Alfa SZ Zagato

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sng45

Original Poster:

497 posts

175 months

Sunday 10th August 2014
quotequote all
I've always fancied one of these but have no experience of them whatsoever - does anyone on here own one ? any ideas of how they drive - how useable they are? are they reliable? any "standard" faults etc etc - are all parts still available ? are there any specialists in the UK?

I thought this looked good

http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/a...

I've been mainly into German cars but have acquired a few Italian cars recently - Fiat 595 Abarth - Ferrari 328 GTS and Lancia Delta Integrale EVO 2 - so one of these would complement the others well ( I think !)

Any comments welcome !

Thanks

iva cosworth

44,044 posts

162 months

Sunday 10th August 2014
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Can't remember the username but someone here has an RZ the soft top version of these.

He did mention windscreens and headlamps both VERY rare to find replacements.

robemcdonald

8,690 posts

195 months

Sunday 10th August 2014
quotequote all
That seems expensive, but does look like a good one.

Look for windscreens delaminating in the bottom corners (they look a bit milky) as previously mentioned replacements are hard to come by.

The same underpinnings as a 75, so take a look at the inboard rear brakes as they are a right pain to work on. Other than that should be pretty reliable.

One thing they aren't really that fast. Only 210bhp, so golf gti type performance (at least in a straight line)

iva cosworth

44,044 posts

162 months

Sunday 10th August 2014
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Look for Jamieboy post in this thread
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...



Edited by iva cosworth on Sunday 10th August 19:38

ucb

939 posts

211 months

Sunday 10th August 2014
quotequote all
I think the one you link to looks lovely and has barely been used. It's not top money for these (at least from what I've seen available)

Headlamps are near impossible to find I understand.

sng45

Original Poster:

497 posts

175 months

Sunday 10th August 2014
quotequote all
Thanks very much for the replies - it seems that spares may be the biggest potential headache - I'm not too concerned about the horse power figure - the Integrale only has 212bhp as standard ( although I've had mine increased to around 296 bhp ) and I've previously had a few 911 2.7 RS's which were also 210bhp - I'm more interested in the enjoyment of driving than out and out power.

Appreciate the replies and would be really interested in the views of anybody who's driven one

Thanks

Steve

jamieboy

5,910 posts

228 months

Monday 11th August 2014
quotequote all
sng45 said:
I've always fancied one of these but have no experience of them whatsoever - does anyone on here own one ? any ideas of how they drive - how useable they are? are they reliable? any "standard" faults etc etc - are all parts still available ? are there any specialists in the UK?
There are a couple of folks on here who run SZs, I've had the mechanically-identical RZ for 16 years.

In my experience, they are perfectly reliable and usable - mine was our only car for years. That said, the youngest of these cars is 21 years old, so you meed to bear that in mind. As someone said above, they're not desperately fast in a straight line (although they're not slow, either) but the cornering ability and the overall driving experience is where the enjoyment is. Mine has a little bit more power than standard and upgraded brakes.

They're generally robust, mechanically, and have a fair amount of commonality with the 75, so there isn't a big problem with getting most of the mechanical parts - bodywork, windscreens, lights, etc. is a different story, with a lot of of bits and pieces either unavailable or in short supply.

They're very much a car from a different era, little things like the indicator and wiper controls, and the wipers themselves, are all a lot more delicate than a modern car. If you're used to the 328 and integrale, you'll know what I mean.

They're not for everyone, but I px'ed a 16v integrale to get mine, and in my opinion the RZ is a more enjoyable car. The integrale is likely ultimately more capable, in absolute terms, but you have to drive the RZ more to get the best out of it, which appeals to me. Many people would disagree, I'm sure. smile

Jamie Porter at the Alfa Workshop is probably the best-known specialist, worth having a chat with him if you're thinking seriously about it. Also worth checking Ed van de Beek's site - there is a lot of good info on there.

errek72

943 posts

245 months

Monday 11th August 2014
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Was looking for an SZ for some time and I looked into it pretty deeply. I still love them by the way.
This one has been for sale for some time I believe. I never saw the car, and cannot pass judgement.
Reason I mention this is that I remembered the ad when I was on holiday in Jersey last year.
I did not get around to call the owner for a view due to three things :
1) Ad specified it was on mainland France (so maybe never drove on Jersey : worth checking smile
2) Jersey has its fair share of performance cars but barely roads to drive them on. Have seen more than one exotic having its nuts revved off when cold in first and second gear. Low mileage maybe, but...
3) Was talking classic cars to a local punter. Basically it is an island. The air is salty and stainless steel windows corrode. Any car that is not treated will be rusty.

And this, in combination with the below, caused me to back off. Perhaps I left an opportunity to others, who will tell...
Restauration of an SZ : what can go on below that plastic bodywork
http://autocosmeticsdrachten.nl/fotogallerie/resta...
Top tip : hire one of these http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0xtFsJY2p0
and look at the spots shown here. If nothing there : fine. If something there : discuss price.

Fantuzzi

3,297 posts

145 months

Monday 11th August 2014
quotequote all
Contemporary reviews raved about them, meant to handle brilliantly, with mad grip for the period.

Any pics of your 2.7 RS'? your profile said you had for of them! Were they real or evocations?

sng45

Original Poster:

497 posts

175 months

Monday 11th August 2014
quotequote all
Fantuzzi said:
Contemporary reviews raved about them, meant to handle brilliantly, with mad grip for the period.

Any pics of your 2.7 RS'? your profile said you had for of them! Were they real or evocations?
I had four original 2.7 RS's - Gulf orange / yellow/ white with blue / white with green - all matching numbers - the only problem is I sold them too soon !

A friend of mine owned 17 of them - thirteen at the same time ! ( he makes me look like an amateur ! )

crostonian

2,427 posts

171 months

Tuesday 12th August 2014
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See Amari have one in stock at a ridiculous price, £39995 as is or £49995 restored! Makes the Jersey car look value.

jamieboy

5,910 posts

228 months

Tuesday 12th August 2014
quotequote all
crostonian said:
See Amari have one in stock at a ridiculous price, £39995 as is or £49995 restored!
We were talking about that one on the AROC forum when it first went up. Whatever the rights and wrongs of that particular car, is it really a ridiculous price, or it just a bit closer to where values ought to be?

Alfa Romeo and Zagato are two of the best names in the business, the engine is recognised as one of the greats, the chassis was tuned by the man who transformed the Delta from humdrum shopping-hatch, and most reviews (both contemporary and retrospective) have found it to be something pretty special. Factor in the rarity (there are more so-called "limited edition" integrales than SZs and RZs combined) and suddenly it looks odd that some other cars which are less special, less capable, less significant, less iconic are able to command a higher price than the SZ.

Maybe they ought not to be as affordable as they are. smile

PhilipAlfa

359 posts

173 months

Wednesday 13th August 2014
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I've had my SZ for about 8 years now - which is the longest i've ever owned a car, which I guess must say something. I think everyone and Jamie in particular has summarised the car pretty well - great fun, reliable but yes some body parts can be hard (though not impossible) to find.

Personally I would only buy from from a SZ specialist or get a car inspected by them. If you want to drop me a PM I can put you in touch with the SZ Registrar of the Alfa Owners Club - he normally knows of a one or two cars for sale and will know the history of them.

I'll be taking my SZ to the Sunday Service at the end of August in Herts County Showground and if you can attend you can happily take a look around the car.

Sorry, just re read the original post - if you want a specialist try www.alfaaid.co.uk - I bought my car from these guys and they continue to maintain it for me and look after quite a few besides.

Good luck!

Philip

Edited by PhilipAlfa on Wednesday 13th August 10:09

Fantuzzi

3,297 posts

145 months

Wednesday 13th August 2014
quotequote all
sng45 said:
I had four original 2.7 RS's - Gulf orange / yellow/ white with blue / white with green - all matching numbers - the only problem is I sold them too soon !

A friend of mine owned 17 of them - thirteen at the same time ! ( he makes me look like an amateur ! )
That's awesome! I know they're silly money now.

Were they Touring or lightweight models? Are they as brilliant to drive as reputation has it, or better?

Sorry for disrupting the thread...


crostonian

2,427 posts

171 months

Thursday 14th August 2014
quotequote all
jamieboy said:
crostonian said:
See Amari have one in stock at a ridiculous price, £39995 as is or £49995 restored!
We were talking about that one on the AROC forum when it first went up. Whatever the rights and wrongs of that particular car, is it really a ridiculous price, or it just a bit closer to where values ought to be?

Maybe they ought not to be as affordable as they are. smile
I agree they do seem under valued given the pedigree and would certainly be in my top 10 list of relatively affordable cars with investment potential and the ability to turn up at a top end event and not look out of place.

I just think the Amari car looks over priced compared to what else is on the market TODAY, not just in the UK but in Europe. I suppose that as soon as one is entered at a top end sale in Monaco or London and sells for £60k which inevitably will happen then I will have egg on my face!

sng45

Original Poster:

497 posts

175 months

Thursday 14th August 2014
quotequote all
Fantuzzi said:
sng45 said:
I had four original 2.7 RS's - Gulf orange / yellow/ white with blue / white with green - all matching numbers - the only problem is I sold them too soon !

A friend of mine owned 17 of them - thirteen at the same time ! ( he makes me look like an amateur ! )
That's awesome! I know they're silly money now.

Were they Touring or lightweight models? Are they as brilliant to drive as reputation has it, or better?

Sorry for disrupting the thread...
They were Tourings ( I almost bought a Lightweight off a chap in Monaco in 2007 but I thought it was too expensive at £84,000 - now heading towards £1Million ! ) - I feel the reputation they have is built on hype - they certainly weren't the best 911's I ever had ( I've had 28 of them ) - the best one to drive was an ex R-Gruppe 911 T "hot-rod" with rose jointed suspension and an RS engine- the one I enjoy the most is my present 3.2 Carrera. I certainly wouldn't pay half a million quid for an M472 Touring - my first one was forty grand !

sng45

Original Poster:

497 posts

175 months

Thursday 14th August 2014
quotequote all
Thanks for all the posts re the SZ - I've called a few specialists mentioned on here ( most of the guys I need to speak to seem to be on holiday this week but I'm in no rush) - certainly some interesting comments re details I'd not even considered, sea air on Jersey for example and also the potential for dramatic increase in value when an SZ hits a "big" auction

Very much appreciated

crostonian

2,427 posts

171 months

Friday 15th August 2014
quotequote all
One thing I've noticed is many cars don't seem to have the pack of goodies that came with them when new, detailed here on this good dutch SZ site under 'comes with the car'. There was a red car branded car cover, leather spare wheel bag etc;

http://home.wxs.nl/~evdbeek/szcocar.html


darreni

3,754 posts

269 months

Friday 15th August 2014
quotequote all
sng45 said:
Thanks for all the posts re the SZ - I've called a few specialists mentioned on here ( most of the guys I need to speak to seem to be on holiday this week but I'm in no rush) - certainly some interesting comments re details I'd not even considered, sea air on Jersey for example and also the potential for dramatic increase in value when an SZ hits a "big" auction

Very much appreciated
Check if the car was originally first registered (or still is) in Jersey, you will need to add 20% vat to the price to import & register in the UK.

Fantuzzi

3,297 posts

145 months

Friday 15th August 2014
quotequote all
sng45 said:
Fantuzzi said:
sng45 said:
I had four original 2.7 RS's - Gulf orange / yellow/ white with blue / white with green - all matching numbers - the only problem is I sold them too soon !

A friend of mine owned 17 of them - thirteen at the same time ! ( he makes me look like an amateur ! )
That's awesome! I know they're silly money now.

Were they Touring or lightweight models? Are they as brilliant to drive as reputation has it, or better?

Sorry for disrupting the thread...
They were Tourings ( I almost bought a Lightweight off a chap in Monaco in 2007 but I thought it was too expensive at £84,000 - now heading towards £1Million ! ) - I feel the reputation they have is built on hype - they certainly weren't the best 911's I ever had ( I've had 28 of them ) - the best one to drive was an ex R-Gruppe 911 T "hot-rod" with rose jointed suspension and an RS engine- the one I enjoy the most is my present 3.2 Carrera. I certainly wouldn't pay half a million quid for an M472 Touring - my first one was forty grand !
Yeah the prices are pretty mad! Its interesting to hear peoples views who have owned them, they have such a legendary status like a lot of cars from that vintage, and without driving one for myself its hard to cut through the hype and nostalgia!

Good luck with your SZ and thanks for replying.