Alfa 4C - the reality?????
Discussion
errek72 said:
Well, first of all, I am not sure if I missed a crowning here or there but in the international press, which is slightly less Porsche-focused than in UK for whatever reason, I'd say the Lotus Exige V6 is considered as the sportscar benchmark at this price point. Certainly when it comes to handling.
With regards to price, in my (Euro) market, the Cayman is 29% over the price of the 4C. If that is "very similar pricing", I wonder why the Cayman is not constantly compared to the Nissan GT-R, because that is about 29% more expensive as a Cayman in most countries. It may be a bit better at a lot of stuff the Cayman is supposedly good at, just a hunch there.
As this is a UK based forum, with predominantly UK users, for clear comparison can we stick to UK RRP and leave aside the confusion of international pricing anomalies. With regards to price, in my (Euro) market, the Cayman is 29% over the price of the 4C. If that is "very similar pricing", I wonder why the Cayman is not constantly compared to the Nissan GT-R, because that is about 29% more expensive as a Cayman in most countries. It may be a bit better at a lot of stuff the Cayman is supposedly good at, just a hunch there.
Cayman £39,694
Alfa 4C £45,000
'Absolute' top honours will always be contentious but the new Cayman has variously been described as 'The best all round sportscar of our time' 'A blend of driving attributes unmatched at this price level'.
The Exige hasn't had attracted such prose and is now only available in 'S' model which is considerably more expensive (from £53,850) than either Cayman or 4C. Yes it handles well, it's a Lotus after all and their magic chassis wand hasn't failed them for quite some time but, in this readers eyes, as an all round package the Cayman has it licked.
Matt Prior of Autocar:
"Drive a Cayman in entirely standard form – or as close to it as you can get – and the dynamic integrity of the car is clear.
Even without Porsche’s PASM suspension, the basic Cayman’s sporting blend of compliance and body control feels expertly judged.
The damper response reeks of fine-tuning. Initial give turns into the sort of reassuring support that you can lean on in total confidence, and there’s a gradual, seamless transition in between that allows for changeable road surfaces very adroitly indeed. The resulting compromise feels sophisticated.
Guiding the Cayman from corner to corner is an immersive pleasure. There’s a little roll, but only at high effort levels, where it serves to remind you gently that you’re approaching the limits, exactly as a road car should.
The car’s cornering balance is near-perfect: neutral but unerringly predictable on a balanced throttle, and biased ever so slightly towards understeer if you throttle up before you begin easing the lateral load out of the front tyres.
Caymans equipped with Porsche’s torque vectoring option are slightly more adjustable with power as the corner develops, while models with Porsche's adaptive dampers further bolster the Cayman's capabilities, delivering a level of compliancy and control that can be be benchmarked against Lotus and McLaren.
It has a sense of easy precision, instinctive poise and flattering controllability equalled only by handful of sports cars in the world – and eclipsed by precisely none.
Whether you opt for the riotous 2.7-litre version, or the more muscular S model, you won't be disappointed."
That's exactly the kind of exciting stuff I'm itching to read about the 4C.
cheddar said:
That's exactly the kind of exciting stuff I'm itching to read about the 4C.
Oh, but we can quote UK press snippets about how great the Cayman is here all week, and probably longer.My guess is you will have that itch for a long time, because if the current UK car media bias is anything to go by (curiously, only after the actual launch, during the Balocco launch it was all flowers, wonder how that works) you will never read anything remotely positive about the 4C coming out of Britain again.
Actually never mind, anyone comparing the 4C to a Cayman has clearly got no clue what the car is about.
I doubt Alfa would care since the car is sold out and their mission of giving the signal to Alfisti that they are back is clearly accomplished.
errek72 said:
Oh, but we can quote UK press snippets about how great the Cayman is here all week, and probably longer.
My guess is you will have that itch for a long time, because if the current UK car media bias is anything to go by (curiously, only after the actual launch, during the Balocco launch it was all flowers, wonder how that works) you will never read anything remotely positive about the 4C coming out of Britain again.
Actually never mind, anyone comparing the 4C to a Cayman has clearly got no clue what the car is about.
I doubt Alfa would care since the car is sold out and their mission of giving the signal to Alfisti that they are back is clearly accomplished.
erreck - your basis for defence of the 4C's ability seems to consist of your perception of bias within the UK's motoring press, I just don't ever see that, they call a spade a spade (or occasionally a trowel when they sit a on the fence awaiting a longer term assessment).My guess is you will have that itch for a long time, because if the current UK car media bias is anything to go by (curiously, only after the actual launch, during the Balocco launch it was all flowers, wonder how that works) you will never read anything remotely positive about the 4C coming out of Britain again.
Actually never mind, anyone comparing the 4C to a Cayman has clearly got no clue what the car is about.
I doubt Alfa would care since the car is sold out and their mission of giving the signal to Alfisti that they are back is clearly accomplished.
Their opinion's appear (to me) neutral, knowledgeable and, in general, well written.
As for "anyone comparing a 4C to a Cayman clearly has got no clue" why's that?
They're a pair of rwd, mid-engined, driver focused, 2 seater sports cars closely matched on performance and price, one is an established benchmark, the other, a lightweight newcomer with a set of ingredients potentially capable of making it a contemporary driving legend.
Or not.....
I can't wait to see, after the initial furor dies down, whether the 4C is as good as its recipe suggests it may be - hence this thread.
It may have sold out but as they're only producing 3,500 globally per annum I would hope so, I strongly support its ongoing success, the world needs more cars like this and continued high sales can only encourage other manufacturers to follow suit, I mean imagine how good a 1000kg, carbon tubbed Cayman would be!
errek72 said:
cheddar said:
That's exactly the kind of exciting stuff I'm itching to read about the 4C.
Oh, but we can quote UK press snippets about how great the Cayman is here all week, and probably longer.My guess is you will have that itch for a long time, because if the current UK car media bias is anything to go by (curiously, only after the actual launch, during the Balocco launch it was all flowers, wonder how that works) you will never read anything remotely positive about the 4C coming out of Britain again.
Actually never mind, anyone comparing the 4C to a Cayman has clearly got no clue what the car is about.
I doubt Alfa would care since the car is sold out and their mission of giving the signal to Alfisti that they are back is clearly accomplished.
The 991 was pretty hounded about its electric steering, the GT3 has had the 'its lost its magic in favour of all rounded ability', so Porsche in the UK isn't always the blue eyed boy - its just Porsche tend to be pretty good in their constancy.
I disagree with balocco thing, its very smooth, the 8c launch was there- go read the differences between tests at launch and after on that car!- so steering is hard to judge, although I think Harris noted the steering vagueness mid corner at Bolocco as well as others - but on real roads the steering is always going to show up faults/differences you wouldn't be able to tell on silky smooth surfaces.
If the Cayman is such a high price in your part of the world, then naturally your press wont compare it to something that is too far out of their price bracket, but in the UK the Cayman S is 50k, so the 4C is the price rival, its power to weight is pretty much the same, and its a mid engined 2 seater sports car, it was going to be compared to it I don't know why you are surprised.
For the record the UK press like the 4c, its very much a 4 stars car. But the slower transmission and the lack of feel and vagueness from the unassisted steering are faults that stop it from being THE car of the moment, people have said its racier than the Cayman, but its the little details that matter to make a car be 'great'. I think that is what we were all hoping for.
But as you have said Errek, Alfa have sold, owners are happy, so perhaps that's all that matters.
But as I understood it the 4c was meant to be a halo car, and the tiny details should have been studied to, even if you think the UK press is too harsh or whatever, that's what you should expect with such good cars on sale. Alfa wanted to make a car that was like the golden years, the cars that now command a massive price tag at auction, are coveted by people other than Alfa fans massively, cars that dominated international racing and were seen as the best drivers cars you could buy.
I can't believe everyone is coming to conclusions on the 4c before the only review that matters has been broadcast...
The 4c will be reviewed on top-gear tonight on BBC2, at last there will be an impartial, critical review that really tells us what we need to know about this exciting car.
[does this need a winky]
The 4c will be reviewed on top-gear tonight on BBC2, at last there will be an impartial, critical review that really tells us what we need to know about this exciting car.
[does this need a winky]
Interestingly i have just watched two AutoExpress reviews of the 4C.
The first was a track battle against the Caymen, where the reviewer gave the reports that we have heard about the steering, lacking in feel etc.
The second was a straight forward 5 minute video about the 4C where ther review said, and i quote
'The best bit is the steering, its completely unassisted there is no power steering whatsoever and it means it's just buzzing with feedback'
He then goes to say...
The 4c has some pretty significant talents that help it make up the gap [to the porsche caymen] most notably the way it looks, the way sounds and the way it steers
The first was a track battle against the Caymen, where the reviewer gave the reports that we have heard about the steering, lacking in feel etc.
The second was a straight forward 5 minute video about the 4C where ther review said, and i quote
'The best bit is the steering, its completely unassisted there is no power steering whatsoever and it means it's just buzzing with feedback'
He then goes to say...
The 4c has some pretty significant talents that help it make up the gap [to the porsche caymen] most notably the way it looks, the way sounds and the way it steers
Edited by jimmy156 on Sunday 2nd February 11:06
See my responses in italics. 
Fantuzzi said:
That's interesting, most of the stuff Ive read has praised the pointy front end, mainly saying how that can lead to spikey oversteer.
I can only see that spikey oversteer arising from an overly aggressive turn-in by the driver, and/or still being too hard on the brakes on turn-in (i.e. unsettled rear end). Either way, not the car's fault, although Elises have to be driven smoothly.
Was it track work that it showed or on the road as well?
Low speed chronic understeer was on the road, e.g. driving slow in/fast out like one would a front engined car means an Elise has no front end grip, so driving style has to change a bit.
Im looking to get a s1 in the next year or so, so that's the reason for my interest! Was your s1 still on the konis or was it the s2 blistiens?
Mine was still on its Konis - mileage <30k miles so dampers still fairly fresh
I can only see that spikey oversteer arising from an overly aggressive turn-in by the driver, and/or still being too hard on the brakes on turn-in (i.e. unsettled rear end). Either way, not the car's fault, although Elises have to be driven smoothly.
Was it track work that it showed or on the road as well?
Low speed chronic understeer was on the road, e.g. driving slow in/fast out like one would a front engined car means an Elise has no front end grip, so driving style has to change a bit.
Im looking to get a s1 in the next year or so, so that's the reason for my interest! Was your s1 still on the konis or was it the s2 blistiens?
Mine was still on its Konis - mileage <30k miles so dampers still fairly fresh
braddo said:
See my responses in italics.
Great thanks!Fantuzzi said:
That's interesting, most of the stuff Ive read has praised the pointy front end, mainly saying how that can lead to spikey oversteer.
I can only see that spikey oversteer arising from an overly aggressive turn-in by the driver, and/or still being too hard on the brakes on turn-in (i.e. unsettled rear end). Either way, not the car's fault, although Elises have to be driven smoothly.
Was it track work that it showed or on the road as well?
Low speed chronic understeer was on the road, e.g. driving slow in/fast out like one would a front engined car means an Elise has no front end grip, so driving style has to change a bit.
Im looking to get a s1 in the next year or so, so that's the reason for my interest! Was your s1 still on the konis or was it the s2 blistiens?
Mine was still on its Konis - mileage <30k miles so dampers still fairly fresh
I can only see that spikey oversteer arising from an overly aggressive turn-in by the driver, and/or still being too hard on the brakes on turn-in (i.e. unsettled rear end). Either way, not the car's fault, although Elises have to be driven smoothly.
Was it track work that it showed or on the road as well?
Low speed chronic understeer was on the road, e.g. driving slow in/fast out like one would a front engined car means an Elise has no front end grip, so driving style has to change a bit.
Im looking to get a s1 in the next year or so, so that's the reason for my interest! Was your s1 still on the konis or was it the s2 blistiens?
Mine was still on its Konis - mileage <30k miles so dampers still fairly fresh
jimmy156 said:
Interestingly i have just watched two AutoExpress reviews of the 4C.
The first was a track battle against the Caymen, where the reviewer gave the reports that we have heard about the steering, lacking in feel etc.
The second was a straight forward 5 minute video about the 4C where ther review said, and i quote
'The best bit is the steering, its completely unassisted there is no power steering whatsoever and it means it's just buzzing with feedback'
He then goes to say...
The 4c has some pretty significant talents that help it make up the gap [to the porsche caymen] most notably the way it looks, the way sounds and the way it steers
That's interesting, although journos can differ quite a bit even in the same mag!The first was a track battle against the Caymen, where the reviewer gave the reports that we have heard about the steering, lacking in feel etc.
The second was a straight forward 5 minute video about the 4C where ther review said, and i quote
'The best bit is the steering, its completely unassisted there is no power steering whatsoever and it means it's just buzzing with feedback'
He then goes to say...
The 4c has some pretty significant talents that help it make up the gap [to the porsche caymen] most notably the way it looks, the way sounds and the way it steers
Edited by jimmy156 on Sunday 2nd February 11:06
Heres something we haven't discussed - sports pack.
I think we've yet to see a test where someone has driven both, perhaps that is a factor in the steering, I know most of the initial press cars were on the sports pack, bigger wheels stiffer step up.
That could have something to do with it, often you read (normally by owners experimenting with mods) that wheel choice and suspension can rob steering of its delicacy.
Fantuzzi said:
That's interesting, although journos can differ quite a bit even in the same mag!
Yes, no problem, we are used to being lied to. Fantuzzi said:
Heres something we haven't discussed - sports pack.
I think we've yet to see a test where someone has driven both, perhaps that is a factor in the steering, I know most of the initial press cars were on the sports pack, bigger wheels stiffer step up.
That could have something to do with it, often you read (normally by owners experimenting with mods) that wheel choice and suspension can rob steering of its delicacy.
As far as I could find out, all press cars have the race suspension. I even asked Meaden and co over twitter to confirm. I have also wondered if this would make a difference as that actually may be a "dry" setup versus the normal one being a more compliant and supple ride with less need to hold the steering wheel grasped firmly. They did that trick with the SZ also : huge grip but tricky in the wet.I think we've yet to see a test where someone has driven both, perhaps that is a factor in the steering, I know most of the initial press cars were on the sports pack, bigger wheels stiffer step up.
That could have something to do with it, often you read (normally by owners experimenting with mods) that wheel choice and suspension can rob steering of its delicacy.
My 147, GTV6 and 75 had either optional or after market (but official Alfa) sports suspension and bigger wheels and all had the same situation where you always needed to hold the wheel with both hands. So I think it quite normal; I think it is good practice to have both hands on the wheel, plus it reminds me of my old Alfa's which I adored. Therefore I consciously specced a race suspension. I love the idea of a hyper modern sportscar with an old school feel to it. Same goes for the -let's remember : optional- sports exhaust.
Of course both of which is a huuuge problem for everyone (except outside the UK, but this is a "UK centric" forum I hear). Alfa should make a new real Alfa but if they do, it is of course really, really bad ("unfit for purpose" as EVO says) because, well, it is not a Porsche, does not drive like a Porsche etc.
So do yourselves a favour : if you even remotely think of changing anything about a 4C, buy a nice Cayman. It will solve all issues and leave the limited amount of cars available to the people who actually like them. Also I suspect having less right hand steering cars to produce the factory may become a bit quicker with the normal production.
I don't see whether it matters one jot whether the 4C is better than the Cayman, don't even see how they compare and I think that most of the people who've put a deposit down would agree. If you want a 4C why would you consider a Cayman? How many people who bought an 8C honestly thought it was better than the rivals? You buy an Alfa because it's an Alfa, if you are the type of person who has to justify their purchases on paper then buy a Cayman.
One thing i havent noticed anyone mention here is how tuneable the Alfa will be. The engine may not be the most desirable but with a remap and more free flowing exhaust for about a grand you could probably see results of around 300 BHP. That could propel its 0-60 figures into Supercar territory (although may not help with any under steer issues).
errek72 said:
Fantuzzi said:
That's interesting, although journos can differ quite a bit even in the same mag!
Yes, no problem, we are used to being lied to. Fantuzzi said:
Heres something we haven't discussed - sports pack.
I think we've yet to see a test where someone has driven both, perhaps that is a factor in the steering, I know most of the initial press cars were on the sports pack, bigger wheels stiffer step up.
That could have something to do with it, often you read (normally by owners experimenting with mods) that wheel choice and suspension can rob steering of its delicacy.
As far as I could find out, all press cars have the race suspension. I even asked Meaden and co over twitter to confirm. I have also wondered if this would make a difference as that actually may be a "dry" setup versus the normal one being a more compliant and supple ride with less need to hold the steering wheel grasped firmly. They did that trick with the SZ also : huge grip but tricky in the wet.I think we've yet to see a test where someone has driven both, perhaps that is a factor in the steering, I know most of the initial press cars were on the sports pack, bigger wheels stiffer step up.
That could have something to do with it, often you read (normally by owners experimenting with mods) that wheel choice and suspension can rob steering of its delicacy.
My 147, GTV6 and 75 had either optional or after market (but official Alfa) sports suspension and bigger wheels and all had the same situation where you always needed to hold the wheel with both hands. So I think it quite normal; I think it is good practice to have both hands on the wheel, plus it reminds me of my old Alfa's which I adored. Therefore I consciously specced a race suspension. I love the idea of a hyper modern sportscar with an old school feel to it. Same goes for the -let's remember : optional- sports exhaust.
Of course both of which is a huuuge problem for everyone (except outside the UK, but this is a "UK centric" forum I hear). Alfa should make a new real Alfa but if they do, it is of course really, really bad ("unfit for purpose" as EVO says) because, well, it is not a Porsche, does not drive like a Porsche etc.
So do yourselves a favour : if you even remotely think of changing anything about a 4C, buy a nice Cayman. It will solve all issues and leave the limited amount of cars available to the people who actually like them. Also I suspect having less right hand steering cars to produce the factory may become a bit quicker with the normal production.
And anyone who dares state otherwise is just a boring german car fan, bloody germans with their boringly good cars, with their boring 911 gt3 rs',M3 supersaloons and well rounded hot hatchbacks, so boring and grey with their light weight specials and attention to detail! Give me a 156 GTA any day!
f
k being a person who cares about driving and having fun in a car, care about the badge, that's all that matters really.Who are these people reviewing cars as a job, what do they know? I mean sure they spend every day reviewing the latest cars so can give an opinion on the car in relation to its rivals, but have they owned one? NO! Owners you can trust, because people never try and convince themselves they have bought something that isn't any good and convince themselves and others otherwise, Ive checked. Owners know what's good, except german car owners, they aren't right, they are boring, they only like boring cars, and all german cars are. Not Italian cars, have you driven the new Fiat vans? Such passion and soul, the 1.3 diesels rev like an old 250 swb and the cars handle like Scuderias. All of them.
Have you driven an m3, so dull! The v8 reving to 8000rpm, so boringly well composed and the oversteer, tedious! Tedious compared to my 156! Such soul!
That's the standard Alfa owner response isn't it?
Reading through the Alfa Owners forum is pretty horrific, such nonsense on german cars all being dull the cayman is awful and looks bad (therefore the is worse car to drive naturally), , how can it be compared to the 4c the 4c, how autoexpress should be sued, how owners only know what's good or not, all journos are paid, (except Italian ones then they just tell people to f
k off - like Ferrari who fiddle fking everything and ban people from testing owners cars that haven't had the special test car tune up- they arent worried about peoples opinions...), how the 'Alfa philosophy' is something you get or not (Richard Hammond is cited as 'getting it' - I think that speaks volumes).Some of the comments are rather odd, style and individuality are more important than anything else, any journo is wrong unless saying nice things.
Why would you trust a 4c owner, they bought a car without any real chance to test the car, which means they knew they would be happy no matter what. Not exactly a great testament of their non bias...
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This is the autocar test, 4c elise s, cayman.
Edited by Fantuzzi on Tuesday 4th February 16:08
Fantuzzi said:
Yep all journalist are being paid by Porsche, the 4c is bought by Alfa people - and that's all that matters -
That's the standard Alfa owner response isn't it?
No, not at all. Not sure if there is such a thing as a standard owner, but the standard response of this owner will henceforth be 'well go and buy that Porsche then'. Everyone happy, right? Porsche sales increase, Journo's get greased, the vast majority of car buying public is happy and with some luck the 4C waiting line will cut back a few weeks or so for us nutters. Ciao.That's the standard Alfa owner response isn't it?
errek72 said:
Fantuzzi said:
Yep all journalist are being paid by Porsche, the 4c is bought by Alfa people - and that's all that matters -
That's the standard Alfa owner response isn't it?
No, not at all. Not sure if there is such a thing as a standard owner, but the standard response of this owner will henceforth be 'well go and buy that Porsche then'. Everyone happy, right? Porsche sales increase, Journo's get greased, the vast majority of car buying public is happy and with some luck the 4C waiting line will cut back a few weeks or so for us nutters. Ciao.That's the standard Alfa owner response isn't it?
Let us know what you think of the 4c when you've had a drive.
Fantuzzi said:
Yep all journalist are being paid by Porsche, the 4c is bought by Alfa people - and that's all that matters - that a load of rose tinted Italophiles like a car they would covet even if it had square wheels, because 'its an Alfa' and that's the only reason you need! Why would you buy the best car you could when you could buy an ALFA ROMEO! Look its got an Alfa badge its better than anything else !Ever!
And anyone who dares state otherwise is just a boring german car fan, bloody germans with their boringly good cars, with their boring 911 gt3 rs',M3 supersaloons and well rounded hot hatchbacks, so boring and grey with their light weight specials and attention to detail! Give me a 156 GTA any day!
fk being a person who cares about driving and having fun in a car, care about the badge, that's all that matters really.
Who are these people reviewing cars as a job, what do they know? I mean sure they spend every day reviewing the latest cars so can give an opinion on the car in relation to its rivals, but have they owned one? NO! Owners you can trust, because people never try and convince themselves they have bought something that isn't any good and convince themselves and others otherwise, Ive checked. Owners know what's good, except german car owners, they aren't right, they are boring, they only like boring cars, and all german cars are. Not Italian cars, have you driven the new Fiat vans? Such passion and soul, the 1.3 diesels rev like an old 250 swb and the cars handle like Scuderias. All of them.
Have you driven an m3, so dull! The v8 reving to 8000rpm, so boringly well composed and the oversteer, tedious! Tedious compared to my 156! Such soul!
That's the standard Alfa owner response isn't it?
Reading through the Alfa Owners forum is pretty horrific, such nonsense on german cars all being dull the cayman is awful and looks bad (therefore the is worse car to drive naturally), , how can it be compared to the 4c the 4c, how autoexpress should be sued, how owners only know what's good or not, all journos are paid, (except Italian ones then they just tell people to fk off - like Ferrari who fiddle fking everything and ban people from testing owners cars that haven't had the special test car tune up- they arent worried about peoples opinions...), how the 'Alfa philosophy' is something you get or not (Richard Hammond is cited as 'getting it' - I think that speaks volumes).
Some of the comments are rather odd, style and individuality are more important than anything else, any journo is wrong unless saying nice things.
Why would you trust a 4c owner, they bought a car without any real chance to test the car, which means they knew they would be happy no matter what. Not exactly a great testament of their non bias...
note]
I admire your patience to write all that but the characteristic of the people you describe can be summed up in just one word:And anyone who dares state otherwise is just a boring german car fan, bloody germans with their boringly good cars, with their boring 911 gt3 rs',M3 supersaloons and well rounded hot hatchbacks, so boring and grey with their light weight specials and attention to detail! Give me a 156 GTA any day!
f
k being a person who cares about driving and having fun in a car, care about the badge, that's all that matters really.Who are these people reviewing cars as a job, what do they know? I mean sure they spend every day reviewing the latest cars so can give an opinion on the car in relation to its rivals, but have they owned one? NO! Owners you can trust, because people never try and convince themselves they have bought something that isn't any good and convince themselves and others otherwise, Ive checked. Owners know what's good, except german car owners, they aren't right, they are boring, they only like boring cars, and all german cars are. Not Italian cars, have you driven the new Fiat vans? Such passion and soul, the 1.3 diesels rev like an old 250 swb and the cars handle like Scuderias. All of them.
Have you driven an m3, so dull! The v8 reving to 8000rpm, so boringly well composed and the oversteer, tedious! Tedious compared to my 156! Such soul!
That's the standard Alfa owner response isn't it?
Reading through the Alfa Owners forum is pretty horrific, such nonsense on german cars all being dull the cayman is awful and looks bad (therefore the is worse car to drive naturally), , how can it be compared to the 4c the 4c, how autoexpress should be sued, how owners only know what's good or not, all journos are paid, (except Italian ones then they just tell people to f
k off - like Ferrari who fiddle fking everything and ban people from testing owners cars that haven't had the special test car tune up- they arent worried about peoples opinions...), how the 'Alfa philosophy' is something you get or not (Richard Hammond is cited as 'getting it' - I think that speaks volumes).Some of the comments are rather odd, style and individuality are more important than anything else, any journo is wrong unless saying nice things.
Why would you trust a 4c owner, they bought a car without any real chance to test the car, which means they knew they would be happy no matter what. Not exactly a great testament of their non bias...
note]
'Ultracrepidate' - yes it's a real word
.I can understand people's bias towards certain marques but it's not my way, I buy what I like and some of my flawed purchases have been remarkably enjoyable, including my remarkably flawed Alfa GTV.
Modern Alfa's remind me of one the better Top Gear segments where the team were asked to choose between three brands:
"The Alfa Romeo is the worst car here, so which one would you buy?"
"The Alfa Romeo"
"So would I"
"Bad cars can be brilliant"
By every objective yardstick a Golf R32 knocks a 147 GTA into a cocked hat, it's better built, has better handling, it's more comfortable, more refined, immeasurably more reliable blah blah blah - but, for all its turbine smooth punch and grade A accomplishments it's more like your accountant than your quirky lovable partner.
The question I want answered is just how 'quirky' the 4C really is? I can accept a recalcitrant gearshift, challenging handling or the odd cold morning strop but a combination of iffy steering, plough on understeer, too much lag and a lazy transmission would be a 'quirk' too far for me, especially in a car with such focused, exotic build as the 4C.
I can't wait to hear the good and the bad from an honest owner on here.
Modern Alfa's remind me of one the better Top Gear segments where the team were asked to choose between three brands:
"The Alfa Romeo is the worst car here, so which one would you buy?"
"The Alfa Romeo"
"So would I"
"Bad cars can be brilliant"
By every objective yardstick a Golf R32 knocks a 147 GTA into a cocked hat, it's better built, has better handling, it's more comfortable, more refined, immeasurably more reliable blah blah blah - but, for all its turbine smooth punch and grade A accomplishments it's more like your accountant than your quirky lovable partner.
The question I want answered is just how 'quirky' the 4C really is? I can accept a recalcitrant gearshift, challenging handling or the odd cold morning strop but a combination of iffy steering, plough on understeer, too much lag and a lazy transmission would be a 'quirk' too far for me, especially in a car with such focused, exotic build as the 4C.
I can't wait to hear the good and the bad from an honest owner on here.
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