Alfa 4C - the reality?????
Discussion
braddo said:
Fantuzzi said:
I'm not denying it is a fast car, I've never said that, a light weight car with a decent power output will be quick not matter how successful the car is at delivering consistent steeling feel or weighting.
The goodwood times are not surprising given the nature of the track and the nature of the 4C.
You're blowing the steering criticisms way, way out of proportion and frankly it has ruined the thread. The goodwood times are not surprising given the nature of the track and the nature of the 4C.
Stop going on about it; it's just regurgitating a few journalists' opinions and frankly I wonder if their opinions get distorted anyway - they are so used to driving modern cars with synthetic steering feel in their day job that perhaps the 4C gets criticism just because its feel is different. I find your idea of the 'distorted' view rather comic, given the most highly praised cars in the field of steering are the elise and caterham - hardly synthetic tech robots are they?
Tuscan-blue said:
I am sure that the zero torsion is the point why the steering feels different.
As all ready mentioned I have an Elise MK1 with short rack.
It is true that both cars feel very different concerning the steering.
But I can´t say I prefer the Elise.
The 4C feels more like a race car than the Elise.
A race car with A/C, stereo, really good heater, Leather seats etc........
The packaging point is an interesting one. And if you prefer the 4c to the elise, then that is a rather big statement and one I am sure Alfa will be pleased that you are making! Although how united people would be in joining you in that is another issue. I am glad you are using the 4C as intended, you seem to be enjoying it an awful lot, perhaps you should start a thread in readers cars section, Im sure people would be interested in hearing about the 4c ownership in more detail.As all ready mentioned I have an Elise MK1 with short rack.
It is true that both cars feel very different concerning the steering.
But I can´t say I prefer the Elise.
The 4C feels more like a race car than the Elise.
A race car with A/C, stereo, really good heater, Leather seats etc........
Tuscan-blue said:
Everybody who loves a Elise / Exise will love the 4C
Everybody who loves the comfort of a Cayman won´t like the 4C
Everybody who loves the dynamic of a Cayman and doesn´t care about comfort will love the 4C more than his Porsche.
And I am not talking about the look / style, I am only talking about the driving experience.
I agree, the 4c is very much a carbon tubbed elise in its design, I agree with your 'everybody who loved' statements.Everybody who loves the comfort of a Cayman won´t like the 4C
Everybody who loves the dynamic of a Cayman and doesn´t care about comfort will love the 4C more than his Porsche.
And I am not talking about the look / style, I am only talking about the driving experience.
However I will mention one thing, and that is on your location, Germany, or more precisely your lovely smooth roads! The mass of criticism of the feel (not weighting but it wasn't such an issue in early reports), came when reviews were happening in the UK, not when it was launched which makes me think that perhaps the difference is only apparent on rougher road surfaces over here in blighty - hence why you haven't noticed such criticisms when driving your car. Its just a theory that would explain why the reviews have been so harsh on the steering compared to such positive reviews at launch.
Just to clarify - I am not anti 4c. I never have been. I championed Alfas decision to make it a light weight car, and was very quick to point out that in fact a 4 cylinder was more 'Alfa' than a v6 to its early critics. I was rather excited by every bit of news that came with it.
Fantuzzi in another thread when asked what he thought of the 4c... said:
4C....Love it, at first when it came out I was pissed off, I though it was just another MiTo squashed 8C lookalike, but now I've changed my mind. The exhaust is straight through I think from what I've read, and from all the reviews it is meant to be stunning, should win on the driving front against the cayman, no doubt loose on the refinement, but hopefully claw back some points on mpgs/tax etc.
When I watched Chris Harris' review I wanted one, badly, in black. In fact every review was rather awesome, until in came to the UK, in which case I was a bit annoyed that the steering hadn't been properly perfected according to the journos. As like I said, I was a rather big fan of the 4c. But I live in the UK, and steering feel is rather a big deal to me. It is the thing you notice no matter what speed, nor manner you drive a car, it makes a car feel so much more engaging. I couldn't imagine owning a car that didn't have great steering. So as I like the 4c, a lot, I was annoyed it wasn't perfected for UK roads. I simply get annoyed at the 'it doesn't matter what its like, its an Alfa' response. I think its damaging. Alfas reputation wasn't built on pretty or stylish cars, but on great drivers car. Ones that one races and made everything else feel numb. They made supersaloons better than anyone, and sportscars to match. I understand that some people like cars for different reasons, but in the sports car market it is how they drive that matters (and it is this market that attracts my attention, I have no real interest in cars as transport). And the thread was about the criticisms of the 4c in this area, the OP didn't want to hear 'ignore the mags, they all talk b
ks anyway', they wanted to hear,cheddar said:
Are there any glowing recent road test reviews out there?
Of which there have been many, but not so many when the car got to the UK. Errek mentioned the UK tests were harder on the 4c, once again I suspect the road surface was an issue if this is the case given how drastic the difference in opinion has been from its launch to tests on uk roads.Fantuzzi:
I haven´t said the 4C is a carbon tubed Elise.
It isn´t.
Our road here in germany are not as good as you think.
The road where you able to go for a blast, without beeing afraid of loosing your lisence are the same as your UK c-roads.
Be sure, I know what I am talking about.
You don´t know what you are talking about. You have never driven an 4C, perhaps you haven´t driven any elise, ariel, Porsche, single seater race car and all that stuff also.
But what is remarkable, you are reading journals and forum-threads and think you know everything from firsthand.
Dream on and believe what ever you want.
I am out.
I haven´t said the 4C is a carbon tubed Elise.
It isn´t.
Our road here in germany are not as good as you think.
The road where you able to go for a blast, without beeing afraid of loosing your lisence are the same as your UK c-roads.
Be sure, I know what I am talking about.
You don´t know what you are talking about. You have never driven an 4C, perhaps you haven´t driven any elise, ariel, Porsche, single seater race car and all that stuff also.
But what is remarkable, you are reading journals and forum-threads and think you know everything from firsthand.
Dream on and believe what ever you want.
I am out.
Tuscan-blue said:
Fantuzzi:
I haven´t said the 4C is a carbon tubed Elise.
It isn´t.
Our road here in germany are not as good as you think.
The road where you able to go for a blast, without beeing afraid of loosing your lisence are the same as your UK c-roads.
Be sure, I know what I am talking about.
You don´t know what you are talking about. You have never driven an 4C, perhaps you haven´t driven any elise, ariel, Porsche, single seater race car and all that stuff also.
But what is remarkable, you are reading journals and forum-threads and think you know everything from firsthand.
Dream on and believe what ever you want.
I am out.
Jesus, way to prove me wrong...I haven´t said the 4C is a carbon tubed Elise.
It isn´t.
Our road here in germany are not as good as you think.
The road where you able to go for a blast, without beeing afraid of loosing your lisence are the same as your UK c-roads.
Be sure, I know what I am talking about.
You don´t know what you are talking about. You have never driven an 4C, perhaps you haven´t driven any elise, ariel, Porsche, single seater race car and all that stuff also.
But what is remarkable, you are reading journals and forum-threads and think you know everything from firsthand.
Dream on and believe what ever you want.
I am out.
If you've driven a Porsche AND a single seater racer you must know everything there is to know!
You should work for a magazine with that experience. Actually don't bother no one listens to them anyway.
Stay safe now Tuscan driving all those fast cars.
Edited by Fantuzzi on Friday 21st February 13:02
Tuscan-blue said:
Enjoy it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_HBDS6KwoI&fe...
A few pages before I talked about my experience with my LE.
All I see in the video is like my own experience.
BTW the LE is on the original 18/19 inch wheels. Which means no Semi-Slick / trackday Tyre available.
You have made me very very jealous!!! Lovely track that, as well, where is it?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_HBDS6KwoI&fe...
A few pages before I talked about my experience with my LE.
All I see in the video is like my own experience.
BTW the LE is on the original 18/19 inch wheels. Which means no Semi-Slick / trackday Tyre available.
RichB said:
t last we agree on something 
It's a funny thing, this. Those with significantly less experience than the journalists will rubbish the journalists but then big up their own experience to validate their own opinions. 
Sooo, you have to be experienced to know what you're talking about but if you're too experienced then your opinions can be safely disregarded. Have I got that right?
heebeegeetee said:
RichB said:
At last we agree on something
It's a funny thing, this. Those with significantly less experience than the journalists will rubbish the journalists but then big up their own experience to validate their own opinions. Sooo, you have to be experienced to know what you're talking about but if you're too experienced then your opinions can be safely disregarded. Have I got that right?
Indeed, I really couldn't care less. All I originally said was that I prefer to make my own mind up rather than take the word of journalists. For example if we believed EVO we'd all drives Porsche 911s 
RichB said:
ave you got it right, I've no idea Indeed, I really couldn't care less. All I originally said was that I prefer to make my own mind up rather than take the word of journalists. For example if we believed EVO we'd all drives Porsche 911s
Make your own mind up about what though? You can make your own mind up about the 911 but what difference does that make? A 911 is still a 911 (in all it's different formats). Indeed, I really couldn't care less. All I originally said was that I prefer to make my own mind up rather than take the word of journalists. For example if we believed EVO we'd all drives Porsche 911s 
I mean, what are you going to make your mind up about? That it's German, or that it's rear engined, or that a flat 6 sounds different to a V8, or that itn handles like a rear-engined car... or what?
heebeegeetee said:
RichB said:
t last we agree on something
It's a funny thing, this. Those with significantly less experience than the journalists will rubbish the journalists but then big up their own experience to validate their own opinions. Sooo, you have to be experienced to know what you're talking about but if you're too experienced then your opinions can be safely disregarded. Have I got that right?
Thanks for your comments a page or two back, nice to know I am not alone in my thoughts!
Tuscan-blue said:
@fantuzzi
There is a word for people like you in german:
It is "Klugscheißer"
Only to get it on the right way:
You are talking about things you have no experience at all with it.
Never the less you think you know exactly what you are talking about.
This is a "Klugscheißer".
Oh you're back again! I thought you'd be out driving your 4c, or 996, or atom. After all 'less reading more driving' that's your motto. There is a word for people like you in german:
It is "Klugscheißer"
Only to get it on the right way:
You are talking about things you have no experience at all with it.
Never the less you think you know exactly what you are talking about.
This is a "Klugscheißer".
Don't worry you've made your points very clear across these, goodness, 11 pages! Haven't we been chatting for a long time! How time fly's when your having fun. And now some of it in German now as well, how very multilingual the thread has become - insults in English and German, aren't we lucky to be learning new words as well. Its like Sesame street.
You have told me what an awful lot on the 4c through these pages Tuscan, so thank you, I do love an owners perspective after all.
Tuscan-blue said:
I am sure that the zero torsion is the point why the steering feels different.
As all ready mentioned I have an Elise MK1 with short rack.
It is true that both cars feel very different concerning the steering.
But I can´t say I prefer the Elise.
The 4C feels more like a race car than the Elise.
A race car with A/C, stereo, really good heater, Leather seats etc........
Everybody who loves a Elise / Exise will love the 4C
Everybody who loves the comfort of a Cayman won´t like the 4C
Everybody who loves the dynamic of a Cayman and doesn´t care about comfort will love the 4C more than his Porsche.
And I am not talking about the look / style, I am only talking about the driving experience.
Been watching this thread with interest (except for Fantuzzi's rantings) and its interesting to hear from someone with first hand owner experience. I've had a few cars myself including a VXR220 with a bit of extra mods so have been very interested in all the reviews, good or bad.As all ready mentioned I have an Elise MK1 with short rack.
It is true that both cars feel very different concerning the steering.
But I can´t say I prefer the Elise.
The 4C feels more like a race car than the Elise.
A race car with A/C, stereo, really good heater, Leather seats etc........
Everybody who loves a Elise / Exise will love the 4C
Everybody who loves the comfort of a Cayman won´t like the 4C
Everybody who loves the dynamic of a Cayman and doesn´t care about comfort will love the 4C more than his Porsche.
And I am not talking about the look / style, I am only talking about the driving experience.
To that end, I have put a deposit down on a 4C Spider / GTS / Targa or whatever it's going to called. Hoping to see it at Geneva in a couple of weeks so hope they have changed the lights and maybe the interior. Should hopefully be the same weight due to the carbon tub so there should be no need for structural strengthening.
Anyway, thanks for your thoughts which are most useful to hear and please don't stop giving us your views either, the thread will be poorer if you don't.
As an aside, I read somewhere that Chris Harris has driven a 4C with an adjustment to the rear suspension geometry and thought it much improved. Maybe as it was a 'hack' car it had had something knocked out of kilter? Who knows.
Another slice of reality
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=afCctBD7XjI
Anybody also seeing a punter in his Nissan almost losing it trying to keep with a 4C on its first careful outing, is probably delusional, like me
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=afCctBD7XjI
Anybody also seeing a punter in his Nissan almost losing it trying to keep with a 4C on its first careful outing, is probably delusional, like me
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