Alfa GTV V6 24V
Discussion
Does anyone know what year the 6 speed gearbox was introduced to the GTV V6, and is it worth searching out rather than a 5 speed model?
I have read some things about the catalysts on later cars strangling power a bit more than earlier cars etc but not sure which M/Y this is either?
Any help most appreciated!
I have read some things about the catalysts on later cars strangling power a bit more than earlier cars etc but not sure which M/Y this is either?
Any help most appreciated!
As far as I known the 6 speed box was introduced late 99 early 2000...although mine is march 2000 and still has the 5 speed.
Its a matter of opinion if there's any real benefit of the 6 speed but there are rumors about that its weaker than the 5 speed.
Just find the best you can for your money...and enjoy!
Its a matter of opinion if there's any real benefit of the 6 speed but there are rumors about that its weaker than the 5 speed.
Just find the best you can for your money...and enjoy!
kapiteinlangzaam said:
No more or less than any other car. 15-20 year old cars are always going to have their problems.
My generic advice is dont buy the cheapest!
Yes I was thinking a mid price point - I have seen this one.. My generic advice is dont buy the cheapest!
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...
Dealer has confirmed mileage is genuine, they will do cambelt/waterpump as part of sale, Full S/H, manufactured 18/5/99 so 5 speed. Original car with standard exhaust - no mention of of bushes being done though.
kapiteinlangzaam said:
No more or less than any other car. 15-20 year old cars are always going to have their problems.
My generic advice is dont buy the cheapest!
that's good advice, buy the best you can & keep on top of servicing much like any other car of a similar age.My generic advice is dont buy the cheapest!
alfaowner is probably the best forum for researching, there's a good buyers guide:
http://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/alfa-gtv-andamp-916...
also have a read through this, alfaworkshop's website is pretty comprehensive for parts & servicing costs so will give you an idea of running costs:
http://www.alfaworkshop.co.uk/alfa_romeo_gtv.shtml
I've had mine around 3 years, I'd say budget £250/yr for basic servicing. I'd say on average over past 3 yrs its cost me £900/1000 a year for servicing since its had the cam belt done (around £600) and a new oil cooler fitted this year (total bill: £800) during that time.
Things worth holding out for when searching for one:
pretty obvious but comprehensive service history with a good indie, regular oil changes etc
recent cam belt service
quaiffe/Q2 diff fitted
GTA clutch (often done when the diff is changed)
oil cooler in good nick, pipes not leaking - new one fitted at an indie is around £350ish
check for clonks in the suspension, front wishbones are a known weak point. Also if the rear bushes have recently been changed....there quite a few & its a pig of a job
Worth calling a few of the indies such as autolusso, alfaworkshop etc as they may know if a customer with one for sale.
Usual story, better to spend £5/6k on one with much of the above done rather than £2/3k on a so/so one
the red one on the link looks nice & it a low mileage , personally I'd prefer to buy one privately from an enthusiast on alfaowner or similar (they have a for sale section), or a specialist dealer. IMO a general car dealer wouldn't inspire confidence if I was looking for one
Edited by george123 on Tuesday 25th August 11:00
Yes the 6 speed was initially an option on the Phase 2 cars but eventually became standard, at least in the UK, seem to remember late 2000 being the crossover point. I used to deal in them when they were almost new and whilst I preferred the 6 speed, mainly as the change feels more precise and shorter shifting, my father always preferred the 5 speed. He always used to go on about how for overtakes you always seemed to need to change gear half way past whereas in the 5 speed, 3rd gear had such a wide spread you could virtually use it everywhere.
Looking back, as with the 147 and 156 I actually prefer the look of the Phase 1 GTV now yet in period I preferred the facelift of all the models. I suppose my ideal GTV would be one of the 1998 Phase 1 '100s' (referring to how many were imported) 3 litres with the 5 speed box, leather (not MOMO) interior and the original dash but with the 3 spoke steering wheel.
Here's a pic of my old mans Phase 1 3.0 back in 2003, you can just see the red Brembo calipers.
And here is the holy grail of GTV interiors, Red Style with Heated and Electrically Adjustable Recaros. This was a 2001 3.0 which had been ordered new in Germany when cars in the UK were very expensive, of literally 100s of GTVs that have passed through my hands this is the only one I ever saw with this interior
Although I did have another with Tan recaros and pictured below is one with the standard Tan leather for comparison;
Looking back, as with the 147 and 156 I actually prefer the look of the Phase 1 GTV now yet in period I preferred the facelift of all the models. I suppose my ideal GTV would be one of the 1998 Phase 1 '100s' (referring to how many were imported) 3 litres with the 5 speed box, leather (not MOMO) interior and the original dash but with the 3 spoke steering wheel.
Here's a pic of my old mans Phase 1 3.0 back in 2003, you can just see the red Brembo calipers.
And here is the holy grail of GTV interiors, Red Style with Heated and Electrically Adjustable Recaros. This was a 2001 3.0 which had been ordered new in Germany when cars in the UK were very expensive, of literally 100s of GTVs that have passed through my hands this is the only one I ever saw with this interior
Although I did have another with Tan recaros and pictured below is one with the standard Tan leather for comparison;
Edited by crostonian on Wednesday 26th August 18:28
I had been deliberating for some time on a V6 GTV as I knew a good one that was available.
It was S reg 6 speed with new cam belt, Q2 diff, GTA clutch and flywheel, Supersprint exhaust, 72k miles and comprehensive history.
My deliberation was that I needed it for an 85 mile commute as my daily.
The car immobilised itself the night I picked it up, was the key code sensor playing up, but this would clear after a few gos.
During the following week there were a few clonks on the front when turning at parking speeds. Then on the Monday morning the car conked out at a crossroads in the pouring rain. Wouldn't rev past 1k and the engine management light came on. Towed back to the garage, diagnosed as the throttle potentiometer.
Was fixed, but then had a misfire at part throttle which I think was linked to the throttle problem.
By this stage I had lost all confidence as I needed the car for work. This was a well looked after example with low mileage, just unlucky these issues surfaced in the first two weeks of my ownership.
Moral of the story is that as a weekend car it would have been fine, something I always knew, just I found out the hard way....
It was S reg 6 speed with new cam belt, Q2 diff, GTA clutch and flywheel, Supersprint exhaust, 72k miles and comprehensive history.
My deliberation was that I needed it for an 85 mile commute as my daily.
The car immobilised itself the night I picked it up, was the key code sensor playing up, but this would clear after a few gos.
During the following week there were a few clonks on the front when turning at parking speeds. Then on the Monday morning the car conked out at a crossroads in the pouring rain. Wouldn't rev past 1k and the engine management light came on. Towed back to the garage, diagnosed as the throttle potentiometer.
Was fixed, but then had a misfire at part throttle which I think was linked to the throttle problem.
By this stage I had lost all confidence as I needed the car for work. This was a well looked after example with low mileage, just unlucky these issues surfaced in the first two weeks of my ownership.
Moral of the story is that as a weekend car it would have been fine, something I always knew, just I found out the hard way....
In contrast, mine was not a well looked-after example.
Mine was an ex-press car, one of the PhII launch fleet and presumably hammered without care by who-knows how many journalists.
I had an issue with the throttle pot, quickly identified and resolved by a local specialist. Other than that, and routine maintenance / wear-and-tear, I don't think it missed a beat in all the years I owned it.
It was my daily-driver, too, might still have it if the dogs could have fitted in the back.
Mine was an ex-press car, one of the PhII launch fleet and presumably hammered without care by who-knows how many journalists.
I had an issue with the throttle pot, quickly identified and resolved by a local specialist. Other than that, and routine maintenance / wear-and-tear, I don't think it missed a beat in all the years I owned it.
It was my daily-driver, too, might still have it if the dogs could have fitted in the back.
5 speed and 6 speed apparently have the same top ratio but there's just more gears in between on the 6 speed, if that makes sense, have that on good authority from chaps at Autolusso. The main difference is that the 6 speed is more prone to lunching it's diff than the 5 speed resulting in a need for new gearbox, I don't think it's exactly common on either, though.
