Lancia Integrale
Discussion
Evo 2 has a smaller turbo - spools up quicker but not as quick as 16v/Evo (which are very similar in terms of the engine).
So many myths about Integrales - rust is not a huge issue on most. My insurance is £300 pa (3000 miles pa). Do not buy RHD regardless of who did the conversion.
Running costs are NOT massive. Walkers are very expensive but there are lots of other specialists who are not - Auto Integrale in Reading charge no more than you'd expect. They also know the car inside out so don't charge 14 hours labour for a clutch unlike Fiat dealers and possibly Walkers.
The place to read all about them is www.evoforum.net but be careful, they bite. Read the FAQ before you post - you should be able to find everything you need to know from there.
There are often a number of good cars for sale on there too.
If you're unsure email me - I'm not an expert but I chose my Integrale after wanting for over 10 years and 4 years (on and off) looking. I've had mine nearly two years now.
dan
So many myths about Integrales - rust is not a huge issue on most. My insurance is £300 pa (3000 miles pa). Do not buy RHD regardless of who did the conversion.
Running costs are NOT massive. Walkers are very expensive but there are lots of other specialists who are not - Auto Integrale in Reading charge no more than you'd expect. They also know the car inside out so don't charge 14 hours labour for a clutch unlike Fiat dealers and possibly Walkers.
The place to read all about them is www.evoforum.net but be careful, they bite. Read the FAQ before you post - you should be able to find everything you need to know from there.
There are often a number of good cars for sale on there too.
If you're unsure email me - I'm not an expert but I chose my Integrale after wanting for over 10 years and 4 years (on and off) looking. I've had mine nearly two years now.
dan
The driving experience is a lot more organic than the jap rally replicas that came after it, but the downside is it will seem a tad slow against the latest Mitsubishi Evos. But give me mechanical feel over electronic trickery any day.
They are very tuneable (300hp plus is no prob, especially on the earlier big turbo Evo 1), although the work must be done by a recognised Integrale specialist - my personal recommendation would be John Whalley in Bishops Stortford. Lovely bloke, must be in his 60's and still rallies one I believe.
I have a dream of one day buying back my Evo 2 which I sold for a paltry price (sob) two years ago, stripping it out, roll cage, harnesses, go to town on the engine, Group N exhaust etc, then turn up at Autocross and blitz all the jap stuff. Unfortunately I am a crap driver. Ah well, it's just a dream.
They are very tuneable (300hp plus is no prob, especially on the earlier big turbo Evo 1), although the work must be done by a recognised Integrale specialist - my personal recommendation would be John Whalley in Bishops Stortford. Lovely bloke, must be in his 60's and still rallies one I believe.
I have a dream of one day buying back my Evo 2 which I sold for a paltry price (sob) two years ago, stripping it out, roll cage, harnesses, go to town on the engine, Group N exhaust etc, then turn up at Autocross and blitz all the jap stuff. Unfortunately I am a crap driver. Ah well, it's just a dream.
www.kankku.co.uk/shop/rallya.htm
Just round the corner from me, Call Nick, know's his Evo's
The Martini one is a fiver short of £20k, only 15k miles though.
I have to walk past everyday and I always stop for a quick dribble
Just round the corner from me, Call Nick, know's his Evo's
The Martini one is a fiver short of £20k, only 15k miles though.
I have to walk past everyday and I always stop for a quick dribble
Rust. My brother had a 2wd Delta, mint when he bought it and even though he treated the body it rusted down each side along a seam. It took lots of welding to sort.
I would still have an Inte. even now with all the modern machines around.
Another point to ponder, you do not have small accidents in an Integrale!
John
I would still have an Inte. even now with all the modern machines around.
Another point to ponder, you do not have small accidents in an Integrale!
John
One thing I do not understand is how horrendously overpriced some cars are. What's with all the 20k+ cars on the kanku website? Surely some kind of joke?
It's a great car (one of the greatest ever IMO), but not so long ago if you looked hard enough ten grand would buy you a fairly decent Evo 1. At that price, an Evo 2 might be rough and best avoided (although I sold a good Evo 2 in a hurry for less than that, so you never know).
I'm not sure what the prices are doing now as I haven't followed the market in a while. Some kind of speculative thing going on?
It's a great car (one of the greatest ever IMO), but not so long ago if you looked hard enough ten grand would buy you a fairly decent Evo 1. At that price, an Evo 2 might be rough and best avoided (although I sold a good Evo 2 in a hurry for less than that, so you never know).
I'm not sure what the prices are doing now as I haven't followed the market in a while. Some kind of speculative thing going on?
I'm with you on this one.
Would still love one, 4 door, goes like stink, could even live with LHD but...
I just don't get the pricing...now I know all cars loose money, some more than others. But I suppose it the old Boxtaaaa vs 911 scenario. You can get a near identical looking car 16v or evo I for £6,7,8K or spend now up to £20K for an evo 2, albeit a far superior car.
I just don't want to buy a car I KNOW will loose a lot of money. Make any sense at all?
An I have heard running costs are high, especially if something goes wrong!
Edited to add: I have just looked at the Kakknununuk website and I don't understand this desc of one of their cars:
Giallo Ferrari (New and first registered inin 2000)
1992 car with 2 owners and This car is not even 4 years old and has covered just 8000 documneted UK miles. Ferrari yellow with black leather interior, 16" wheels, cd, air con, abs, Category 1 alarm/immobiliser, tracker, new condition. £21495
This car is not even 4 years old....yes it is....it's 12...it's only been registered for 4.
>> Edited by burnt on Sunday 3rd October 13:54
Would still love one, 4 door, goes like stink, could even live with LHD but...
I just don't get the pricing...now I know all cars loose money, some more than others. But I suppose it the old Boxtaaaa vs 911 scenario. You can get a near identical looking car 16v or evo I for £6,7,8K or spend now up to £20K for an evo 2, albeit a far superior car.
I just don't want to buy a car I KNOW will loose a lot of money. Make any sense at all?
An I have heard running costs are high, especially if something goes wrong!
Edited to add: I have just looked at the Kakknununuk website and I don't understand this desc of one of their cars:
Giallo Ferrari (New and first registered inin 2000)
1992 car with 2 owners and This car is not even 4 years old and has covered just 8000 documneted UK miles. Ferrari yellow with black leather interior, 16" wheels, cd, air con, abs, Category 1 alarm/immobiliser, tracker, new condition. £21495
This car is not even 4 years old....yes it is....it's 12...it's only been registered for 4.
>> Edited by burnt on Sunday 3rd October 13:54
I had a Evo 1 for a while, fantastic but pricey to run. Count on approx £2k per year to keep one in tip-top health
Most of the websites / forums mentioned already are well worth checking, especially the Evoforum. There's a specialist in Kent I used for servicing called TNI Motorsport, who will have advice and possibly some examples lying around.
Things to check for:
Suspension wear: it's a heavy, fast car so suspension bushes need attention.
Engine: fairly bombproof, but needs good cambelt care (shorter intervals than the manual says)
Bodywork: goes without saying to avoid crashed ones! there are some that have been abused. Rust not a particularly bad issue considering it's Italian, check the line along the top of rear window and around the windscreen.
Geometry, as mentioned earlier goes out of whack easily, check inside edge of tyres for uneven wear.
Sadly, it seems that there aren't many good examples of this beauty left. Go for a low mileage unmolested Evo2, avoid RHD conversions and sunroofs.
Most of the websites / forums mentioned already are well worth checking, especially the Evoforum. There's a specialist in Kent I used for servicing called TNI Motorsport, who will have advice and possibly some examples lying around.
Things to check for:
Suspension wear: it's a heavy, fast car so suspension bushes need attention.
Engine: fairly bombproof, but needs good cambelt care (shorter intervals than the manual says)
Bodywork: goes without saying to avoid crashed ones! there are some that have been abused. Rust not a particularly bad issue considering it's Italian, check the line along the top of rear window and around the windscreen.
Geometry, as mentioned earlier goes out of whack easily, check inside edge of tyres for uneven wear.
Sadly, it seems that there aren't many good examples of this beauty left. Go for a low mileage unmolested Evo2, avoid RHD conversions and sunroofs.
The Evo 2 is not a far superior car - it's a more road orientated version of the others.
The Evo 2 is so expensive because of the limited editions that people feel might be collectable.
Depends why you're buying the car really - if you're going to drive it then get a good Evo 1, if you're going to wash it and treat it like an investment then get an Evo 2.
The Evo 2 is so expensive because of the limited editions that people feel might be collectable.
Depends why you're buying the car really - if you're going to drive it then get a good Evo 1, if you're going to wash it and treat it like an investment then get an Evo 2.
danhf said:
The Evo 2 is not a far superior car - it's a more road orientated version of the others.
The Evo 2 is so expensive because of the limited editions that people feel might be collectable.
Depends why you're buying the car really - if you're going to drive it then get a good Evo 1, if you're going to wash it and treat it like an investment then get an Evo 2.
Sorry but that's another misconception that's been bandied around for a while - there are no such things as Evo I, II or III. All cars are known as an Evo as explained to me by Fiat SpA when I had to register a Swiss car in the UK.
The main differences between an early and late Evo is that the later car had a catalyst and a small increase in power to negate the waste restriction, 16" alloys (as opposed to 15"), colour coded
rain gutters and Recaro SRD driver and passenger seats.
>> Edited by AC79xxx on Monday 4th October 09:43
AC79xxx said:
The Evo 2 is not a far superior car - it's a more road orientated version of the others.
The Evo 2 is so expensive because of the limited editions that people feel might be collectable.
Depends why you're buying the car really - if you're going to drive it then get a good Evo 1, if you're going to wash it and treat it like an investment then get an Evo 2.
Sorry but that's another misconception that's been bandied around for a while - there are no such things as Evo I, II or III. All cars are known as an Evo as explained to me by Fiat SpA when I had to register a Swiss car in the UK.
The main differences between an early and late Evo is that the later car had a catalyst and a small increase in power to negate the waste restriction, 16" alloys (as opposed to 15"), colour coded
rain gutters and Recaro SRD driver and passenger seats.
>> Edited by AC79xxx on Monday 4th October 09:43
Nice thought, but no. They are different. Read evocorner and learn.
Also be aware that Swiss Evo's only has the 8v head fitted (to do with their environmental laws). Avoid them like the plague as they're not worth the money unless seriously cheap or spectacularly clean.
If you're after an Evo rust shouldn't be a problem unless it's been involved in a shunt and has been poorly repaired. Areas to be aware of are around the windscreen and where the roof folds down into the rain gutter at the top of the rear hatch. There's a big rubber seal which collects grit and muck which wears the paint away every time the hatch is opened (cleverly the factory didn't galvanise this bit of the body work
).
Front wishbone bushes need to be changed every couple of years or so as they're right at the front of the car and the rubber pesrishes easily. You'll know when it's time judging by the state of the front tyres but luckily the parts only cost about £20 a side and it's a 10 minute job anyone can do. The handling is transformed and it's money well spent.
If you're looking at a 90/91 Evo have a look behind the spare wheel in the boot for the intercooler water bag. Only 500 cars were made with this kit but it wasn't plumbed in from the factory. It's a couple of hours fiddling but it makes quite a difference in the summer, shame the water doesn't last terribly long
Pound for pound I think these cars are fantastic value for money but only if you stay away from the 'special' editions which are pretty much only paint, and in some editions like the World Rally Champion, livery jobs. A standard car in either red or metallic grey will be £2,500 - £4,000 cheaper than a dealer edition or sedici with similar mileage or £10k+ cheaper than a Club Italia edition (that's if you can find one).
Mine ran like clockwork for the 3 years I had it and cost lots less to maintain than the E30 M3 I bought to replace it as spares are readily available through Fiat or specialists and are reasonably cheap.
If you're after an Evo rust shouldn't be a problem unless it's been involved in a shunt and has been poorly repaired. Areas to be aware of are around the windscreen and where the roof folds down into the rain gutter at the top of the rear hatch. There's a big rubber seal which collects grit and muck which wears the paint away every time the hatch is opened (cleverly the factory didn't galvanise this bit of the body work
). Front wishbone bushes need to be changed every couple of years or so as they're right at the front of the car and the rubber pesrishes easily. You'll know when it's time judging by the state of the front tyres but luckily the parts only cost about £20 a side and it's a 10 minute job anyone can do. The handling is transformed and it's money well spent.
If you're looking at a 90/91 Evo have a look behind the spare wheel in the boot for the intercooler water bag. Only 500 cars were made with this kit but it wasn't plumbed in from the factory. It's a couple of hours fiddling but it makes quite a difference in the summer, shame the water doesn't last terribly long
Pound for pound I think these cars are fantastic value for money but only if you stay away from the 'special' editions which are pretty much only paint, and in some editions like the World Rally Champion, livery jobs. A standard car in either red or metallic grey will be £2,500 - £4,000 cheaper than a dealer edition or sedici with similar mileage or £10k+ cheaper than a Club Italia edition (that's if you can find one).
Mine ran like clockwork for the 3 years I had it and cost lots less to maintain than the E30 M3 I bought to replace it as spares are readily available through Fiat or specialists and are reasonably cheap.
lanciachris said:
Nice thought, but no. They are different. Read evocorner and learn.
However well intentioned the guy at evocorner is I'm quite sure the guy I spoke to at Fiat in Italy (who incidentaly homolgated each modification of the road cars) knows a thing or two more. He also got incredibly pissed off when I mentioned the words Evo II, he kept muttering that no such thing exists...
>> Edited by AC79xxx on Monday 4th October 11:18
I had an 8v (F123 TPA) from new to about three years old and loved it. It was way more capable than I was, so after a drive across the Pennines I was sent by some friends to see John Lyons for some lessons.
Much livelier than a quattro (although I've only driven a fairly tired one) or a Impezza.
Reliablity was fine, athough I was fastidious about service and the bills were high.
The major weak spot were the wheels which would buckle if you kerbed it or hit a large pothole (I did both).
Like people here have said avoid the RHD but the LHD has some awkward blind spots - notably pulling on to a major road from a slip road.
Great steering wheel (I never understood why some people swapped them out for third part ones) but flimsy switchgear.
Simon
Much livelier than a quattro (although I've only driven a fairly tired one) or a Impezza.
Reliablity was fine, athough I was fastidious about service and the bills were high.
The major weak spot were the wheels which would buckle if you kerbed it or hit a large pothole (I did both).
Like people here have said avoid the RHD but the LHD has some awkward blind spots - notably pulling on to a major road from a slip road.
Great steering wheel (I never understood why some people swapped them out for third part ones) but flimsy switchgear.
Simon
simonrockman said:
IMuch livelier than a quattro (although I've only driven a fairly tired one) or a Impezza.
I'm slowly bringing my '91 20valve Quat back up to as new spec - when it's done I'd be interested (not to try to prove anything - just interested) to drive it back to back with a good Integrale. I expect the Integrale will be more nimble, maybe a little faster low down, but maybe less relaxing on a long run (where I'd take the Quattro over just about anything).
I'd certainly expect the Inte' to be nippier than an early Quattro - they're laggy as hell.
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