Alfa V6s disapering?
Discussion
Hey folks
Wondering if its a seasonal thing or if somebody could shed some light on this for me. Around this time last year up until about march this year I was looking at early 00s Alfa Busso V6 and there seemed to be tons of them. Loads of 166/156 2.5/3.0 units for £800-£2000 and GTV V6s for £2500-£5k depending on the quality. I regretfully didnt go for one at the time due to the fact I was just replacing another Alfa that had gone through a spat of severe failures (first immobiliser, then variator and finally the gearbox packed in). However after looking at them again (I really should be looking at something sensible but dat Alfa noise!) Ive found that GTVs have almost doubled in price and the market seems to be devoid of other V6 units (there is a single 156 2.5 on the market with a little too high mileage for me).
Is it just me or have these cars become far more desirable / rare this year? Or do they become more common in winter (would make sense for the GTVs I suppose).
Thanks
Cae
Wondering if its a seasonal thing or if somebody could shed some light on this for me. Around this time last year up until about march this year I was looking at early 00s Alfa Busso V6 and there seemed to be tons of them. Loads of 166/156 2.5/3.0 units for £800-£2000 and GTV V6s for £2500-£5k depending on the quality. I regretfully didnt go for one at the time due to the fact I was just replacing another Alfa that had gone through a spat of severe failures (first immobiliser, then variator and finally the gearbox packed in). However after looking at them again (I really should be looking at something sensible but dat Alfa noise!) Ive found that GTVs have almost doubled in price and the market seems to be devoid of other V6 units (there is a single 156 2.5 on the market with a little too high mileage for me).
Is it just me or have these cars become far more desirable / rare this year? Or do they become more common in winter (would make sense for the GTVs I suppose).
Thanks
Cae
arguti said:
Absolutely spot on!
Try looking for V6 busso engines and even twinspark engines) from a GTV6 or 75 - many have been broken/scrapped, getting more rare by the month.
Hence when I saw a 1993 155 V6 in good nick I immediately bought it !
Any particular reason for this? Or just the fact that even the newest ones are hitting ~10 years old now and are all hitting the end of there usable lives? Its a shame, I made the mistake of going for a clattery diesel and I have a hankerin for something cheap with a nice noise, might be stuck going for a MG KV6 xD.Try looking for V6 busso engines and even twinspark engines) from a GTV6 or 75 - many have been broken/scrapped, getting more rare by the month.
Hence when I saw a 1993 155 V6 in good nick I immediately bought it !
The supply of working cars that can reasonably easily get an MOT is drying up - these were the runners that went for a grand or so. Now all that is left is project cars (£200 max...) and sorted ones (£1500 - £2000).
I've got two 156 V6s. One is the daily driver, quaife diff, sorted suspension, well maintained, if I was selling it (I'm not!) I'd want £2k for it. The other is a project, currently it has needed a m2 of sheet metal welded in and lots of parts....
That said there is a guy on Alfaowner selling what looks like a really good one for £1050, look in the 156 147 > technical lounge.
I've got two 156 V6s. One is the daily driver, quaife diff, sorted suspension, well maintained, if I was selling it (I'm not!) I'd want £2k for it. The other is a project, currently it has needed a m2 of sheet metal welded in and lots of parts....
That said there is a guy on Alfaowner selling what looks like a really good one for £1050, look in the 156 147 > technical lounge.
I have to agree but I can't give a reason. I have a 2.5 156 which I love but I do keep looking at 3.0 GTV's. I don't mind doing some, or even a lot, of work but anything I do see that looks halfway interesting is the other end of the country. In years of looking at cars I've found that 90% are nothing like the description so I'm just reluctant to travel that far to be dissapointed at the end.
I think they're being bought up by enthusiasts but unless you can work on the engines, they prohibitively expense to run relative to current values?
Then again looking at the cost of running a modern (durty) wiesel, I don't suppose they're that bad in terms of maintenance costs...
One thing I do know is that my Dad won't sell his novel white mk2 156SW V6... He can't find anything he'd prefer.
Then again looking at the cost of running a modern (durty) wiesel, I don't suppose they're that bad in terms of maintenance costs...
One thing I do know is that my Dad won't sell his novel white mk2 156SW V6... He can't find anything he'd prefer.
V6 engines are fine. The bottom ends are bombproof and the valves don't burn even at high mileage. As long as the oil is changed regularly, they are good for 200k. The only real expense is the belt: 72k miles or 5 years, whichever you reach first. £450 or so to do the job properly. Gearboxes are largely problem free. Suspension is made of chocolate, but not expensive or hard to do yourself.
Rust is the killer. Very variable, but all of the pre 2000 cars are likely to need serious welding by now. The later cars are pot luck. My 51 plate is fine, but I've seen 54 plates being scrapped because of corrosion.
Rust is the killer. Very variable, but all of the pre 2000 cars are likely to need serious welding by now. The later cars are pot luck. My 51 plate is fine, but I've seen 54 plates being scrapped because of corrosion.
V6 engines are fine. The bottom ends are bombproof and the valves don't burn even at high mileage. As long as the oil is changed regularly, they are good for 200k. The only real expense is the belt: 72k miles or 5 years, whichever you reach first. £450 or so to do the job properly. Gearboxes are largely problem free. Suspension is made of chocolate, but not expensive or hard to do yourself.
Rust is the killer. Very variable, but all of the pre 2000 cars are likely to need serious welding by now. The later cars are pot luck. My 51 plate is fine, but I've seen 54 plates being scrapped because of corrosion.
Rust is the killer. Very variable, but all of the pre 2000 cars are likely to need serious welding by now. The later cars are pot luck. My 51 plate is fine, but I've seen 54 plates being scrapped because of corrosion.
Doesnt help that people like myself bought them up when you were looking ! Lol currently own 3 Busso V6s but fear when my 156 see's its last days, i will struggle to (if ever) replace and i just cant bring myself to buy something modern and sensible.. that just does not compute !!
Good luck on your search, it seems fleabay and bumtree and best places to find at the moment but their all punts at best IMO (also check car and classic if you dont know that one), i missed 1 V6 on a 52 plate a couple years back that im half hoping will come back up one day but people just bin them now, buy for peanuts and drive until pop.. Doesnt help that most cannot afford the service or cambelts and so a lot of good cars lost due to poor ownership..
Personal opinion, dont let the milage put you off, my daily 156 has over 130k on clock and still going strong and my GTV has over 100k and still drives like a gem !! The appeal of these engines as you said is big and also their put into a lot of kit cars etc and when a car is worth more in parts than it is as a whole, people just tear em down.. I had a 164 V6 a good few years back, if there was one to keep that was it, paid £800 for it and you just cant find them anymore ! Anything older and your really going to struggle now.. UK weather has not help their lifespan.
What car in particular are you looking for ? Im tempted to sell my GTV to do some work to TVR but would be looking north of 4k as i spent more on a refurb gearbox and Q2 diff at Autolusso than i did the car !! Factor in fresh cambelt as i would not sell without and im losing out but alas.. Labour of love right ?
Good luck on your search, it seems fleabay and bumtree and best places to find at the moment but their all punts at best IMO (also check car and classic if you dont know that one), i missed 1 V6 on a 52 plate a couple years back that im half hoping will come back up one day but people just bin them now, buy for peanuts and drive until pop.. Doesnt help that most cannot afford the service or cambelts and so a lot of good cars lost due to poor ownership..
Personal opinion, dont let the milage put you off, my daily 156 has over 130k on clock and still going strong and my GTV has over 100k and still drives like a gem !! The appeal of these engines as you said is big and also their put into a lot of kit cars etc and when a car is worth more in parts than it is as a whole, people just tear em down.. I had a 164 V6 a good few years back, if there was one to keep that was it, paid £800 for it and you just cant find them anymore ! Anything older and your really going to struggle now.. UK weather has not help their lifespan.
What car in particular are you looking for ? Im tempted to sell my GTV to do some work to TVR but would be looking north of 4k as i spent more on a refurb gearbox and Q2 diff at Autolusso than i did the car !! Factor in fresh cambelt as i would not sell without and im losing out but alas.. Labour of love right ?
Theres been a few articles in magazines stating that the GTV/147/156 busso engined cars are going to start rising in price.
Theres loads that have been scrapped and the rest are mainly with enthusiasts who I don't want to sell. These cars are only going to get rarer. Thats why I took off the ad for my GTA SW and decided to keep it.
Theres loads that have been scrapped and the rest are mainly with enthusiasts who I don't want to sell. These cars are only going to get rarer. Thats why I took off the ad for my GTA SW and decided to keep it.
davebem said:
Ive just bought a lovely 156 v6 after a lot of searching. They are disappearing fast which is a massive shame. Some of the demics for sale are worth saving imo.
That looks great. The 2.5 seems much rarer. The best sounding from what I have read. It even pops and bangs on the over run. assadahmed said:
Theres been a few articles in magazines stating that the GTV/147/156 busso engined cars are going to start rising in price.
Theres loads that have been scrapped and the rest are mainly with enthusiasts who I don't want to sell. These cars are only going to get rarer. Thats why I took off the ad for my GTA SW and decided to keep it.
I think they will too. I'm going soon be in a position to get one when my job moves and I do not need a car as a daily. I'm looking for a sub 65k mile 147 GTA. Theres loads that have been scrapped and the rest are mainly with enthusiasts who I don't want to sell. These cars are only going to get rarer. Thats why I took off the ad for my GTA SW and decided to keep it.
Edited by delta0 on Saturday 3rd October 16:17
davebem said:
Ive just bought a lovely 156 v6 after a lot of searching. They are disappearing fast which is a massive shame. Some of the demics for sale are worth saving imo.
That does look good ! My 156 V6 is going for MOT this week and if all goes well and i strip enough off my 156 in front of garage, will be rolling out GTV for cambelt and MOT as well ! Being a 51 plate underneath should be pretty strong too.. Is it facelift interior ? If not, do you want one 
hahaMind me asking what you paid ? Seen a decent looking one for 1.5k recently but i cant really justify another one, nor do i have the space !!
Its a jan 2002 Veloce so it just missed out on the facelift, it has the carbon fibre dash inserts and black leather (but no embossed logo which ive not seen before). Its all jacked up in my garage at the moment, Ive had all the arch linings out and been inspecting the underseal, theres only some minor surface rust in the suspension turrets. The underseal underneath is all solid, although its a little patchy in the wheel arch areas and around the side skirts. The only real rust issue Ive found is on the drivers side there is a bracket that holds the wheel arch lining and bottom of bumper/undertray, this has broken away at the bottom which I will try and source a replacement.
It will be locked away over the winter except for a track day in November, I wont be pushing it too hard though, I just want a taster of what the car is cabable of. In fact im very tempted to by another banger 2.0TS 156 and strip it and cage it for trackdays.
The engine is unbeleivibly smooth and sounds amazing, despite it still havingg a standard exhaust, it still retains the 3 cats. On idle it goes slightly over the 90 mark on the temp gauge but as soon as the fans kick in it goes back down again, is this normal?
I have a diesel 159 as a daily and apart from the obvious engine difference the cars are so different in how they drive and feel. I paid slightly over the odds @1900 because as part of deal the garage did the cambelt, waterpump, front brakes, new radiator and a auto electrician did some rewiring of the lights!
It will be locked away over the winter except for a track day in November, I wont be pushing it too hard though, I just want a taster of what the car is cabable of. In fact im very tempted to by another banger 2.0TS 156 and strip it and cage it for trackdays.
The engine is unbeleivibly smooth and sounds amazing, despite it still havingg a standard exhaust, it still retains the 3 cats. On idle it goes slightly over the 90 mark on the temp gauge but as soon as the fans kick in it goes back down again, is this normal?
I have a diesel 159 as a daily and apart from the obvious engine difference the cars are so different in how they drive and feel. I paid slightly over the odds @1900 because as part of deal the garage did the cambelt, waterpump, front brakes, new radiator and a auto electrician did some rewiring of the lights!
davebem said:
Its a jan 2002 Veloce so it just missed out on the facelift, it has the carbon fibre dash inserts and black leather (but no embossed logo which ive not seen before). Its all jacked up in my garage at the moment, Ive had all the arch linings out and been inspecting the underseal, theres only some minor surface rust in the suspension turrets. The underseal underneath is all solid, although its a little patchy in the wheel arch areas and around the side skirts. The only real rust issue Ive found is on the drivers side there is a bracket that holds the wheel arch lining and bottom of bumper/undertray, this has broken away at the bottom which I will try and source a replacement.
It will be locked away over the winter except for a track day in November, I wont be pushing it too hard though, I just want a taster of what the car is cabable of. In fact im very tempted to by another banger 2.0TS 156 and strip it and cage it for trackdays.
The engine is unbeleivibly smooth and sounds amazing, despite it still havingg a standard exhaust, it still retains the 3 cats. On idle it goes slightly over the 90 mark on the temp gauge but as soon as the fans kick in it goes back down again, is this normal?
I have a diesel 159 as a daily and apart from the obvious engine difference the cars are so different in how they drive and feel. I paid slightly over the odds @1900 because as part of deal the garage did the cambelt, waterpump, front brakes, new radiator and a auto electrician did some rewiring of the lights!
To be fair, your not missing out on the facelift interior, has more electrics and TC but as my daily i wanted it purely for cruise control on motorways.. No embossed logo was introduce circa late 2001 i think, my seats are black leather on a 2003 156 and has no badges etc. As for rust, watch the rear jacking points, both my 156s have issues there..It will be locked away over the winter except for a track day in November, I wont be pushing it too hard though, I just want a taster of what the car is cabable of. In fact im very tempted to by another banger 2.0TS 156 and strip it and cage it for trackdays.
The engine is unbeleivibly smooth and sounds amazing, despite it still havingg a standard exhaust, it still retains the 3 cats. On idle it goes slightly over the 90 mark on the temp gauge but as soon as the fans kick in it goes back down again, is this normal?
I have a diesel 159 as a daily and apart from the obvious engine difference the cars are so different in how they drive and feel. I paid slightly over the odds @1900 because as part of deal the garage did the cambelt, waterpump, front brakes, new radiator and a auto electrician did some rewiring of the lights!
As for tracking it, make sure you do some serious brake work as even without pushing, they will suffer as such a heavy front, if your handy can relocate battery to rear for some weight transfer and if your feeling brave theres about 20kg of sound proofing you can remove
And thats a fair price with cambelt done, especially if done properly - i paid a mere 1k for my current V6 but needed cambelt and radiator (lucky i had just bought a rad for other car before deciding rust was too far gone) but going for re-test on MOT today as she has some minor issues, rust on the damn rear jacking points being one ! But she got a good few years left in her... he hopes !And comparison to 159 is as you say, polar opposites. The 159 is a sluggish and heavy feeling car even in V6 form where as the 156 is a cracking 'compact' saloon and i just cant get enough of them !! Good luck with the car, im sure you will have plenty good miles in it.. Oh and as for temp, it should run at 90 normal so yeah a slight rise in traffic is to be expected, if it runs under 90 is usually sign of sticking thermo ! But do not trust Alfa gauges, take them with a pintch of salt.. il tell you that for free haha
Billiam said:
As for tracking it, make sure you do some serious brake work as even without pushing, they will suffer as such a heavy front, if your handy can relocate battery to rear for some weight transfer and if your feeling brave theres about 20kg of sound proofing you can remove
Thanks for the tips, its had new front discs and pads, and ive bled the system properly, brake lines all checked etc. However the dilema I have is that its too good to be a track car imo, cant bear taking the rear seats out etc, sounds silly but Ive got too attached to it now!!Edited by davebem on Tuesday 13th October 18:18
Gassing Station | Alfa Romeo, Fiat & Lancia | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff