The new Giulia, odd engine/gearbox options?

[Vitorio]

So the price list just came out for the new Giulia, and im a tad surprised at the engines on offer

petrol wise they offer a 2.0T with 200hp, only with an 8 speed auto, and that is it! (besides the 500hp QV)
Diesel wise there is a 2.2 lump in 136, 150 and 180hp guise, both with a 6 speed manual or 8 speed auto

Why isnt there a sub 200hp petrol? its not like BMW dont offer a 318 with only 136hp, Merc sells a C160 with only 129hp etc... I'd think either a downtuned 1750TB or maybe even the 1.4Multi-air which can do 170hp would be a decent entry level engine, coupled with a manual gearbox it might also drop the entry price for a Giulia below its current €40K (in the netherlands)

Is alfa trying to stay sporty that hard that its willing to forego quite a bunch of sales? and what is with the auto box only on the petrol models?

Realisticly speaking im not the intended audience (dont have the money), but looking at how the 159 did, i might be able to pick up a giulia after its first owner gets bored with it, and i have to say im not that enticed by the engines on offer.

[Benzo26]

I vaguely recall reading somewhere that other petrol engines would be announced over time although I can't for the life of me recall where.

[wal 45]

Vitorio said:

So the price list just came out for the new Giulia, and im a tad surprised at the engines on offer

petrol wise they offer a 2.0T with 200hp, only with an 8 speed auto, and that is it! (besides the 500hp QV)

Seems strange it "only" has 200hp as the 1750 TBi in 159 form has 200hp albeit with poor fuel consumption, in 4C and GQV spec I think it is circa 240hp.

[Vitorio]

wal 45 said:

Seems strange it "only" has 200hp as the 1750 TBi in 159 form has 200hp albeit with poor fuel consumption, in 4C and GQV spec I think it is circa 240hp.

That too!

Vag/Merc/BMW do what, 300-340 hp out of a 2.0T in their hot hatches? given the gap between the 200hp "standard" giulia and the 510hp QV, i wouldve expected a more powerfull 2.0 as well

I can sort of see why they dont want a 1.4 in there, 170hp should be enough, but itll be decidedly un-alfa like to have a 1.4 engine in your big new fancy saloon

[Gio G]

I see Evo have reviewed the Quadrifoglio. Sounds promising...

http://www.evo.co.uk/alfa-romeo/giulia/17702/alfa-...

G

[Ali_T]

The 2.0 is over engineered so 200bhp is the basic model. There's been a 280bhp version shown in the US and there will be a 330-350bhp engine later which will probably power the next gen Giulietta QV. There's been no mention of a slower engine but, why would you want one?

[rxe]

They need a smaller engine for volume sales. This is a similar size to a 156 and the 1.6s - 2.0s sold like hot cakes. Put loads of cars on the road, and made Alfa visible. A 2.0 N/A engine with 160 - 180HP would be more than enough.

BMW do this so well - you can get a cooking 318 (cheap to buy, insurable etc)or whatever, and that sucks you into the upgrade path.

[AndyClockwise]

I don't understand why the Quadrifoglio will have the manual gearbox in the US but not over here.

I would have thought that the UK has a higher percentage of drivers that prefer a manual to the US

[Vitorio]

Ali_T said:

There's been no mention of a slower engine but, why would you want one?

Cheaper? Honestly 200hp is an insane amount of power for the entry level when its predecessors started at 140 and 120 respectively, even if you account for the weight gain and go for the 166 rather then 156, that puts you at 150 from a 2.0TS. And all those engines were turbo-less so lack a lot of low-end torque compared to this 2.0T lump i would assume.

Being able to drop the price a few grand by making an entry level 1.4T 170hp car would make it a lot easier to compete with the 318i, they'd just need to avoid mentioning the actual engine capacity in mainstream marketing (like Merc does)

Im not sure how a 1.4 would handle the weight when its off boost, but some proper tuning/sizing of the turbo should allow for a very capable entry level car, not everyone buys an Alfa to do 130 MPH on the autobahn

[DeltonaS]

https://www.autoedizione.nl/persintr...iulia-is-fe...

Announcement of more engines to come at the Giulia press launch;

2.2jtd 210hp/470NM

2.0 Turbo 280hp
2.0 Biturbo 350hp

[DeltonaS]

Vitorio said:

Cheaper? Honestly 200hp is an insane amount of power for the entry level when its predecessors started at 140 and 120 respectively, even if you account for the weight gain and go for the 166 rather then 156, that puts you at 150 from a 2.0TS. And all those engines were turbo-less so lack a lot of low-end torque compared to this 2.0T lump i would assume.

Being able to drop the price a few grand by making an entry level 1.4T 170hp car would make it a lot easier to compete with the 318i, they'd just need to avoid mentioning the actual engine capacity in mainstream marketing (like Merc does)

Im not sure how a 1.4 would handle the weight when its off boost, but some proper tuning/sizing of the turbo should allow for a very capable entry level car, not everyone buys an Alfa to do 130 MPH on the autobahn

Drove the 1.4 Multiair (170hp) in the Giulietta, it really is an impressive engine.

Very fitting entry level Giulia IMO. And by the way the new Giulia is lighter than the 159.

[Vitorio]

DeltonaS said:

Drove the 1.4 Multiair (170hp) in the Giulietta, it really is an impressive engine.

Very fitting entry level Giulia IMO. And by the way the new Giulia is lighter than the 159.

Havent driven the Giulietta, but i do have experience with the 135 and 155 flavours of Mito, and the 155 would feel right at home in a giulia i´d imagine, i just cant remember how torque was all the way down, but AFAIK the MultiAir system did fix that a bit.

[Guvernator]

I'm more worried about the fact that they don't appear to be offering a manual option in any of the RHD petrol engined cars, even the QV is auto only. A real shame as the mid range 300bhp+ petrol or even the QV would have been a real contender for my next car but with no manual option, I'm out.

[rodericb]

Vitorio said:

Cheaper? Honestly 200hp is an insane amount of power for the entry level when its predecessors started at 140 and 120 respectively, even if you account for the weight gain and go for the 166 rather then 156, that puts you at 150 from a 2.0TS. And all those engines were turbo-less so lack a lot of low-end torque compared to this 2.0T lump i would assume.

Being able to drop the price a few grand by making an entry level 1.4T 170hp car would make it a lot easier to compete with the 318i, they'd just need to avoid mentioning the actual engine capacity in mainstream marketing (like Merc does)

Im not sure how a 1.4 would handle the weight when its off boost, but some proper tuning/sizing of the turbo should allow for a very capable entry level car, not everyone buys an Alfa to do 130 MPH on the autobahn

Unless there is some taxation reason for having some model with restricted power there is not much point to it. Having these tweaked engines is usually just a device to justify a model you can charge more for. The engine is the same, it is electronically limited via the ECU.

[Tony Starks]

I'd say its because people tend to buy diesels nowadays, so why waste time with engines that won't sell as well. Petrol in a small hatch is understandable, but in a mid sized sedan it makes sense to go for diesels for poverty epec models.

[davebem]

The choices do seem a bit odd, I would like a 2.0tbi manual. The Giulia has just been added to the fiat parts system and Ive been trying to figure out from the diagrams why the larger petrol RHD cars dont have any manual options..

But whatever happens, I hope they dont buy in n/a engines and gearboxes from GM again for 50p.

[Stormfly1985]

AndyClockwise said:

I don't understand why the Quadrifoglio will have the manual gearbox in the US but not over here.

I would have thought that the UK has a higher percentage of drivers that prefer a manual to the US

Cost of engineering it vs how many they will sell RHD I suppose.

[robbo 2006]

Being patient with 4th year of ownership of a TBi 159 I'll be in the market for a 2 litre 280 or 350. Auto gearboxes are common place as we know with the German options and as long at the paddles work well and do what you want, I'm for moving onto one of these now.

It won't be long till the indies have tuning/mapping options for the new units and looks like exciting times ahead. I'd personally say it's good Alfa are staying clear of offering lower powered power plants. They're trying to reposition the brand a premium sporty entity.

Cheers,
Iain

[anonymous-user]

Stormfly1985 said:

Cost of engineering it vs how many they will sell RHD I suppose.

Call me an idiot, what cost of engineering??? They've already converted for RHD with the auto, I'd have thought the RHD manual would cost less to produce than the auto?

[z06tim]

AVV EM said:

Stormfly1985 said:

Cost of engineering it vs how many they will sell RHD I suppose.

Call me an idiot, what cost of engineering??? They've already converted for RHD with the auto, I'd have thought the RHD manual would cost less to produce than the auto?

There is always "some" cost with engineering another derivative. It may be small, or it could be quite significant.

It could be as significant as having to re-certify crash tests with that engine/transmission installation. It could be the RHD clutch pedal does not easily package with that installation too, or the crash performance is too compromised, i.e the clutch pedal intrudes too much.