Alfa 4C - the reality?????
Discussion
wow, what a of opinions - do most threads get this 'excited' or is it something about the Alfa?
I do agree that journo's have a fairly unique perspective given the number of cars they get to drive - but i don't think that makes them particularly helpful if you're looking to buy.
Driving something for a few hours, particularly back to back with other cars is completely different to living with a car for months or years - many cars take a lot of driving before the personality starts to come through
In my opinion if you don't rely on winning races to make a living then having the objective 'best' car is not necessarily going to make you happy - happiness is after all subjective.
I do agree that journo's have a fairly unique perspective given the number of cars they get to drive - but i don't think that makes them particularly helpful if you're looking to buy.
Driving something for a few hours, particularly back to back with other cars is completely different to living with a car for months or years - many cars take a lot of driving before the personality starts to come through
In my opinion if you don't rely on winning races to make a living then having the objective 'best' car is not necessarily going to make you happy - happiness is after all subjective.
It's not just the car I think. Some of us are trying to share experience and what we find on forums, youtube, etc, others make it into... something that needs a degree in psychology to figure out. Basically they 'are right' and anyone doubting that is obviously hallucinating, apparently.
Part of that may be the huge difference in opinion that is out there. Apparently either reviewers love it or they hate it. In particular some UK printed press, since after the Balocco press days, hate it. And then some. Although Car, Automobile and others seem to be balanced, the naysayers here for some reason only keep going on about the most negative reports. Even if an owner shares insight, he is told off by people I am starting to suspect have not driven a car, let alone a fast one, in their lives.
The internets eh?
Part of that may be the huge difference in opinion that is out there. Apparently either reviewers love it or they hate it. In particular some UK printed press, since after the Balocco press days, hate it. And then some. Although Car, Automobile and others seem to be balanced, the naysayers here for some reason only keep going on about the most negative reports. Even if an owner shares insight, he is told off by people I am starting to suspect have not driven a car, let alone a fast one, in their lives.
The internets eh?
My viewpoint, I love alfa and think the 4c is brilliant. but...
If one side of the argument is coming across badly on this thread it is those that won't hear a bad word about the 4c. I don't see what relevance posting up a video of a punter (who may have all the driving talent of my nan) driving a heavy road-biased nissan on track and struggling to keep up with an 4c has. Particularly when the negative point is about steering feel. How on earth does that vid respond to the criticism of the alfa from the drivers seat of a car behind?
I totally agree with the poster who said that apparently we are to ignore those who are best placed to give an honest opinion on a car (experienced journo's who have driven all the competition) but we should be listening to the owners who bought the car without ever having driven it. As if they are better placed to give an unbiased opinion.
I have a scientific background, taking the above approach would be like disregarding the peer reviewed papers published by respected scientific journals and instead basing your opinion on the comments section of a daily mail article.
I am sure that a 4c would be an amazing car to drive, fast, fun and engaging. I for one would love to own one. I am also pretty certain that the steering is likely to not be as good as that of some of its rivals. The balance of evidence says so.
If one side of the argument is coming across badly on this thread it is those that won't hear a bad word about the 4c. I don't see what relevance posting up a video of a punter (who may have all the driving talent of my nan) driving a heavy road-biased nissan on track and struggling to keep up with an 4c has. Particularly when the negative point is about steering feel. How on earth does that vid respond to the criticism of the alfa from the drivers seat of a car behind?
I totally agree with the poster who said that apparently we are to ignore those who are best placed to give an honest opinion on a car (experienced journo's who have driven all the competition) but we should be listening to the owners who bought the car without ever having driven it. As if they are better placed to give an unbiased opinion.
I have a scientific background, taking the above approach would be like disregarding the peer reviewed papers published by respected scientific journals and instead basing your opinion on the comments section of a daily mail article.
I am sure that a 4c would be an amazing car to drive, fast, fun and engaging. I for one would love to own one. I am also pretty certain that the steering is likely to not be as good as that of some of its rivals. The balance of evidence says so.
jimmy156 said:
My viewpoint, I love alfa and think the 4c is brilliant. but...
If one side of the argument is coming across badly on this thread it is those that won't hear a bad word about the 4c. I don't see what relevance posting up a video of a punter (who may have all the driving talent of my nan) driving a heavy road-biased nissan on track and struggling to keep up with an 4c has. Particularly when the negative point is about steering feel. How on earth does that vid respond to the criticism of the alfa from the drivers seat of a car behind?
I totally agree with the poster who said that apparently we are to ignore those who are best placed to give an honest opinion on a car (experienced journo's who have driven all the competition) but we should be listening to the owners who bought the car without ever having driven it. As if they are better placed to give an unbiased opinion.
I have a scientific background, taking the above approach would be like disregarding the peer reviewed papers published by respected scientific journals and instead basing your opinion on the comments section of a daily mail article.
I am sure that a 4c would be an amazing car to drive, fast, fun and engaging. I for one would love to own one. I am also pretty certain that the steering is likely to not be as good as that of some of its rivals. The balance of evidence says so.
A lot of assumptions there, tsk tsk, not very open minded nor very scientific :If one side of the argument is coming across badly on this thread it is those that won't hear a bad word about the 4c. I don't see what relevance posting up a video of a punter (who may have all the driving talent of my nan) driving a heavy road-biased nissan on track and struggling to keep up with an 4c has. Particularly when the negative point is about steering feel. How on earth does that vid respond to the criticism of the alfa from the drivers seat of a car behind?
I totally agree with the poster who said that apparently we are to ignore those who are best placed to give an honest opinion on a car (experienced journo's who have driven all the competition) but we should be listening to the owners who bought the car without ever having driven it. As if they are better placed to give an unbiased opinion.
I have a scientific background, taking the above approach would be like disregarding the peer reviewed papers published by respected scientific journals and instead basing your opinion on the comments section of a daily mail article.
I am sure that a 4c would be an amazing car to drive, fast, fun and engaging. I for one would love to own one. I am also pretty certain that the steering is likely to not be as good as that of some of its rivals. The balance of evidence says so.
-You assume the 350Z in the flick is road-biased (looking at it when they pit it seems like some money spent on it aftermarket to me, and it does not look like it is his first outing, but perhaps you know the owner and have all the details?).
-Then you assume that I want to respond to criticism of any kind. Why would I? I have no money in FGA. I have nothing to gain with anybody believing anything. Look and draw your own conclusions. Too much to ask maybe for a boffin like you?
-Who in this thread ever said to ignore anything?
-The balance of evidence says what? OK. Calling your bluf. What evidence? The OPINION of a journalist is evidence? That is scientific? Oh my...
You have a scientific background and would not depend on the comments section of the daily mail article. However you seem very keen to defend the article itself without experimental knowledge. I fear for your scientific endeavours. Your mind does not seem very set to it.
If you want to read why I posted that video : the thread title, have you read it? Could it be that the video shows you how the car behaves in reality? Could it possibly be that most of my posts here carry some kind of information with which I wanted to contribute instead of b
hing about like some others? Could it be that there is not that much new in your post?Lots of negativity around here. That little green eyed monster perhaps...
AML said:
Wow this thread still going!
Any others actually driven/ own one of these- would be interested to hear their comments, regardless of any possible owner bias.
Also- anyone got any info on the forthcoming spider version?
I doubt they'd be tempted or could be bothered after all this, to be honest.Any others actually driven/ own one of these- would be interested to hear their comments, regardless of any possible owner bias.
Also- anyone got any info on the forthcoming spider version?
Rumours on the spider : it will be shown in Geneva soon, will be a Targa, which could mean it will have an opening front to stow away the roof part, which could in turn mean there will be some redesign down there that could make some more room for the headlights falling in behand glass/plastic rather than bulging out, so possibly different headlights for the targa. And there could be the new option of having the brake callipers painted orange, possibly new exterior colours as well.
Although this has not been confirmed by a messenger from God or EVO. So to some this will be worthless information, I guess.
errek72 said:
A lot of assumptions there, tsk tsk, not very open minded nor very scientific :
-You assume the 350Z in the flick is road-biased (looking at it when they pit it seems like some money spent on it aftermarket to me, and it does not look like it is his first outing, but perhaps you know the owner and have all the details?).
-Then you assume that I want to respond to criticism of any kind. Why would I? I have no money in FGA. I have nothing to gain with anybody believing anything. Look and draw your own conclusions. Too much to ask maybe for a boffin like you?
-Who in this thread ever said to ignore anything?
-The balance of evidence says what? OK. Calling your bluf. What evidence? The OPINION of a journalist is evidence? That is scientific? Oh my...
You have a scientific background and would not depend on the comments section of the daily mail article. However you seem very keen to defend the article itself without experimental knowledge. I fear for your scientific endeavours. Your mind does not seem very set to it.
If you want to read why I posted that video : the thread title, have you read it? Could it be that the video shows you how the car behaves in reality? Could it possibly be that most of my posts here carry some kind of information with which I wanted to contribute instead of bhing about like some others? Could it be that there is not that much new in your post?
Lots of negativity around here. That little green eyed monster perhaps...
-You assume the 350Z in the flick is road-biased (looking at it when they pit it seems like some money spent on it aftermarket to me, and it does not look like it is his first outing, but perhaps you know the owner and have all the details?).
-Then you assume that I want to respond to criticism of any kind. Why would I? I have no money in FGA. I have nothing to gain with anybody believing anything. Look and draw your own conclusions. Too much to ask maybe for a boffin like you?
-Who in this thread ever said to ignore anything?
-The balance of evidence says what? OK. Calling your bluf. What evidence? The OPINION of a journalist is evidence? That is scientific? Oh my...
You have a scientific background and would not depend on the comments section of the daily mail article. However you seem very keen to defend the article itself without experimental knowledge. I fear for your scientific endeavours. Your mind does not seem very set to it.
If you want to read why I posted that video : the thread title, have you read it? Could it be that the video shows you how the car behaves in reality? Could it possibly be that most of my posts here carry some kind of information with which I wanted to contribute instead of b
hing about like some others? Could it be that there is not that much new in your post?Lots of negativity around here. That little green eyed monster perhaps...
I don't think that video tells us anything at all about how the 4c behaves? I know no more or less then you about the 350z or the driver then you. The most likely thing is that it is a road car driven by an better then average driver. I still don't see how this tells us anything about the 4c
I am not b
hing, nor am i jealous, nor am i negative! My point really is that with all the information that is available, it looks likely that the 4c's steering isn't as good as it could be/as good as its rivals.Based on the comments of a professional and experienced racing driver, all owners that I read posts of including one here, and the vast majority of international journalists I read so far, there is nothing wrong with the steering or anything else for this type of car and price.
But if it makes anyone feel better to think otherwise, by all means. Just don't sell it off as more rational, 'scientific' or 'sane' than any other opinion - because it is not.
But if it makes anyone feel better to think otherwise, by all means. Just don't sell it off as more rational, 'scientific' or 'sane' than any other opinion - because it is not.
errek72 said:
I doubt they'd be tempted or could be bothered after all this, to be honest.
Rumours on the spider : it will be shown in Geneva soon, will be a Targa, which could mean it will have an opening front to stow away the roof part, which could in turn mean there will be some redesign down there that could make some more room for the headlights falling in behand glass/plastic rather than bulging out, so possibly different headlights for the targa. And there could be the new option of having the brake callipers painted orange, possibly new exterior colours as well.
Although this has not been confirmed by a messenger from God or EVO. So to some this will be worthless information, I guess.
I was told by my dealer principle that the targa / GTS / whatever, is going to appear at Geneva - hope so, I got tickets!Rumours on the spider : it will be shown in Geneva soon, will be a Targa, which could mean it will have an opening front to stow away the roof part, which could in turn mean there will be some redesign down there that could make some more room for the headlights falling in behand glass/plastic rather than bulging out, so possibly different headlights for the targa. And there could be the new option of having the brake callipers painted orange, possibly new exterior colours as well.
Although this has not been confirmed by a messenger from God or EVO. So to some this will be worthless information, I guess.
errek72 said:
Based on the comments of a professional and experienced racing driver, all owners that I read posts of including one here, and the vast majority of international journalists I read so far, there is nothing wrong with the steering or anything else for this type of car and price.
But if it makes anyone feel better to think otherwise, by all means. Just don't sell it off as more rational, 'scientific' or 'sane' than any other opinion - because it is not.
But if it makes anyone feel better to think otherwise, by all means. Just don't sell it off as more rational, 'scientific' or 'sane' than any other opinion - because it is not.
it doesn't make me feel better. Im not having a dig, or being negative. I'm just going on the evidence i have seen and read. Unfortunately i don't speak any other language so i can't read any european reviews, i'm sure it may give me a more balanced view if i could.thegreenhell said:
Good review. Don't know if already mentioned on this thread but Chris Harris reported on twitter that the geo on his UK reviewed version was out and that it was a different car after the geo was checked.
ewolg said:
I was told by my dealer principle that the targa / GTS / whatever, is going to appear at Geneva - hope so, I got tickets!
mmmm interesting 
......although I have to say I cancelled my 4c order in Dec due to the abysmal communication from Alfa .......I just hope these new models don't muddy the water further for potential new owners.and just for clarity.....I am a huge fan of the 4C, and one-day I will own one,I just completely lost confidence/faith with the UK alfa dealer network.
snaz
Fantuzzi said:
Why though? Because it has a Alfa badge?
The elise is better to drive as a light racer, plus its 14k cheaper in supercharged S form, and the Cayman is more composed and well rounded.
I see your point on 'real world', but surely for 50k you'd want to buy the best sports car you could? Or is it just me that hates the idea of spending 50k on something that's second (if that) best?
IMO The Elise is pThe elise is better to drive as a light racer, plus its 14k cheaper in supercharged S form, and the Cayman is more composed and well rounded.
I see your point on 'real world', but surely for 50k you'd want to buy the best sports car you could? Or is it just me that hates the idea of spending 50k on something that's second (if that) best?
g expensive for what is essentially track day car because it's so uncomfortable on the roads. The Cayman, although expensive, is a nice car but appears to be the obvious/boring (depends on opinion) choice whereas the Alfa, although perhaps dynamically flawed, shows that you enjoy a cars aesthetics and enjoy driving, but doesn't want to conform the obvious/dull choices.Mr SFJ said:
IMO The Elise is pg expensive for what is essentially track day car because it's so uncomfortable on the roads. The Cayman, although expensive, is a nice car but appears to be the obvious/boring (depends on opinion) choice whereas the Alfa, although perhaps dynamically flawed, shows that you enjoy a cars aesthetics and enjoy driving, but doesn't want to conform the obvious/dull choices.
Does it not show that while you may 'enjoy a cars aesthetics and enjoy driving', you definitely put the aesthetics first?g expensive for what is essentially track day car because it's so uncomfortable on the roads. The Cayman, although expensive, is a nice car but appears to be the obvious/boring (depends on opinion) choice whereas the Alfa, although perhaps dynamically flawed, shows that you enjoy a cars aesthetics and enjoy driving, but doesn't want to conform the obvious/dull choices.It's not black and white though. Not many people strive for perfection in any one area, I think. It's about finding the right balance for you. Do you like the way it looks? Do you like the way it drives in the type of driving you'll use it for? Do you value the sense of individuality that it brings? Does this one car meet your personal set of criteria better than any other car, overall? Do you just WANT one?
Not everybody judges a car's worth based on the opinions of Chris Harris or EVO magazine. If we did then we'd all be driving Porsches. Everyone asks a different set of questions and gives different answers when making that choice. How it looks and drives are just individual elements of that.
Some strange people would even argue that the 4C isn't that good looking anyway.
Not everybody judges a car's worth based on the opinions of Chris Harris or EVO magazine. If we did then we'd all be driving Porsches. Everyone asks a different set of questions and gives different answers when making that choice. How it looks and drives are just individual elements of that.
Some strange people would even argue that the 4C isn't that good looking anyway.
thegreenhell said:
Not everybody judges a car's worth based on the opinions of Chris Harris
New Chris Harris Alfa 4C vid http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
I drove one yesterday and my expectations were pretty much spot on.
A beautiful looking car, even better in the flesh than in photos.
I have 2 x Cayman S at the moment, a road car and a track day car and neither looks as good as the Alfa.
It handled, braked and went well...in actual numbers, but whoever thought to put a 1.7 engine in a car that looks like a Ferrari wants their head examined.
Laggy, awful sounding and just soooo not-supercar-engined.
If that car had a lovely-sounding, revvy, 3.5 V6 producing a nice easy 350 bhp or so it would sell in droves. I would buy one.
If 4 cylinders was a must on weight and size it should have been a 2.3 with about 320 bhp.
As it is you get a tuned shopping car engine in a supercar body.
Insane.
A beautiful looking car, even better in the flesh than in photos.
I have 2 x Cayman S at the moment, a road car and a track day car and neither looks as good as the Alfa.
It handled, braked and went well...in actual numbers, but whoever thought to put a 1.7 engine in a car that looks like a Ferrari wants their head examined.
Laggy, awful sounding and just soooo not-supercar-engined.
If that car had a lovely-sounding, revvy, 3.5 V6 producing a nice easy 350 bhp or so it would sell in droves. I would buy one.
If 4 cylinders was a must on weight and size it should have been a 2.3 with about 320 bhp.
As it is you get a tuned shopping car engine in a supercar body.
Insane.
Nice video there, again, telling us what we all really know.
The Cayman S isn't overly powerful, but is the best real world road sports car ever made, taken as a whole package.
No tuned 1.7 inline 4 from Alfa will ever change that.
Nice try Alfa, but get a better engine in there, some smaller wheels and sort the rear suspension and you can come and have another go.
:-)
The Cayman S isn't overly powerful, but is the best real world road sports car ever made, taken as a whole package.
No tuned 1.7 inline 4 from Alfa will ever change that.
Nice try Alfa, but get a better engine in there, some smaller wheels and sort the rear suspension and you can come and have another go.
:-)
Gassing Station | Alfa Romeo, Fiat & Lancia | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff