Integrale Evo 2, worth the extra?
Discussion
I had an evo 2 and it probably wasn't. However it was easy to sell andI more than got my money back after 18 months ownership (5k profit), so it was probably worth it. 
The other slight advantage is that the vast majority of 2s wtere cherished from new which wasn't always the case with lower value 1s.
The other slight advantage is that the vast majority of 2s wtere cherished from new which wasn't always the case with lower value 1s.
Unusual though isn't it, the Evo 1 was the last factory Lancia to win a world rally, was the last WRC championship winning Lancia and the last Integrale built by Lancia too. It also has the bigger turbo which is something that makes Escort Cosworths more desirable plus I heard it described as being more 'raw' than the Evo 2 which was more refined. Usually the more raw variants with motorsport pedigree are the ones that combine the higher prices.
As you say though, Evo 2s were better looked after on the whole, much like the RS500 Cosworths but surely that makes perfect examples of the more commonly abused models even rarer? Try finding a perfect 8v or 16v Integrale or Sapphire Cosworth! I've been looking for years!
As you say though, Evo 2s were better looked after on the whole, much like the RS500 Cosworths but surely that makes perfect examples of the more commonly abused models even rarer? Try finding a perfect 8v or 16v Integrale or Sapphire Cosworth! I've been looking for years!
Thanks, very useful to hear from some owners with experience.
I share that view although of course the Evo 1 values have been catching up with the Evo 2 lately, I saw that coming 12 months ago but couldn't find a nice example to take advantage of it. Still a useful saving to be had however. Evo 2s appear to hang around for quite a while at £45k same for the best Evo 1s for sale which are currently in the mid-high 30's range so hopefully that means that I can negotiate down on price.
I share that view although of course the Evo 1 values have been catching up with the Evo 2 lately, I saw that coming 12 months ago but couldn't find a nice example to take advantage of it. Still a useful saving to be had however. Evo 2s appear to hang around for quite a while at £45k same for the best Evo 1s for sale which are currently in the mid-high 30's range so hopefully that means that I can negotiate down on price.
Not sure how true it is, but the story goes that Evo 2s are more reliable and less prone to rust. The flip side is that the 1 is more 'authentic'
I have an Evo 2, and it is certainly very reliable, and i have not had any issues in 3+ years. Conicidence or not, I looked at a number of Evo 1s first, and none of them were in great shape.
Either way, the prices keep going up, even though the cars don't seem to sell very often! i remember when i was looking, that the same cars would sit on stock lists, ticking up in price every few months.
I have an Evo 2, and it is certainly very reliable, and i have not had any issues in 3+ years. Conicidence or not, I looked at a number of Evo 1s first, and none of them were in great shape.
Either way, the prices keep going up, even though the cars don't seem to sell very often! i remember when i was looking, that the same cars would sit on stock lists, ticking up in price every few months.
twinturban said:
It seems to me the Evo 2 commands a £10k premium over the Evo 1. Any idea why and is it worth it?
Bigger (16") wheels, bigger gutter trim, better seats, better colours, smaller turbo (easier to drive on the road), blue tinted Solextra glass, more intelligent ECU, wasted spark/twin coil (no dizzy) and not as old. They all add up - try and find some genuine 16" wheels and a pair of good condition recaros for sale......I've never noticed much difference build quality and definitely not corrosion resistance, the Evo 2s tended to be more cherished and less likely to be used a daily driver than the earlier models.
Edited by Evoluzione on Tuesday 23 February 17:53
Evo 2 for show but an Evo 1 to drive. Met a chap a couple of years back at AutoItalia, Brooklands and he had a lovely dealer edition Evo2, still had all the plastic on the carpet and door cards and was lovely. However, when asked how often it was used he said he only used if for that show and a couple of others throughout the year. I can understand why as that car has investment potential but it certainly wouldn't be for me. I like to think mine is a decent example, yes it's peppered with stone chips and a bubble or two, but it gets driven everywhere and puts a smile on my face every time. I couldn't have an integrale that I couldn't use to the full, so a mint example Evo 2 just wouldn't suit me. Each to their own though.... 
Hi, I went for the Evo 2, the Evo 1 is a little more raw in it's power delivery due to the bigger turbo however for me the larger wheels, colour coded gutters & highback interior just make it look that little bit more special! The 2's are meant to be better built but a well looked after 1 should be equally as reliable. Some of the special editions are going for higher prices even though they the majority are just a diff paint job and standard cars are now equally as rare. Get yourself any integrale with full history that's been well looked after and you'll have a blast with enough power to embarrass some modern supposed hot hatches, fantastic feel on the road and the odd nod of appreciation from other well educated road users.
Cheers
Cheers
They are generally perceived to be better screwed together. There was also a lot less of them made so perhaps the premium covers a mix of things including rarity. If you ignore the limited editions there was only 1200 standard (Red / White or Blue) Evo 2's made versus in excess of 9400 Evo 1 / Evo 1 cat cars.
HF Integrale 16V Evo1 (831ABO27) - 1991-1992: 6,451
(6,451 includes 4 special editions: 500 Verde York, 400 Giallo Ferrari, 400 Martini 5, and 310 Martini 6)
HF Integrale 8V Evo1 cat. (831ABO28) - 1991-1992: 4,650
HF Integrale 16V Evo2 cat. (831ABO29) - 1993-1994: 2,481 (2,481 includes 7 special editions: 220 Giallo Ginestra, 20 Club HiFi, 8 Club Italia, 365 La Perla, 215 Blu Lagos, 177 Dealer Collection, and 251 Edizione Finale)
HF Integrale 16V Evo1 (831ABO27) - 1991-1992: 6,451
(6,451 includes 4 special editions: 500 Verde York, 400 Giallo Ferrari, 400 Martini 5, and 310 Martini 6)
HF Integrale 8V Evo1 cat. (831ABO28) - 1991-1992: 4,650
HF Integrale 16V Evo2 cat. (831ABO29) - 1993-1994: 2,481 (2,481 includes 7 special editions: 220 Giallo Ginestra, 20 Club HiFi, 8 Club Italia, 365 La Perla, 215 Blu Lagos, 177 Dealer Collection, and 251 Edizione Finale)
Thanks but they're are loads more Evo 2s for sale currently than Evo 1s.
They did an 8v Evo 1?! Really?! Or was that a typo?
Saw a yellow Evo 2 last week. There are at least 5 for sale at the moment on PH alone, each one saying how rare they are!
They did an 8v Evo 1?! Really?! Or was that a typo?
Saw a yellow Evo 2 last week. There are at least 5 for sale at the moment on PH alone, each one saying how rare they are!
Edited by twinturban on Monday 29th February 09:17
Yes, the Swiss had an 8v with the Evo body, not sure if this was also sold elsewhere.
So on Andy's point if only 1,200 standard Evo 2's were made and most people went for red my Lord Blue must be rarer than a Martini 5!
If you take a look at how many are left website this doesn't show the Evo 1 and Evo 2 separately but take a look at the qty on SORN - these cars are meant to be driven at least in the summer months not kept cooped up in a collection!
Was at Race Retro yesterday and the Martini 5 with 50km on the clock sold for £95k + 12.5% buyers premium - bet this doesn't see a nice B road!
Cheers
So on Andy's point if only 1,200 standard Evo 2's were made and most people went for red my Lord Blue must be rarer than a Martini 5!
If you take a look at how many are left website this doesn't show the Evo 1 and Evo 2 separately but take a look at the qty on SORN - these cars are meant to be driven at least in the summer months not kept cooped up in a collection!
Was at Race Retro yesterday and the Martini 5 with 50km on the clock sold for £95k + 12.5% buyers premium - bet this doesn't see a nice B road!
Cheers
The Swiss can't have had 4000 8v Evo 1s though surely?
Yes I was quite pleased the Martini 5 broke £100k especially when Mondials are pushing 80k and E46 CSLs past 100k. However it's a really pointless car that will never be used. Each to their own on that. No doubt the owner already has at least one other Integrale so good luck to him.
Yes I was quite pleased the Martini 5 broke £100k especially when Mondials are pushing 80k and E46 CSLs past 100k. However it's a really pointless car that will never be used. Each to their own on that. No doubt the owner already has at least one other Integrale so good luck to him.
I wouldn't put much trust in the factory quoted figures, they had a habit of telling you what you wanted to hear back in the day. It's been noted plenty of times that there appears to be a suspiciously large amount of Giallos around to say they only made 220. Theories as to why range from them quoting what was sent to one market only, another that you could spec any colour and interior you wanted so a lot more were made outside of the quoted 220. There wasn't a numbered plate in a Giallo like the other 'specials' either.
Rumour also has it that when Lancia had to make a certain amount of cars (The S4 IIRC) for Homologation they fell short when the inspector was due. They put half of what was needed in a field and got him out to count them, they then took him for a fine lunch with plenty of Vino whilst the cars were moved to a different location for the afternoons count.
The reason you are seeing so many Evo 2s for sale is that many are coming from Japan, if you are going to pay circa £1k for a container to ship you need to maximise your profit on its content so are unlikely to bring a 16v or 8v over.
Rumour also has it that when Lancia had to make a certain amount of cars (The S4 IIRC) for Homologation they fell short when the inspector was due. They put half of what was needed in a field and got him out to count them, they then took him for a fine lunch with plenty of Vino whilst the cars were moved to a different location for the afternoons count.
The reason you are seeing so many Evo 2s for sale is that many are coming from Japan, if you are going to pay circa £1k for a container to ship you need to maximise your profit on its content so are unlikely to bring a 16v or 8v over.
Evoluzione said:
Rumour also has it that when Lancia had to make a certain amount of cars (The S4 IIRC) for Homologation they fell short when the inspector was due. They put half of what was needed in a field and got him out to count them, they then took him for a fine lunch with plenty of Vino whilst the cars were moved to a different location for the afternoons count.
That may be one of those urban myths as the same story is told for the Ferrari 250 GTO, with Enzo ordering cars to be shuffled to different warehouses during a lunch break and chassis numbers skipping a few to give the impression more cars were manufactured.Harris_I said:
Evoluzione said:
Rumour also has it that when Lancia had to make a certain amount of cars (The S4 IIRC) for Homologation they fell short when the inspector was due. They put half of what was needed in a field and got him out to count them, they then took him for a fine lunch with plenty of Vino whilst the cars were moved to a different location for the afternoons count.
That may be one of those urban myths as the same story is told for the Ferrari 250 GTO, with Enzo ordering cars to be shuffled to different warehouses during a lunch break and chassis numbers skipping a few to give the impression more cars were manufactured.
After having become mildly obsessed with the Evo1, I've put a deposit down on one today. They've caught up to the Evo2 values quickly in the last 18 months but the cat I've just gone for would have cost a lot more as an evo2. Having sat in a few cars recently I'm convinced the Evo1 seats place you slightly lower in the car and allow a bit more headroom and knee room to the steering wheel. Being a bit too big for a Delta this is useful. Of course the E2 seats grip you better but I get on with the older style seats better. I also slightly prefer the Evo 1 wheel. I was shown the two turbos and was surprised at the difference in size, not that I'll be tuning it at all.
Can't wait to see the car again it's a truly stunning example, but will be getting it inspected next week just for peace of mind. The last time I drove an Integrale was in 1991. Sadly it didn't end well for me or the car. It was a 16v, I hear the Evos handle much better!
Can't wait to see the car again it's a truly stunning example, but will be getting it inspected next week just for peace of mind. The last time I drove an Integrale was in 1991. Sadly it didn't end well for me or the car. It was a 16v, I hear the Evos handle much better!
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