Lancia Beta Starter Motor Problem
Discussion
Evening to you all,
Got a lovely Lancia Beta 1600 Coupe, but have a problem starting the car.
It has every now and then failed to engage starter motor when turning key in ignition, just a click to be heard, not a clunk of starter motor moving, if that makes sense?
Another turn of the key and all is well.
However, I am now just getting a 'click' which is coming from solenoid below fuses below windscreen. I get the occasional clunk but no action.
Car not been started for 4 weeks but is garaged.
What I've done is;
Check battery is charged fully.
Jump start it from another car with a new battery-same result.
Bought and fitted new earth strap from black chassis arm and alternator.
Removed and cleaned all wiring.
Removed red wire from starter motor and cleaned up that and connector. This was difficult to get to.
Have rocked the car about 100mm in second gear to maybe free gear in starter motor.
Hit starter with hammer.
Have changed all solenoids around in order to see if any different.
Cleaned up wires to alternator etc.
Finally, lights work on full no problem from battery, though when I turn ignition on to attempt to start the car lights don't dim at all.
This leads me to think a wire/connector is not allowing enough juice to get to starter motor to then crank engine.
Any tips welcome. I don't want to tackle removing starter motor as radiator has to come out it appears. I think it is wiring, though I've been wrong more often than right.
The only connector I could not undo is the one that connects to just above sump guard, which I can't undo.
Thanks in advance, I have missed going for a spin and it does cars no good sitting like this!
Got a lovely Lancia Beta 1600 Coupe, but have a problem starting the car.
It has every now and then failed to engage starter motor when turning key in ignition, just a click to be heard, not a clunk of starter motor moving, if that makes sense?
Another turn of the key and all is well.
However, I am now just getting a 'click' which is coming from solenoid below fuses below windscreen. I get the occasional clunk but no action.
Car not been started for 4 weeks but is garaged.
What I've done is;
Check battery is charged fully.
Jump start it from another car with a new battery-same result.
Bought and fitted new earth strap from black chassis arm and alternator.
Removed and cleaned all wiring.
Removed red wire from starter motor and cleaned up that and connector. This was difficult to get to.
Have rocked the car about 100mm in second gear to maybe free gear in starter motor.
Hit starter with hammer.
Have changed all solenoids around in order to see if any different.
Cleaned up wires to alternator etc.
Finally, lights work on full no problem from battery, though when I turn ignition on to attempt to start the car lights don't dim at all.
This leads me to think a wire/connector is not allowing enough juice to get to starter motor to then crank engine.
Any tips welcome. I don't want to tackle removing starter motor as radiator has to come out it appears. I think it is wiring, though I've been wrong more often than right.
The only connector I could not undo is the one that connects to just above sump guard, which I can't undo.
Thanks in advance, I have missed going for a spin and it does cars no good sitting like this!
I remember having a similar problem when I had my Coupe ie. The amount of times I took the starter out to clean it up. It was easier with an ie starter because it was slightly shorter than the carb ones and could be maneuvered out without removing anything else.
Have you checked the multiplug in the steering column that connects the ignition barrel to the loom. I ended up fitting a starter button discretely down the column cover because the starter connections within the multiplug weren't 100%. This made a difference in my case and gave much more reliable starting, as well as allowing you to turn the engine over a few times, to get the oil moving, before switching on the ignition and starting it.
Have you checked the multiplug in the steering column that connects the ignition barrel to the loom. I ended up fitting a starter button discretely down the column cover because the starter connections within the multiplug weren't 100%. This made a difference in my case and gave much more reliable starting, as well as allowing you to turn the engine over a few times, to get the oil moving, before switching on the ignition and starting it.
WIL35 said:
I remember having a similar problem when I had my Coupe ie. The amount of times I took the starter out to clean it up. It was easier with an ie starter because it was slightly shorter than the carb ones and could be maneuvered out without removing anything else.
Have you checked the multiplug in the steering column that connects the ignition barrel to the loom. I ended up fitting a starter button discretely down the column cover because the starter connections within the multiplug weren't 100%. This made a difference in my case and gave much more reliable starting, as well as allowing you to turn the engine over a few times, to get the oil moving, before switching on the ignition and starting it.
No, not checked that. I'm borrowing a multimeter tomorrow and will check everything, as I'm sure it is something basic as opposed to mechanical. Have you checked the multiplug in the steering column that connects the ignition barrel to the loom. I ended up fitting a starter button discretely down the column cover because the starter connections within the multiplug weren't 100%. This made a difference in my case and gave much more reliable starting, as well as allowing you to turn the engine over a few times, to get the oil moving, before switching on the ignition and starting it.
Thanks for mentioning it.
Last night I again tried jumping car from the battery of a car that had done a 50 mile trip that day. Still nothing, and I'd cleaned all connectors and given things a good few whacks with a hammer.
It is a pain I have to say, but got to be methodical.
Don't know whether it's the same problem, but some old Alfas suffer with this. I think it's the live feed from the ignition which doesn't send enough current to the solenoid.
We normally solve it by putting a relay in the circuit - remove the feed from the ignition circuit from the solenoid, and use that to "switch" the relay.
You can test this first by taking a live feed straight from the battery and touch it to the connection of the ignition feed on the solenoid (ignition key needs to be turned so the dashboard lights are on).
If the starter works, then it's the same problem.
We normally solve it by putting a relay in the circuit - remove the feed from the ignition circuit from the solenoid, and use that to "switch" the relay.
You can test this first by taking a live feed straight from the battery and touch it to the connection of the ignition feed on the solenoid (ignition key needs to be turned so the dashboard lights are on).
If the starter works, then it's the same problem.
This is common and well known problem with the Betas. I removed the solenoid off the starter on mine, disassembled it and cleaned up the internal terminals. They were all burnt and pitted so didn't make very good contact. I reassembled it with the contact plate flipped over to give a nice flat surface, and then fitted a relay into the circuit. I never had any trouble with it for another ten years of daily driving. Fitted relays to the headlights too, made a huge difference.
Fulvisti said:
This is common and well known problem with the Betas. I removed the solenoid off the starter on mine, disassembled it and cleaned up the internal terminals. They were all burnt and pitted so didn't make very good contact. I reassembled it with the contact plate flipped over to give a nice flat surface, and then fitted a relay into the circuit. I never had any trouble with it for another ten years of daily driving. Fitted relays to the headlights too, made a huge difference.
Thanks for the above info. Did you manage to remove the solenoid without taking the whole starter motor assembly out? I assume you did and this is something I may tackle this weekend.
Well I'm pleased because I removed the started motor without draining cooling system.
What you do have to do is remove one bolt from top of radiator, the strut brace from opposite side to battery, and earth strap.
The radiator can then be moved (the fan is the problem) around so you can in to remove it.
However, if I did it again, I would remove battery, battery tray and then move cables out of the way and some hoses NOT connected to cooling system and see if I could do the job without strut brace being removed, though it only took a minute really.
There are 3 bolts fixing the starter motor in place, one is obscured by the bracket that holds the spring in for clutch, then there is another bolt on the left of this and below it.
I used wd40 and left it for an hour, then managed to undo them. The starter motor then can be prised out with a bit of leverage and away you go. Disconnect wires once off as easier that way.
Looks a bit grubby and appears to my eye that a connection that has been soldered might be the problem, but won't tackle that today.
Hope this helps someone else. Car is a 1600 Coupe.
Solenoid won't come out separately whilst in the car as can't access screws etc.
What you do have to do is remove one bolt from top of radiator, the strut brace from opposite side to battery, and earth strap.
The radiator can then be moved (the fan is the problem) around so you can in to remove it.
However, if I did it again, I would remove battery, battery tray and then move cables out of the way and some hoses NOT connected to cooling system and see if I could do the job without strut brace being removed, though it only took a minute really.
There are 3 bolts fixing the starter motor in place, one is obscured by the bracket that holds the spring in for clutch, then there is another bolt on the left of this and below it.
I used wd40 and left it for an hour, then managed to undo them. The starter motor then can be prised out with a bit of leverage and away you go. Disconnect wires once off as easier that way.
Looks a bit grubby and appears to my eye that a connection that has been soldered might be the problem, but won't tackle that today.
Hope this helps someone else. Car is a 1600 Coupe.
Solenoid won't come out separately whilst in the car as can't access screws etc.
Fulvisti said:
Mine was a Volumex coupe, and it was a while ago now, but pretty sure I removed the whole starter.
Yes, thats what I found too.The screws can't be accessed to solenoid with starter motor where it is.
As above it is only 3 screws that hold starter motor in and it is heavy but easy to get out.
Not loped at it again but will next week I hope.
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