Alfa 4C - the reality?????

[Alfahorn]

RichB said:

Not really that interested so I'll give you the short answers;
- No I honestly don't value their opinions, else I'd buy nothing but BMWs and Porsches. I do look at the pictures though.
- I've driven enough cars to know what I like and what I don't and buy on that basis.
- Motoring journalism is so much more about the journalist than the car these day, the days of high quality auto journalism are long gone. Thus, "Dickie slipped the car into 3rd while skilfully applying opposite lock on the treacherous Welsh roads. Meanwhile super snapper and ace steersman Johno' demonstrated he is in fact a driving deity by taming the flat six, fire-breathing monster." As you say, all bks - Evo is one of the worst.

I don't enjoy Evo either, I've tried. I really enjoy the writing in Car though.

[Fantuzzi]

Alfahorn said:

For a smart chap it seems fairly apparent you've made your mind up on the car without any experience of it. How can this be? If you've driven the car then you are then able to say, yeah I agree with the journos or not. It's seems to me some people read comments made by journalists and then present these as their opinions without any direct experience, very strange.

Why is it strange?

Every review has commented on the funny steering, that is where my problem lies - I love good steering feel. I see no good reason why the 30+ journalists who commented would, lie/all be wrong.

Why, if steering is big deal to me, would I I suddenly think the 4c will be up to my standards, if everyone who has driven it said that is its one major flaw?

Why would I be a fool to trust the mags collective comments given I cant test the car my self?

[portabello]

if i had the money i would buy one in a heartbeat

[Alfahorn]

Fantuzzi said:

Alfahorn said:

For a smart chap it seems fairly apparent you've made your mind up on the car without any experience of it. How can this be? If you've driven the car then you are then able to say, yeah I agree with the journos or not. It's seems to me some people read comments made by journalists and then present these as their opinions without any direct experience, very strange.

Why is it strange?

Every review has commented on the funny steering, that is where my problem lies - I love good steering feel. I see no good reason why the 30+ journalists who commented would, lie/all be wrong.

Why, if steering is big deal to me, would I I suddenly think the 4c will be up to my standards, if everyone who has driven it said that is its one major flaw?

Why would I be a fool to trust the mags collective comments given I cant test the car my self?

Who said you're a fool to trust the journalists? What I don't understand is how it appears you seem to be passing off the opinions of journalists as your own without having driven the car. They said it so I'll agree with them. Extraordinary, but you don't seem to see it that way, that's your prerogative.

Edited by Alfahorn on Saturday 25th January 17:46

[portabello]

i love the 4 c, simple really ,, for me anyway

[cheddar]

What I've read about the 4C so far has been balanced, thoughtful and insightful, if anything the journo's have held back from using negative terms and instead extolled the finer points, mainly the looks.

Steve Sutcliffe video - mucking about on track in the 4C, Base Cayman and GT86, real world irrelevance but worth a watch if just for his giggling:

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-video/video-alfa-rome...

[Fantuzzi]

Alfahorn said:

Fantuzzi said:

Alfahorn said:

For a smart chap it seems fairly apparent you've made your mind up on the car without any experience of it. How can this be? If you've driven the car then you are then able to say, yeah I agree with the journos or not. It's seems to me some people read comments made by journalists and then present these as their opinions without any direct experience, very strange.

Why is it strange?

Every review has commented on the funny steering, that is where my problem lies - I love good steering feel. I see no good reason why the 30+ journalists who commented would, lie/all be wrong.

Why, if steering is big deal to me, would I I suddenly think the 4c will be up to my standards, if everyone who has driven it said that is its one major flaw?

Why would I be a fool to trust the mags collective comments given I cant test the car my self?

Who said you're a fool to trust the journalists? What I don't understand is how it appears you seem to be passing off the opinions of journalists as your own without having driven the car. They said it so I'll agree with them. Extraordinary, but you don't seem to see it that way, that's your prerogative.

Edited by Alfahorn on Saturday 25th January 17:46

The foolishness was implied, heavily, by you.

I'm a little confused, in the car nut community, many people hold opinions on cars they haven't driven, you do even if you don't admit it - you would rather have a 288 GTO than a ford cougar, yet I bet you have driven neither.

I have never claimed the opinions are my own as such - I think you are reading too much into it.

Given the small number of 4c, let alone the number that have been test driven by customers (I haven't heard any potential owners mentioning any test drives on PH), it was pretty obvious the opinions were those of the motoring press as a whole.

Lets look at my 'plagiarised' comments - I note the dodgy steering in my first post, I note that the Elise is better as a road racer for the money and the cayman is more composed/well rounded as a whole, then the arguments began (which I started so sorry Cheddar but hey I'm bored...).

I don't really think they warrant your view that I am regurgitating magazine extracts, much of this is pretty clear - 1300kg car aimed at mass audience will have a better ride and more room than the tiny and hard 4c, and saying a supercharged Elise will be a cheaper car for the thrills is rather accurate given its list price is what 36k?



Can I ask you Alfahorn what it was about the Alfas you have owned/own that made them better than their rivals in your opinion of course!

[jacklewisno1]

this thread reminds me of this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnTmBjk-M0c

[Fantuzzi]

jacklewisno1 said:

this thread reminds me of this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnTmBjk-M0c

You're annoyingly right...

[Chim]

The Hamster took it for a spin, very much like his view of the car

http://www.topgear.com/uk/car-news/richard-hammond...

[rijmij99]

Stolen from some bloke in the comments section of that TG article (which are some of the worst I've ever seen)

"Porsche do things right. Alfa do the right things"

[Alfahorn]

Fantuzzi said:

I'm a little confused, in the car nut community, many people hold opinions on cars they haven't driven, you do even if you don't admit it - you would rather have a 288 GTO than a ford cougar, yet I bet you have driven neither.

I hold the opinion that aesthetically I love the 288, I've no idea how it drives. The only Ferrari's I've driven are the 328 GTS and the 458 Italia.

Ive driven the Cougar V6 is has a great engine, but little else about it appealed to me.

Fantuzzi said:

Can I ask you Alfahorn what it was about the Alfas you have owned/own that made them better than their rivals in your opinion of course!

I don't claim the Alfas I've owned to be better than their rivals on the market at the time, It's personal preference. I've loved all my Alfa's for different reasons. Unfortunately I have to settle for a diesel these days as I do 20,000 miles a year.

[jacklewisno1]

Chim said:

The Hamster took it for a spin, very much like his view of the car

http://www.topgear.com/uk/car-news/richard-hammond...

I agree with Hamster on this. I cant imagine there are many people who are genuinely choosing between Cayman and 4c. I imagine most buyers will choose it because its a mid engined Alfa that weighs less than a ton. Not because it could be better than the competition.

Quite how a mid engined rear wheel drive light car can understeer so much though is a bit bizarre.

[cheddar]

jacklewisno1 said:

Quite how a mid engined rear wheel drive light car can understeer so much though is a bit bizarre.

I guess Alfa are covering themselves by engineering understeer into a lightweight, swb, mid engined car that might otherwise let go quite promptly at the limit.

It's a fine balance building a chassis with a safety net between twitchy oversteer or plough-on understeer and they may have gone a little too far towards the latter.

We'd all like the choice of an occasional dab of oppo to confirm our status as an armchair driving god but, without a huge bung, it appears that it might not be available here.

Early days though........

[Brompty]

It's strange how this particular thread turned out.

Has anyone other than a journalist actually driven the 4C and can give an opinion? It is great looking car, but Lotus were already making very similar cars and group tests indicate that the Alfa is great in certain areas but a Cayman is better overall. If I had the money I would just try all three, assuming I could get my hands on the Alfa (aren't they all sold?).

[AML]

I got very excited when I first heard about the 4c. Started squirreling money away and waited........and waited and here I am still waiting.
Well actually that's a bit of a fib I got so fed up with the delays that I test drove a Cayman R, succumbed and 2 years down the line am still smitten. The handling, noise from the flat 6 with sports exhaust and the uniform control weights keep me very happy indeed
Would still love to try a 4c, but to date haven't even seen one in the flesh. Having avidly read all the reviews will be surprised if it tempts me out of the R- maybe the gen2 once it's been fettled?

[Fantuzzi]

AML said:

I got very excited when I first heard about the 4c. Started squirreling money away and waited........and waited and here I am still waiting.
Well actually that's a bit of a fib I got so fed up with the delays that I test drove a Cayman R, succumbed and 2 years down the line am still smitten. The handling, noise from the flat 6 with sports exhaust and the uniform control weights keep me very happy indeed
Would still love to try a 4c, but to date haven't even seen one in the flesh. Having avidly read all the reviews will be surprised if it tempts me out of the R- maybe the gen2 once it's been fettled?

Cayman R is pretty awesome car, meant to be wicked fun.

If you get the chance to drive a 4c, write up on here your thoughts.

[braddo]

jacklewisno1 said:

Quite how a mid engined rear wheel drive light car can understeer so much though is a bit bizarre.

I had an Elise S1 for a couple of years (on stock suspension/geo) and I too was surprised at how much it understeered at first. But then you realise it only has a few hundred kilos of weight over the front wheels, so if you don't turn in under braking the low-speed understeer seems comical.

For high speed cornering, however, the balance was brilliant. Banishing the low speed understeer would have made the car too tail happy in high speed cornering, so learning to drive around the low speed understeer is a (worthwhile) compromise to make.

I expect the Alfa's setup is along the same lines. It's a short, light mid-engined car - it is not the kind of car to set up for easy oversteer from the factory.

Then again, Chris Harris didn't have a problem doing it on track and he's the journalist whose driving experience I trust the most.

[Geoffcapes]

In a case for the defence. Everyone (every journo) said the Focus RS was crap when it first came out.

Now it's a legend.

That's all. I rest my case.

[Fantuzzi]

braddo said:

jacklewisno1 said:

Quite how a mid engined rear wheel drive light car can understeer so much though is a bit bizarre.

I had an Elise S1 for a couple of years (on stock suspension/geo) and I too was surprised at how much it understeered at first. But then you realise it only has a few hundred kilos of weight over the front wheels, so if you don't turn in under braking the low-speed understeer seems comical.

For high speed cornering, however, the balance was brilliant. Banishing the low speed understeer would have made the car too tail happy in high speed cornering, so learning to drive around the low speed understeer is a (worthwhile) compromise to make.

I expect the Alfa's setup is along the same lines. It's a short, light mid-engined car - it is not the kind of car to set up for easy oversteer from the factory.

Then again, Chris Harris didn't have a problem doing it on track and he's the journalist whose driving experience I trust the most.

Im surprised to hear that about the s1, I haven't heard any owners say that, what tires where you running out of interest?