R129 SL60 AMG - Anybody have any experience?
Discussion
Thanks for the feedback guys.
Some nice pictures and information there.
I understand what you are saying about the SL500 being 9/10s the car the SL600/SL60 is on UK roads. One of the reasons I quite fancy an SL is because I don't do a large mileage and the car would spend a lot of it's time in the garage under a dust sheet.
I know it sounds pretty abhorrent but I just like to have a little 'class' parked in the garage that I can use when I'm home, something connvertible (as I've not had one before), with plenty of poke and it won't throw a wobbler due to not being used for a couple of months at a time.
I would dearly love a TVR but they need to be used on a regular basis. My old M535i used to fire up every time with no issues, even after being parked up for five or six months. It never let me down and was always up for a good hoon. I ended up selling the old girl to a bloke in Holland for considerably more than I paid for it.
I'm sure, next week I'll see something else that 'fits the bill' perfectly, however, I really think an older Merc does the job nicely (plus the OH seems to like the look it!).
Some nice pictures and information there.
I understand what you are saying about the SL500 being 9/10s the car the SL600/SL60 is on UK roads. One of the reasons I quite fancy an SL is because I don't do a large mileage and the car would spend a lot of it's time in the garage under a dust sheet.
I know it sounds pretty abhorrent but I just like to have a little 'class' parked in the garage that I can use when I'm home, something connvertible (as I've not had one before), with plenty of poke and it won't throw a wobbler due to not being used for a couple of months at a time.
I would dearly love a TVR but they need to be used on a regular basis. My old M535i used to fire up every time with no issues, even after being parked up for five or six months. It never let me down and was always up for a good hoon. I ended up selling the old girl to a bloke in Holland for considerably more than I paid for it.
I'm sure, next week I'll see something else that 'fits the bill' perfectly, however, I really think an older Merc does the job nicely (plus the OH seems to like the look it!).
The SL60 is a pretty special car. Not many were sold in the UK: 50 is the figure usually touted around. Production spans the period when AMG went from being an independent tuner to an in house division. The impression I get is that early cars are perhaps a bit more raw; whereas later cars are a bit more like regular production models.
The engine is very special. It is the 32 valve m117 bored and stroked to six litres with improved breathing and high lift cams. The regular m117 is a pretty special engine but this takes it to the next level.
As others have said, the SL500 is a fast car, faster than the 0-60 time suggests, especially above 60mph. I know my SL500 is rarely beaten from, say, 80 to 120. But the SL60 comes with 33% more power and torque. That is a lot. While officially figured at 380bhp so as not to embarrass the flagship SL600 V12, it is generally accepted that the SL60 in fact carries about 420bhp and a similar torque figure in lb/ft. So you're getting really bumper performance. Again, it won't really show in the 0-60 time (which is above 5 seconds) but you will feel it above 100mph, especially.
In addition to the motor, SL60 AMG cars generally have AMG sports suspension and wheels. Again, this is really high quality stuff. The wheels cost £1,000 each!
The only downside is that the equipment spec often is a bit mean. Late model (post 06/98) standard models will have a much higher spec (and better brakes). But they stopped making the SL60 then.
You will not find a late model SL55 AMG or SL73 AMG here in the UK. These were special order cars and, so far as I am aware, none was imported. I have never seen either, more is the pity. Charles Ironside hawked around a 1996 "SL730 AMG", one of these "Sultan of Brunei" cars which always seem to be utter rubbish. It was not a proper SL73 AMG but rather was a SL600 fitted up by AMG with the big motor. The Sl73 AMG came with either 525 or 575bhp and is a monster. The SL55 AMG came with the 354bhp n/a mill currently used in the SLK55 AMG, not the supercharged version. Very occasionally these cars come up for sale on the continent, about 3 every year.
The R129 is a million times better than the R230. However, it has that dangerous combination of toughness and high maintenance costs, meaning too many people really run them down. The styling really is timeless, probably Bruno Sacco's finest hour (or was that the w201 or c126?) although for modern tastes it is not showy enough. These cars will appreciate in value.
The engine is very special. It is the 32 valve m117 bored and stroked to six litres with improved breathing and high lift cams. The regular m117 is a pretty special engine but this takes it to the next level.
As others have said, the SL500 is a fast car, faster than the 0-60 time suggests, especially above 60mph. I know my SL500 is rarely beaten from, say, 80 to 120. But the SL60 comes with 33% more power and torque. That is a lot. While officially figured at 380bhp so as not to embarrass the flagship SL600 V12, it is generally accepted that the SL60 in fact carries about 420bhp and a similar torque figure in lb/ft. So you're getting really bumper performance. Again, it won't really show in the 0-60 time (which is above 5 seconds) but you will feel it above 100mph, especially.
In addition to the motor, SL60 AMG cars generally have AMG sports suspension and wheels. Again, this is really high quality stuff. The wheels cost £1,000 each!
The only downside is that the equipment spec often is a bit mean. Late model (post 06/98) standard models will have a much higher spec (and better brakes). But they stopped making the SL60 then.
You will not find a late model SL55 AMG or SL73 AMG here in the UK. These were special order cars and, so far as I am aware, none was imported. I have never seen either, more is the pity. Charles Ironside hawked around a 1996 "SL730 AMG", one of these "Sultan of Brunei" cars which always seem to be utter rubbish. It was not a proper SL73 AMG but rather was a SL600 fitted up by AMG with the big motor. The Sl73 AMG came with either 525 or 575bhp and is a monster. The SL55 AMG came with the 354bhp n/a mill currently used in the SLK55 AMG, not the supercharged version. Very occasionally these cars come up for sale on the continent, about 3 every year.
The R129 is a million times better than the R230. However, it has that dangerous combination of toughness and high maintenance costs, meaning too many people really run them down. The styling really is timeless, probably Bruno Sacco's finest hour (or was that the w201 or c126?) although for modern tastes it is not showy enough. These cars will appreciate in value.
bob1179 said:
Thanks for the feedback guys.
Some nice pictures and information there.
I understand what you are saying about the SL500 being 9/10s the car the SL600/SL60 is on UK roads. One of the reasons I quite fancy an SL is because I don't do a large mileage and the car would spend a lot of it's time in the garage under a dust sheet.
I know it sounds pretty abhorrent but I just like to have a little 'class' parked in the garage that I can use when I'm home, something connvertible (as I've not had one before), with plenty of poke and it won't throw a wobbler due to not being used for a couple of months at a time.
I would dearly love a TVR but they need to be used on a regular basis. My old M535i used to fire up every time with no issues, even after being parked up for five or six months. It never let me down and was always up for a good hoon. I ended up selling the old girl to a bloke in Holland for considerably more than I paid for it.
I'm sure, next week I'll see something else that 'fits the bill' perfectly, however, I really think an older Merc does the job nicely (plus the OH seems to like the look it!).
From what you have said, I think an SL320 would be perfect for you. You can get a very late model for a very good price with all the toys including pano roof (they will EXACTLY the the same as the SL500 in terms of interior fit, feel, features etc) and the engine is fine...not quick but fine. The SL280 is underpowered.Some nice pictures and information there.
I understand what you are saying about the SL500 being 9/10s the car the SL600/SL60 is on UK roads. One of the reasons I quite fancy an SL is because I don't do a large mileage and the car would spend a lot of it's time in the garage under a dust sheet.
I know it sounds pretty abhorrent but I just like to have a little 'class' parked in the garage that I can use when I'm home, something connvertible (as I've not had one before), with plenty of poke and it won't throw a wobbler due to not being used for a couple of months at a time.
I would dearly love a TVR but they need to be used on a regular basis. My old M535i used to fire up every time with no issues, even after being parked up for five or six months. It never let me down and was always up for a good hoon. I ended up selling the old girl to a bloke in Holland for considerably more than I paid for it.
I'm sure, next week I'll see something else that 'fits the bill' perfectly, however, I really think an older Merc does the job nicely (plus the OH seems to like the look it!).
All you are giving up is the powerplant and if you don't need hooligan power but rather the "R129 Experience" then that is the way to go.
By the way, I curse you - I sold mine since not practical with a baby and now, typing this, I am thinking "Stuff it, I will get one".
:-)
bolide said:
r129sl said:
The SL60 is a pretty special car. Not many were sold in the UK: 50 is the figure usually touted around... These cars will appreciate in value.
I think those are the key pieces of information, particularly when comparing it with a newer modelNick Froome
Well, I've just got off the phone to the chap at Classic Benz Ltd and he has been nothing but helpful and full of knowledge.
He's going to send me some more pictures, details service history etc. of the car so I can get a clearer view of it.
It is an extremely rare motor, and I have to say I really, really like it.
Only problem I have now is insuring the bloody thing, I just got off the phone from my insurance company (who have been insuring my cars and bikes for the last ten years) and they have flatly refused to insure me on the basis that I only spend three months of the year in the UK.
Seems like an odd policy, as the car will be locked up in a heated garage, and they have been insuring my other cars with no issue.
Anyway, I appreciate the feedback and information you have all given me, I shall keep you informed as to what happens next...
He's going to send me some more pictures, details service history etc. of the car so I can get a clearer view of it.
It is an extremely rare motor, and I have to say I really, really like it.
Only problem I have now is insuring the bloody thing, I just got off the phone from my insurance company (who have been insuring my cars and bikes for the last ten years) and they have flatly refused to insure me on the basis that I only spend three months of the year in the UK.
Seems like an odd policy, as the car will be locked up in a heated garage, and they have been insuring my other cars with no issue.
Anyway, I appreciate the feedback and information you have all given me, I shall keep you informed as to what happens next...
oooohhhhhh wwwwooooowwwww, that really seems the business, cost about double of my very nice 500SL but rarety and you only get what you pay for must make it a good buy. Plus just think how much depreciation on a new or newer car would be and there you have a fair sum to pay for the upkeep of an appreciating asset. No contest, buy it.
bob1179 said:
Well, I've just got off the phone to the chap at Classic Benz Ltd and he has been nothing but helpful and full of knowledge.
He's going to send me some more pictures, details service history etc. of the car so I can get a clearer view of it.
It is an extremely rare motor, and I have to say I really, really like it.
Only problem I have now is insuring the bloody thing, I just got off the phone from my insurance company (who have been insuring my cars and bikes for the last ten years) and they have flatly refused to insure me on the basis that I only spend three months of the year in the UK.
Seems like an odd policy, as the car will be locked up in a heated garage, and they have been insuring my other cars with no issue.
Anyway, I appreciate the feedback and information you have all given me, I shall keep you informed as to what happens next...
Try insuring it on a classic policy through www.peterbestinsurance.co.uk.He's going to send me some more pictures, details service history etc. of the car so I can get a clearer view of it.
It is an extremely rare motor, and I have to say I really, really like it.
Only problem I have now is insuring the bloody thing, I just got off the phone from my insurance company (who have been insuring my cars and bikes for the last ten years) and they have flatly refused to insure me on the basis that I only spend three months of the year in the UK.
Seems like an odd policy, as the car will be locked up in a heated garage, and they have been insuring my other cars with no issue.
Anyway, I appreciate the feedback and information you have all given me, I shall keep you informed as to what happens next...
They are one of the MB owners clubs recommended insurers.
bob1179 said:
I just got off the phone from my insurance company (who have been insuring my cars and bikes for the last ten years) and they have flatly refused to insure me on the basis that I only spend three months of the year in the UK.
I have just had a buyer pull out of an E320 Coupe because he can't get insurance. He is resident abroad and was planning to keep the car in the UKI was recommended to try Primo PLC for insurance. None of the classic insurers we tried would cover him (flat refusal) because he is not a UK resident. It's an underwriter's requirement, evidently
Nick Froome
Thanks for the advice regarding insurance.
I will try the recommended insurers today and see what feedback I get. It seems an odd policy to be honest, I thought that I would be less of a risk if the car is parked up in the garage for most of the year? What does it really matter if I am away from home?
I will try the recommended insurers today and see what feedback I get. It seems an odd policy to be honest, I thought that I would be less of a risk if the car is parked up in the garage for most of the year? What does it really matter if I am away from home?
2 things. I know people who live abroad and store their cars with professional outfits...with no issues with insurance. If you did that, wouldn't the insurance company be happy? Try Nowell & Richards - good service.
Secondly, why pay such a premium for a car whose value and current (non-classic) status makes it (a) difficult to sell-on and (b) still liable to depreciate?
Surely a decent SL500 for half that money is the more sensible buy?
Secondly, why pay such a premium for a car whose value and current (non-classic) status makes it (a) difficult to sell-on and (b) still liable to depreciate?
Surely a decent SL500 for half that money is the more sensible buy?
rubystone said:
Surely a decent SL500 for half that money is the more sensible buy?
were my initial thoughts, though only 50 made in RHD I'd say its a sound investment in low mileage format, if resale is not important then yeh 500, not sure you'd feel like your driving anything special with the SL60, just smug that your not loosing money with its up keep, which might help ownership prospectFunny you should mention storage with a professional outfit, as this was my intended route due to the fact the garage is full of bikes! I will mention this to the insurance people and see what the score is regarding this issue.
As to value and resale of the car, it depends on how you look at it really. This particular car is just under nineteen grand, which is a hefty sum of cash for a thirteen year old motor. However, it is a rare car and has lost most of the money it will probably lose, if it is not at the bottom of its depreciation curve it is almost there. I would rather buy and run this, than buy a new well specced Focus that would cost the same to buy but be worth five thousand in three years time.
The other thing to take into account is that I don't really care too much about depreciation and resale, I want something I can drive when I come home and have some fun in. If I do buy it, it will be looked after and have anything doing to it that it requires. It certainly won't be treated as a museum piece, there is not much point owning such a car if you are not going to drive it. I will worry about moving it on when the time comes.
I do value the comments and advice though, please keep them comming.
As to value and resale of the car, it depends on how you look at it really. This particular car is just under nineteen grand, which is a hefty sum of cash for a thirteen year old motor. However, it is a rare car and has lost most of the money it will probably lose, if it is not at the bottom of its depreciation curve it is almost there. I would rather buy and run this, than buy a new well specced Focus that would cost the same to buy but be worth five thousand in three years time.
The other thing to take into account is that I don't really care too much about depreciation and resale, I want something I can drive when I come home and have some fun in. If I do buy it, it will be looked after and have anything doing to it that it requires. It certainly won't be treated as a museum piece, there is not much point owning such a car if you are not going to drive it. I will worry about moving it on when the time comes.
I do value the comments and advice though, please keep them comming.
bob1179 said:
This particular car is just under nineteen grand, which is a hefty sum of cash for a thirteen year old motor. However, it is a rare car and has lost most of the money it will probably lose, if it is not at the bottom of its depreciation curve it is almost there....I don't really care too much about depreciation and resale, I want something I can drive when I come home and have some fun in. If I do buy it, it will be looked after and have anything doing to it that it requires. It certainly won't be treated as a museum piece, there is not much point owning such a car if you are not going to drive it.
You need an SL500 then. Save £8,000 or more, get most of the performance and as with any "classic/appreciating asset/etc etc etc" the more miles they pile on the less 'collectable'.The various "specialists" always happen to get low mileage Mercs and charge a massive premium, which people pay because *gasp* low miles. Increase the miles and it is devalued. So it sits. Becomes a garage queen etc.
I absolutely LOVE the CL600 int he C140 shape and know of a 9,000 mile one for sale (yes, 9,000 miles)by a private seller. Top money wanted but to me, what is the point. Drive it and enjoy it and it will soon become just another CL with a massive hit on value. So it would then have to sit and be taken out on high days, Sunday to church etc (the 'sales speak' you see in ads).
They will do 300,000 miles for crying out loud if maintained right - that is a LOT of enjoyment from driving.
So, if you want to use and enjoy the car, get an SL500, save a packet on the purchase price and maintenance (see if you can get an EZL module for the SL60 when it goes....££££££...if and only if you can get one), and drive and enjoy it.
The problem with an "appreciating asset" whose status relies on low mileage is that as soon as you put miles on it, it starts to become less attractive....
And who determines what is an appreciating asset?....Look at Ferrari Testarossas - appreciating asset?...errrr.....they've stuck at £30-£35k for oooh the last 15 years.....and as anyone will tell you are harder to get shot of than Chlamydia ...but still the trade likes to talk them up.
In the SL world, I would say that an R107 SL500 is an appreciating asset though, but I can't imagine anyone being able to retire on the back of even the appreciation on one of them, but they ought to be easier to sell on than a 129 due to the sheer numbers of the latter and their better build quality.
But who am I to judge? What I do know is that any 129 SL is a fine car - often overlooked by the population at large (thank heavens). Whatever you buy, you won't be disappointed.
And who determines what is an appreciating asset?....Look at Ferrari Testarossas - appreciating asset?...errrr.....they've stuck at £30-£35k for oooh the last 15 years.....and as anyone will tell you are harder to get shot of than Chlamydia ...but still the trade likes to talk them up.
In the SL world, I would say that an R107 SL500 is an appreciating asset though, but I can't imagine anyone being able to retire on the back of even the appreciation on one of them, but they ought to be easier to sell on than a 129 due to the sheer numbers of the latter and their better build quality.
But who am I to judge? What I do know is that any 129 SL is a fine car - often overlooked by the population at large (thank heavens). Whatever you buy, you won't be disappointed.
I agree that you are both right regarding the SL500, performance wise it will be more than adequate on the road.
I am just a little childish I suppose and want to own something a bit rare. It's one of the reasons I loved my M535i, in the three years I owned it, I never saw another one on the road.
Regarding useage and mileage, the car already has 81,000 on the clock so isn't really a 'low miler', and even when I use it, I won't put a huge mileage on it. I only spend two to three weeks a time at home every three months, when the weather is really good (or just dry) I tend to be out on the bikes.
Valuing a car like this I suppose is quite difficult, as you rightly mentioned, the R107 SL500 really does seem to be an appreciating classic, but I love the 90's SLs. There aren't any other SL60s (that I can find) for sale anywhere else to compare this too, but after seeing the pictures and reading the description of this particular car it seems very well cared for.
At the end of the day, I am under no illusion that if I was to buy this motor, I would lose money on it, and to me, it really doesn't matter too much. It's a nice car, that is a bit different, rare, and has a big engine and lots of power and torque!
By the way, if anybody does know of a clean SL500 or SL600, please let me know as I would love to take a look.
I am just a little childish I suppose and want to own something a bit rare. It's one of the reasons I loved my M535i, in the three years I owned it, I never saw another one on the road.
Regarding useage and mileage, the car already has 81,000 on the clock so isn't really a 'low miler', and even when I use it, I won't put a huge mileage on it. I only spend two to three weeks a time at home every three months, when the weather is really good (or just dry) I tend to be out on the bikes.
Valuing a car like this I suppose is quite difficult, as you rightly mentioned, the R107 SL500 really does seem to be an appreciating classic, but I love the 90's SLs. There aren't any other SL60s (that I can find) for sale anywhere else to compare this too, but after seeing the pictures and reading the description of this particular car it seems very well cared for.
At the end of the day, I am under no illusion that if I was to buy this motor, I would lose money on it, and to me, it really doesn't matter too much. It's a nice car, that is a bit different, rare, and has a big engine and lots of power and torque!
By the way, if anybody does know of a clean SL500 or SL600, please let me know as I would love to take a look.
Edited by bob1179 on Tuesday 7th September 14:33
Bob,
Here's a couple of links to what seem like decent SL500s. The silver one I was all set to go and look at after I saw the one I eventually bought. Its been around for a while and the price has dropped by £1k from when I first saw it. The blue one looks gorgeous!
http://www.hallmark-cars.com/vehicles%20sales/clas...
http://www.broadstonecars.co.uk/21560/stocklist.ht...
Here's a couple of links to what seem like decent SL500s. The silver one I was all set to go and look at after I saw the one I eventually bought. Its been around for a while and the price has dropped by £1k from when I first saw it. The blue one looks gorgeous!
http://www.hallmark-cars.com/vehicles%20sales/clas...
http://www.broadstonecars.co.uk/21560/stocklist.ht...
Gassing Station | Mercedes | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff