titanium grey and with a high-sheen finish, 255/35 R 20 front 275/35 R 20 rear tyres, exclusive PASSION nappa leather upholstery with V12 diamond pattern at seats and door centre panels, Nappa leather upholstery at instrument panel and seatback panels and magazine pockets and parcel shelf, Alcantara roof lining and A and C-pillars, AMG sports seats with alternate upholstery layout and active ventilation and heating and Seat Comfort package (front active multicontour seats with massage and dynamic functions, NECK-PRO luxury head restraints), PRE-SAFE positioning function at front seats, AMG sports steering wheel with silver-coloured aluminium shift paddles and perforated nappa leather in the grip area, COMAND APS multimedia system including Harman Kardon Logic 7 surround sound system with SPLITVIEW, AMG instrument cluster with "AMG V12 BITURBO" start screen and a 360-km/h speedometer scale, a gear indicator including upshift recommendation at AMG main menu, RACETIMER with lap times tracking, exclusive analogue clock with IWC design and high-gloss poplar wood trim elements.
bolidemichael said:
Thanks -- however, it's essentially the same engine, but with boosted turbos? The CL600 is also a V12 bi-turbo.
Essentially the same engine - the M275 - however the CL600 is 5.5 and the CL65 is 6.0.Some information here https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_M275...
speedster986 said:
I had a CL500 W216 and loved it. I know you are looking at a different engine which is wise as mine had a stretched timing chain which isn’t an uncommon so the specialist told me. I will say however it worked well as a family car and we used it for a holiday to France with two young children in car seats. Happy shopping.
Was this the normally aspirated engine or turbo? I'd heard early turbo 5.5's had some issues but not the previous non turbos.https://www.motorreviewer.com/engine.php?engine_id...
This suggests the problem may have got better after 2006.
This suggests the problem may have got better after 2006.
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