As mentioned above, alfaowner.com is the place to find out stuff, mine of info and very friendly, helpful members. That buyers guide is pretty definitive. Unless it is specifically apparent from the paperwork the main things which will probably end up needing doing on any V6 car you buy:
Cambelt - needs to be done by someone who knows what they're doing, specifically with this engine. There are specific tools and cam locks which need to be used or you just can't get it right £5-600 job
Rear suspension bushes - wear quickly as rubber made of Wrigleys. Only available OEM as complete arms and v expensive/unavailable. Powerflex replacements good cure but cost approx £250 plus labour, £5-600 bill. Set of OEM arms north of £1000. Front wishbones not that pricey, actually £40-50 each.
Shock absorbers - if not changed by now will definitely be completely shot, not too expensive and make a massive difference
Oil cooler - pipes from engine to cooler corrode at the point they join the cooler as the ends are steel and at the front of the car receiving all the crud. In extreme cases this joint fails and by the time your oil light comes on it's too late. Cooler itself is alloy so they fuse and then break when you try to remove the pipes. OEM cooler and pipes no longer available but Autolusso do a Mocal replacement for a couple of hundred plus fitting.
There are plenty of other more minor things but these are the main ones. I agree with above poster, about £1k a year on maintenance/upgrades to start with then should settle down, that's what's happened with mine.
Tales of woe aside, I love mine to bits and can't see me ever parting with it, they really get under your skin.
Edit: Oh and it's only the CF3 engine which has the cats in the manifold as opposed to the exhaust. I think these were only fitted to the Phase 3 model (the one with the droopy nose) with the 3.2 engine but I might be wrong on that one.
As mentioned above, alfaowner.com is the place to find out stuff, mine of info and very friendly, helpful members. That buyers guide is pretty definitive. Unless it is specifically apparent from the paperwork the main things which will probably end up needing doing on any V6 car you buy:
Cambelt - needs to be done by someone who knows what they're doing, specifically with this engine. There are specific tools and cam locks which need to be used or you just can't get it right £5-600 job
Rear suspension bushes - wear quickly as rubber made of Wrigleys. Only available OEM as complete arms and v expensive/unavailable. Powerflex replacements good cure but cost approx £250 plus labour, £5-600 bill. Set of OEM arms north of £1000. Front wishbones not that pricey, actually £40-50 each.
Shock absorbers - if not changed by now will definitely be completely shot, not too expensive and make a massive difference
Oil cooler - pipes from engine to cooler corrode at the point they join the cooler as the ends are steel and at the front of the car receiving all the crud. In extreme cases this joint fails and by the time your oil light comes on it's too late. Cooler itself is alloy so they fuse and then break when you try to remove the pipes. OEM cooler and pipes no longer available but Autolusso do a Mocal replacement for a couple of hundred plus fitting.
There are plenty of other more minor things but these are the main ones. I agree with above poster, about £1k a year on maintenance/upgrades to start with then should settle down, that's what's happened with mine.
Tales of woe aside, I love mine to bits and can't see me ever parting with it, they really get under your skin.
Edit: Oh and it's only the CF3 engine which has the cats in the manifold as opposed to the exhaust. I think these were only fitted to the Phase 3 model (the one with the droopy nose) with the 3.2 engine but I might be wrong on that one.
Edited by MajorMajor76 on Friday 28th August 15:58
I bought an early ''99 GTV V6 6 speed 18 months ago for under £2k with factory aero kit. I'd never owned a GTV coupe (although an ex had a Spider once) & I was lured by the V6 noise, the style & the character.
I bought mine knowing I'd do the cambelt service, put decent tyres on all round & drive it as much as I could for a 2nd car. Other than a rear suspension cup failure & a mystery misfire that developed recently under high revs, the car has performed faultlessly....oh, & I had a sports exhaust made to liberate the sound. Mine isn't a "mint" version but that's helped as I've driven it all year round. I was also brave enough to take the plenum off & repaint it in a Ferrari crackle red finish - it looks the dog's doodads IMO.
Get yourself onto the Alfa forum & it's a good reading source. The only downside is that some of the parts are getting scarce & hence people are sadly finding the cars are worth more for parts than as complete ones which means they're getting fewer in number
I bought mine knowing I'd do the cambelt service, put decent tyres on all round & drive it as much as I could for a 2nd car. Other than a rear suspension cup failure & a mystery misfire that developed recently under high revs, the car has performed faultlessly....oh, & I had a sports exhaust made to liberate the sound. Mine isn't a "mint" version but that's helped as I've driven it all year round. I was also brave enough to take the plenum off & repaint it in a Ferrari crackle red finish - it looks the dog's doodads IMO.
Get yourself onto the Alfa forum & it's a good reading source. The only downside is that some of the parts are getting scarce & hence people are sadly finding the cars are worth more for parts than as complete ones which means they're getting fewer in number
Our 5spd 1999 V6 lunched its diff a couple of years back, and yes pretty much the whole gearbox. Having got the over the value of the car in time and parts, I baulked at a Q2 diff and lightened flywheel (non DMF... yep, they really are).
Having said that... MoT test this year, inner CV boot and headlight alignment, did a pair of front tyres before too... popped over 12k miles on it last year on the daily commute... big grins all round :-)
(I may have spent, ahem, quite a lot on an OEM exhaust system and a full set of tyres, rear wheel bearings, umm, think that's it from last year.... and no garage delivery curtosey of the RAC either, so not all bad!)
Six speed box would be more fun for playing tunes with the V6, but otherwise there's plenty of torque to sort you out if you're in a higher gear. Now if 6th was an overdrive/higher ratio then that would be good for the motorway.... thought that Alfaholics or someone similar did a higher ratio replacement for 6th actually...?
Buggered diff photo to follow, if I can find it.
Having said that... MoT test this year, inner CV boot and headlight alignment, did a pair of front tyres before too... popped over 12k miles on it last year on the daily commute... big grins all round :-)
(I may have spent, ahem, quite a lot on an OEM exhaust system and a full set of tyres, rear wheel bearings, umm, think that's it from last year.... and no garage delivery curtosey of the RAC either, so not all bad!)
Six speed box would be more fun for playing tunes with the V6, but otherwise there's plenty of torque to sort you out if you're in a higher gear. Now if 6th was an overdrive/higher ratio then that would be good for the motorway.... thought that Alfaholics or someone similar did a higher ratio replacement for 6th actually...?
Buggered diff photo to follow, if I can find it.
Back to the original question, between £4-5K will get you a great example. if you are serious speak to Clive at CG trading, if nothing else he will put you on the right road on what to look for.
basic things are with the GTV V6 to ensure that the Cam belt and water pump have been done correctly if not an Alfa Specialist garage unlikely they have the right tooling for the Cam locks and cut corners with trying to mark TDC on the crank case.
Oil filter Alfa in their wisdom decided to use dissimilar metals in the couplings, no sign of when they are going to go they just let go(have had the experience) change this out for an Autolusso aftermarket one at £200 odd and you'll be fine if not done already.
Remember you are buying a 20 year odd year old car and old design.
People say the twinspark was better handling because lighter front end however the note which the busso makes is so much more likely to put a smile on your face.
I have had mine (Roso GTV V6 Lusso spec) for 6 years now and to be honest other than standard servicing costs at specialist of Approx £2-300 per year has cost me less than my Range Rover Vogue which is 1/4 the age.
CUP model, 150 odd made so keep there value although only difference is an number, slight body kit over the Aero Pack and take away the leather interior 3.0 engine and gear box the same. if I was to do it again would hold out for the 2.0 V6 TB, if you can find one.....
Buy one ..... be happy
basic things are with the GTV V6 to ensure that the Cam belt and water pump have been done correctly if not an Alfa Specialist garage unlikely they have the right tooling for the Cam locks and cut corners with trying to mark TDC on the crank case.
Oil filter Alfa in their wisdom decided to use dissimilar metals in the couplings, no sign of when they are going to go they just let go(have had the experience) change this out for an Autolusso aftermarket one at £200 odd and you'll be fine if not done already.
Remember you are buying a 20 year odd year old car and old design.
People say the twinspark was better handling because lighter front end however the note which the busso makes is so much more likely to put a smile on your face.
I have had mine (Roso GTV V6 Lusso spec) for 6 years now and to be honest other than standard servicing costs at specialist of Approx £2-300 per year has cost me less than my Range Rover Vogue which is 1/4 the age.
CUP model, 150 odd made so keep there value although only difference is an number, slight body kit over the Aero Pack and take away the leather interior 3.0 engine and gear box the same. if I was to do it again would hold out for the 2.0 V6 TB, if you can find one.....
Buy one ..... be happy
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