Long term porsche owner fancing an Alfa SZ ......
Discussion
Having had 7 x 911's Ive always fancied something unique and Italian . Ive now got the two 911's that ive longed for and would love to add an alfa to even the balance ....ive always admired the rare and unique SZ. I'm at the very early stags of actual physical research but have pondered the SZ in my mind for quite some time. I find them both fascinating and delightful.
Id welcome any views / opinions / feedback / thoughts / models etc .....
Many thanks in advance
Barry (Glasgow)
Id welcome any views / opinions / feedback / thoughts / models etc .....
Many thanks in advance
Barry (Glasgow)
There are a couple of folks on here who run SZs, I've had the mechanically-identical RZ for 18 years. Post up if you have any specific queries, I'm sure one of us willl try to answer.
In my experience, they are perfectly reliable and usable - mine was our only car for years. That said, the youngest of these cars is around 25 years old, so you meed to bear that in mind. They're not desperately fast in a straight line (although they're not slow, either) but the cornering ability and the overall driving experience is where the enjoyment is. Mine has a little bit more power than standard and upgraded brakes.
They're generally robust, mechanically, and have a fair amount of commonality with the 75, so there isn't a massive problem with getting most of the mechanical parts - however bodywork, windscreens, lights, etc. is a different story, with a lot of of bits and pieces either unavailable or in short supply.
They're very much a car from a different era, little things like the indicator and wiper controls, and the wipers themselves, are all a lot more delicate than a modern car. In Porsche terms, I think they were contemporaneous with the 964, if that gives any idea.
They're not for everyone, but I px'ed a 16v integrale to get mine, and in my opinion the RZ is a more enjoyable car. The integrale is likely ultimately more capable, in absolute terms, but you have to drive the RZ more to get the best out of it, which appeals to me. Many people would disagree, I'm sure.
Jamie Porter at the Alfa Workshop is probably the best-known specialist, worth having a chat with him and Adrian at Alfa Aid if you're thinking seriously about it. Also worth checking Ed van de Beek's site - there is a lot of good info on there. The other problem we have locally (I'm In Aberdeenshire) is people who know how to look after them properly - Stewart McLennan over in Loanhead looked after mine when I was in Edinburgh, not sure if there is anyone else in Scotland with any / much experience of them, and all the recognised specialists seem to be in the South of England....
In my experience, they are perfectly reliable and usable - mine was our only car for years. That said, the youngest of these cars is around 25 years old, so you meed to bear that in mind. They're not desperately fast in a straight line (although they're not slow, either) but the cornering ability and the overall driving experience is where the enjoyment is. Mine has a little bit more power than standard and upgraded brakes.
They're generally robust, mechanically, and have a fair amount of commonality with the 75, so there isn't a massive problem with getting most of the mechanical parts - however bodywork, windscreens, lights, etc. is a different story, with a lot of of bits and pieces either unavailable or in short supply.
They're very much a car from a different era, little things like the indicator and wiper controls, and the wipers themselves, are all a lot more delicate than a modern car. In Porsche terms, I think they were contemporaneous with the 964, if that gives any idea.
They're not for everyone, but I px'ed a 16v integrale to get mine, and in my opinion the RZ is a more enjoyable car. The integrale is likely ultimately more capable, in absolute terms, but you have to drive the RZ more to get the best out of it, which appeals to me. Many people would disagree, I'm sure.
Jamie Porter at the Alfa Workshop is probably the best-known specialist, worth having a chat with him and Adrian at Alfa Aid if you're thinking seriously about it. Also worth checking Ed van de Beek's site - there is a lot of good info on there. The other problem we have locally (I'm In Aberdeenshire) is people who know how to look after them properly - Stewart McLennan over in Loanhead looked after mine when I was in Edinburgh, not sure if there is anyone else in Scotland with any / much experience of them, and all the recognised specialists seem to be in the South of England....
Edited by jamies30 on Sunday 10th April 18:45
I'm in a similar boat to you - I've owned twenty eight 911's ( and still have a couple at the moment ) and always fancied an SZ Zagato , I'm quite into quirky and different cars ( I have an "outlaw" 356, Fiat 500 Abarth rep' and "hotrod" Datsun 240Z ) so the "Monstro" was definately on my list.I bought one last year, I've driven it quite a bit and am very impressed with the handling, acceleration and the overall driving "feel" . I've had some fairly out and out fast cars in the past but now find myself enjoying driving along the lines of "it's not how fast you go but how you go fast" and the SZ fits the bill perfectly .
My car is "non standard" in that it has a 24v engine rather than the original 12v and that gives it slightly better performance which I feel is a major benefit, my days of being concerned about "matching numbers" are long gone - I'd rather have something that's enjoyable to drive than something I'm concerned over driving !
In a nutshell the car's great and unique, cool, different and on the basis that only 1030 were made, you're more likely to see an F40 coming the other way ! According to the article in "Classic cars" magazine this month there are only around 680 left worldwide. I was at the Essen classic car show last week and there were two up for sale or should I say two which had both been sold ( in a couple of days ) and both drew lots of attention.
If you're in any doubt about buying one - watch this !
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9j3K6ctySyU
My car is "non standard" in that it has a 24v engine rather than the original 12v and that gives it slightly better performance which I feel is a major benefit, my days of being concerned about "matching numbers" are long gone - I'd rather have something that's enjoyable to drive than something I'm concerned over driving !
In a nutshell the car's great and unique, cool, different and on the basis that only 1030 were made, you're more likely to see an F40 coming the other way ! According to the article in "Classic cars" magazine this month there are only around 680 left worldwide. I was at the Essen classic car show last week and there were two up for sale or should I say two which had both been sold ( in a couple of days ) and both drew lots of attention.
If you're in any doubt about buying one - watch this !
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9j3K6ctySyU
Edited by sng45 on Sunday 10th April 21:03
Edited by sng45 on Sunday 10th April 21:40
I'd love an SZ, but unless I sell my bertone and my 75, it's beyond reach.
Anyway, they share a lot with the 75 v6 mechanically, thus parts are relatively easily available, and also easy upgrades about to. The engine has slightly higher compression ratio pistons and hotter cams than the v6 cloverleaf 75.
From what I've heard it's all about the resin body work...........and headlights.
Oh, interior and dash is also specific to the SZ.
As mentioned above, Jamie porters worth a look up
http://www.alfaworkshop.co.uk/alfa_sz.shtml
You may need to look abroad to find one.
Anyway, they share a lot with the 75 v6 mechanically, thus parts are relatively easily available, and also easy upgrades about to. The engine has slightly higher compression ratio pistons and hotter cams than the v6 cloverleaf 75.
From what I've heard it's all about the resin body work...........and headlights.
Oh, interior and dash is also specific to the SZ.
As mentioned above, Jamie porters worth a look up
http://www.alfaworkshop.co.uk/alfa_sz.shtml
You may need to look abroad to find one.
I never knew they raced them, but then again they race everything and everything which is Italian in Italy!
https://www.facebook.com/AlfaRomeobacktoWTCC/photo...
Link takes you to a pic on the FB page devoted to Racing Alfas if you like that kind of thing.
https://www.facebook.com/AlfaRomeobacktoWTCC/photo...
Link takes you to a pic on the FB page devoted to Racing Alfas if you like that kind of thing.
Many thanks so far gents - once again the PH community never fails to deliver. All your feedback and input is greatly appreciated and its been very helpful - so thanks once again for your lengthy replies.
Ive watched the Davide Cironi video - a superb video that oozes passion for the SZ.
What could I expect to pay for an SZ today with sensible miles ? Is the RZ worth the premium (I see that Joe Macari has a yellow one for sale in London)
Finally ....... Im 6'2" so not overly tall, but tall enough to find that I just don't sit comfortably in some French/Italian cars - any feedback on this ?
Many thanks once again guys
Regards
Barry
Ive watched the Davide Cironi video - a superb video that oozes passion for the SZ.
What could I expect to pay for an SZ today with sensible miles ? Is the RZ worth the premium (I see that Joe Macari has a yellow one for sale in London)
Finally ....... Im 6'2" so not overly tall, but tall enough to find that I just don't sit comfortably in some French/Italian cars - any feedback on this ?
Many thanks once again guys
Regards
Barry
As an RZ owner, I don't think they're worth a premium over the SZ. They're maybe (made up figure) 85% as good a drive as the SZ, but they're much less common and maybe more of an event. So I'd say that it all balances out. 85% of the SZ is still better than a lot of cars.
As much as I'd like it to be different, I think Joe is maybe £15k-£20k optimistic with that yellow one.
As much as I'd like it to be different, I think Joe is maybe £15k-£20k optimistic with that yellow one.
Speak to Adrian @Alfaaid (he's the guy consulted in Classic Cars this month).
Also, look here - http://home.wxs.nl/~evdbeek/monster.html
I've only had mine 6 weeks, but it feels very special (I've also just come from a 911 - 996 C2). I agree with what sng45 has said about the driving experience (although mine is standard).
Logically, there will be a premium for RZs, as there are fewer of them - however, the SZ is the original, is marginally more practical, and a little better to drive, as you would expect (although if you're not going on track and like the wind in your hair...).
I'd probably have made Joe Macari an offer on his RZ, but I decided that it had to be an SZ for me. You're probably aware, but a super low milage SZ went for £85k last year, and another (which I looked at) for mid £60s. On the one hand, crazy, but when one considers the rarity, presence and driving experience against some other classics, maybe not so (in the current market) - they can also now be imported into the US, as over 25 years old.
LF
Also, look here - http://home.wxs.nl/~evdbeek/monster.html
I've only had mine 6 weeks, but it feels very special (I've also just come from a 911 - 996 C2). I agree with what sng45 has said about the driving experience (although mine is standard).
Logically, there will be a premium for RZs, as there are fewer of them - however, the SZ is the original, is marginally more practical, and a little better to drive, as you would expect (although if you're not going on track and like the wind in your hair...).
I'd probably have made Joe Macari an offer on his RZ, but I decided that it had to be an SZ for me. You're probably aware, but a super low milage SZ went for £85k last year, and another (which I looked at) for mid £60s. On the one hand, crazy, but when one considers the rarity, presence and driving experience against some other classics, maybe not so (in the current market) - they can also now be imported into the US, as over 25 years old.
LF
Por911T said:
Finally ....... Im 6'2" so not overly tall, but tall enough to find that I just don't sit comfortably in some French/Italian cars - any feedback on this ?
In that case you'll need to sit in one to see how it feels.I'm six foot and have struggled to find a comfortable seating/driving position which supports my bad back and doesn't result in my head touching the roof lining, whilst still being able to press the clutch in far enough and reach the steering wheel!
One owner's solution was to remove the seat runners and bolt the seat to the floor...I didn't fancy that.
wrinx
Por911T said:
Finally ....... Im 6'2" so not overly tall, but tall enough to find that I just don't sit comfortably in some French/Italian cars - any feedback on this ?
I'm 6' and find it ok. The steering wheel is adjustable for rake and height. I think the greater problem is for the shorter driver, as the seats (which are the coolest looking of any car IMHO) just don't go that far forward.Of course, you need to try one!
LF
jamies30 said:
As an RZ owner, I don't think they're worth a premium over the SZ. They're maybe (made up figure) 85% as good a drive as the SZ, but they're much less common and maybe more of an event. So I'd say that it all balances out. 85% of the SZ is still better than a lot of cars.
As much as I'd like it to be different, I think Joe is maybe £15k-£20k optimistic with that yellow one.
Appears to have sold now. Of course at what price we don't know though.As much as I'd like it to be different, I think Joe is maybe £15k-£20k optimistic with that yellow one.
Cheers,
Bryn.
I had a couple a long, long time ago. I'm about six foot and don't remember space feeling like a problem. Amazing handling, modest performance. I found the lights and brakes unacceptably bad.
Check the paintwork. One of mine appeared to have unprimed patches from the factory and some of the RZs I've seen were even worse for that.
This site - http://home.wxs.nl/~evdbeek/monster.html is a great resource if you haven't discovered it already.
Check the paintwork. One of mine appeared to have unprimed patches from the factory and some of the RZs I've seen were even worse for that.
This site - http://home.wxs.nl/~evdbeek/monster.html is a great resource if you haven't discovered it already.
I also had 7 x 911
sz or rather ES 30 is an "experience"!
difficult to find something similar.
there I've had it for 10 years.
the engine is lacking at least 50 hp to go really strong.
I put a 24v elaborated ....
on the track you have to change the larger brake discs and calipers.
otherwise incredible lateral grip, it seems 4x4. !!!
at the time of QUATTRORUOTE, Italian newspaper, gave 1.4 g!
interiors are very supercar artigianle.
good spare parts other than those of the body and some special mechanical piece.
ah: the world's best sound!
Today in Italy 100.000e coast
sz or rather ES 30 is an "experience"!
difficult to find something similar.
there I've had it for 10 years.
the engine is lacking at least 50 hp to go really strong.
I put a 24v elaborated ....
on the track you have to change the larger brake discs and calipers.
otherwise incredible lateral grip, it seems 4x4. !!!
at the time of QUATTRORUOTE, Italian newspaper, gave 1.4 g!
interiors are very supercar artigianle.
good spare parts other than those of the body and some special mechanical piece.
ah: the world's best sound!
Today in Italy 100.000e coast
Interesting post gents, Im a long term Porsche (x14) owner and have recently gone italian with a S1 1750GTV tarmac car, SZ (#087), Evo1 Integrale and a South African GTV6 3.0 Homologation car.
The SZ is just lovely, would be even better with the SAGTV6 carb set up but as is is a terrific car.
I still have a manual 993 but am thinking that may go as its now a long way down the list for the preferred drive!
The SZ is just lovely, would be even better with the SAGTV6 carb set up but as is is a terrific car.
I still have a manual 993 but am thinking that may go as its now a long way down the list for the preferred drive!
markc88 said:
Interesting post gents, Im a long term Porsche (x14) owner and have recently gone italian with a S1 1750GTV tarmac car, SZ (#087), Evo1 Integrale and a South African GTV6 3.0 Homologation car.
The SZ is just lovely, would be even better with the SAGTV6 carb set up but as is is a terrific car.
I still have a manual 993 but am thinking that may go as its now a long way down the list for the preferred drive!
Fabulous collection of cars Mark. Do you mind sharing what number /208 your SA GTV6 3.0 is?The SZ is just lovely, would be even better with the SAGTV6 carb set up but as is is a terrific car.
I still have a manual 993 but am thinking that may go as its now a long way down the list for the preferred drive!
I think it's #172 the pirate dealer I bought it through in SA hasn't sent me the books yet (after leaving me with a few thousand aud i
Of his costs with the transport agent). Dealer problems aside it's a very nice car, I'm getting the carbs redone at the moment (again because the dealer charged me for that too, there is a theme here!) And will have it licensed in the next few weeks.
Pic below;
Of his costs with the transport agent). Dealer problems aside it's a very nice car, I'm getting the carbs redone at the moment (again because the dealer charged me for that too, there is a theme here!) And will have it licensed in the next few weeks.
Pic below;
markc88 said:
"the pirate dealer I bought it through in SA"
All too familiar story....you need to speak to Kevin R who knows everything about these cars and which ones were sold and bodged, whose engine is in whose car and which dealers to avoid.......I am sure in 30 years time there will only be around 400 left out of the original 220 or so produced!Im reasonably sure mine is the real deal (I hope so!), it is chassis # ...868 which is in the range of when they where built and it does appear legit.
Coming out of 911 lal la land on pricing even with the dealer "extras" this car was very good value, I just wished they would let you know the real deal upfront instead of ruining the whole buying experience, kind of detracts from the car. The guy had a reasonable reputation but seems he has hit some financial stress and chiselled me instead of being upfront. I can't see a scenario where I will be recommending him to others, especially since I covered the extras and he still won't send the books.
Coming out of 911 lal la land on pricing even with the dealer "extras" this car was very good value, I just wished they would let you know the real deal upfront instead of ruining the whole buying experience, kind of detracts from the car. The guy had a reasonable reputation but seems he has hit some financial stress and chiselled me instead of being upfront. I can't see a scenario where I will be recommending him to others, especially since I covered the extras and he still won't send the books.
Gassing Station | Alfa Romeo, Fiat & Lancia | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff