BMW 3 Series E90 - 325i vs 320i - Auto or Manual
Discussion
Another "vs" post...hoping I will get some good advice from you guys.
I am thinking to change my car in the next few months and I was thinking to go for a BMW 3 series as described in the title.
I read a lot online about the difference between the 325 and 320 and a lot of people seem to believe that the 320 is not as reliable as the 3 litre engine. However, the 325 is quite rare and quite a bit more expensive (I'm thinking to spend no more then 9k or maybe 10k if I find a really good car). People are saying that the 320i is underpowered for a car that heavy.
I drove a friend's 320d and it felt quite good but maybe the diesel engine is quite different in terms of how it delivers the power.
Also, all the cars I've oned so far (3 of them) were manual gearbox. I don't claim to be a sporty driver all the time but when I get on twisty country roads I like to have a little fun and I was thinking that a manual gearbox is better for this. However I found more 325/330 in auto than manual (with some sort of pedals on the steering wheel to be able to change gears if you want to...but they don't look like the regular flappy pedal type).
I heard stories about how the same car model can feel very different in manual vs the auto. Do you guys think that it's the case for the E90 as well?
If you would have to chose from auto and manual which would you go for and why.
I am looking for advice from BMW owners or anybody who drove any combination of the models above - 320i (auto and manual) or 325 (auto and manual).
Another things to consider:
- I don't want any diesel engines
- The car will be used mostly on weekends and evenings as I live in London and can't drive to work
- Mostly used for leisure trips (I go out of London every other weekend) inside the UK, but also road trips in Europe. Also for normal supermarket shopping.
Thanks!
I am thinking to change my car in the next few months and I was thinking to go for a BMW 3 series as described in the title.
I read a lot online about the difference between the 325 and 320 and a lot of people seem to believe that the 320 is not as reliable as the 3 litre engine. However, the 325 is quite rare and quite a bit more expensive (I'm thinking to spend no more then 9k or maybe 10k if I find a really good car). People are saying that the 320i is underpowered for a car that heavy.
I drove a friend's 320d and it felt quite good but maybe the diesel engine is quite different in terms of how it delivers the power.
Also, all the cars I've oned so far (3 of them) were manual gearbox. I don't claim to be a sporty driver all the time but when I get on twisty country roads I like to have a little fun and I was thinking that a manual gearbox is better for this. However I found more 325/330 in auto than manual (with some sort of pedals on the steering wheel to be able to change gears if you want to...but they don't look like the regular flappy pedal type).
I heard stories about how the same car model can feel very different in manual vs the auto. Do you guys think that it's the case for the E90 as well?
If you would have to chose from auto and manual which would you go for and why.
I am looking for advice from BMW owners or anybody who drove any combination of the models above - 320i (auto and manual) or 325 (auto and manual).
Another things to consider:
- I don't want any diesel engines
- The car will be used mostly on weekends and evenings as I live in London and can't drive to work
- Mostly used for leisure trips (I go out of London every other weekend) inside the UK, but also road trips in Europe. Also for normal supermarket shopping.
Thanks!
I run a 325i Auto as my daily driver. 325i is definitely a lot quicker than a 320i, but both produce power very differently from the 320d you have driven, so I wouldn't use that as a comparison - have a go in both petrol models.
I picked an Auto as I use mine all the time, spending lots of time in traffic etc, so it's best for that kind of use. The manual is a bit easier to get the full performance from as the Auto is an old fashioned six-speed box and is tuned for economy so likes to pick higher gears - sports mode overcomes this to an extent, plus as you mention they have paddles on the wheel if you want to drive it in 'manual' mode. If I was only using it for weekends and fun, I'd probably go for a manual.
Final thing is I bought a 325i as I couldn't find a suitable 330i, but if you can find one, they have a good chunk more power with no real downsides from a 325i.
I picked an Auto as I use mine all the time, spending lots of time in traffic etc, so it's best for that kind of use. The manual is a bit easier to get the full performance from as the Auto is an old fashioned six-speed box and is tuned for economy so likes to pick higher gears - sports mode overcomes this to an extent, plus as you mention they have paddles on the wheel if you want to drive it in 'manual' mode. If I was only using it for weekends and fun, I'd probably go for a manual.
Final thing is I bought a 325i as I couldn't find a suitable 330i, but if you can find one, they have a good chunk more power with no real downsides from a 325i.
MrBen1 said:
Final thing is I bought a 325i as I couldn't find a suitable 330i, but if you can find one, they have a good chunk more power with no real downsides from a 325i.
This. I've been running a e90 330i for three-and-a-half years now. More reliable than the 325i too because of the better quality piston-rings used.For maximum longevity go for one without the direct injection/high pressure fuel pump. You sacrifice a little BHP on paper, but gummed up inlet ports are going to hurt performance anyway, as are bits of fuel pump in the injectors....!
330 would be great but my budget is limited to 10k. Not many 330 for that money. Even though I plan to keep the car 3-4 years max but I still don't want it to be older than 2008 and have more than 80k miles on it. Also no cat C/D etc.
So unfortunatelly I don't think I can afford a 330.
Also, is it worth looking for an M Sport model?
So unfortunatelly I don't think I can afford a 330.
Also, is it worth looking for an M Sport model?
Do not, I repeat do not go for the 320 petrol OP.
This engine is problematic and poor on fuel, for what is fairly mediocre performance.
If you go for a 320d go auto
If you go for a petrol 325/330 manual preferably, but the auto works well.
As others mentioned, test drive them to see which suits you best. The petrol six cylinders will be far more pleasant to drive and return 30mpg relatively easily.
This engine is problematic and poor on fuel, for what is fairly mediocre performance.
If you go for a 320d go auto
If you go for a petrol 325/330 manual preferably, but the auto works well.
As others mentioned, test drive them to see which suits you best. The petrol six cylinders will be far more pleasant to drive and return 30mpg relatively easily.
Not quite the same, admittedly, but I recently purchased an e46 330i Touring as a cheap estate for the family and dog and regret the engine choice to an extent. It isn't remotely fast, nor is it remotely economical. I find myself wishing I'd gone for a 320d, as at least that would have done something well.
The 3 series is a car with a very broad appeal, so don't be misled by the percentage of buyers opting for auto - buy whichever box you prefer for the type of driving you do. Personally, I'm like you and this will always mean a manual box for me (yes, I've tried both).
Regarding the engine size, I've personally always preferred the BMW straight sixes to the fours and think they're worth the money, but again it's very individual and if you save money that can be spent on another aspect of the car or something else entirely, then that may mean more to you.
Regarding the engine size, I've personally always preferred the BMW straight sixes to the fours and think they're worth the money, but again it's very individual and if you save money that can be spent on another aspect of the car or something else entirely, then that may mean more to you.
I will try to find a good 325 or 330.
Maybe I will even look at cars before the facelift... I have some prejudice towards diesel engines. I know that diesel are more popular with BMWs but I don't do that many miles every year and fuel economy doesn't really interests me as I believe the fuel economy between a 325d and 325i will be negligible (7-8k miles a year).
Maybe I will even look at cars before the facelift... I have some prejudice towards diesel engines. I know that diesel are more popular with BMWs but I don't do that many miles every year and fuel economy doesn't really interests me as I believe the fuel economy between a 325d and 325i will be negligible (7-8k miles a year).
I have a 2008 manual 218bhp 325i SE. I've had it a year and it is a lovely engine but it is too old to qualify for my company car scheme so has to go. The high pressure fuel pump is a weak point (which hit me mid year!) but apart from that they're pretty solid I believe. I got a manual because I don't enjoy driving older autos.
I'd agree with avoiding the 320i. Probably enough poke but not enough for some fun!
I'd agree with avoiding the 320i. Probably enough poke but not enough for some fun!
sorin1987 said:
some sort of pedals on the steering wheel to be able to change gears if you want to...but they don't look like the regular flappy pedal type).
Paddles. Anyway, the reason they do not like normal paddles is because they don't work like normal paddles either on the pre-facelift cars. The pre-facelift paddles are push to down shift and pull to shift up (i think that is the right way round) and it doesn't matter which paddle of the 2 that you do that with they both have the same function. A conventional setup usually has one paddle for downshifting and one for changing up. BMW realised this which is why the facelift cars (2010 onwards I believe) have normal paddles.It has put me off buying pre-facelift cars personally.
M sport is suspension, seats and otherwise cosmetic. If it were me I would go 325i all day long (because I own an E46 325i). Auto if I wanted to waft and/or did a lot of town driving, but the manual is best to take full advantage of my favourite engine layout. However, if it was a 320d you'd like Auto all the way. The torque converter helps masks some of the inherent roughness of the diesel engine.
I drove a 320i in South Africa as a hire car when at the time owning a 320d. The i felt like there was something wrong with it. No go, no torque and it didnt even sound nice.
I'd take a 320d over an i, so 325i def, and 330i if you can stretch to it. My 33oi is presently returning mid 30's to the gallon which I think is amazing.
I'd take a 320d over an i, so 325i def, and 330i if you can stretch to it. My 33oi is presently returning mid 30's to the gallon which I think is amazing.
If you can live with cloth, this has sports seats, low mileage and you get BMW warranty.
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2016...
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2016...
sorin1987 said:
How about the M Sport model? It looks a little better than the others but is it better in terms of performance, feel (I'm thinking different suspension and brakes?) or is just looks?
M Sport is a suspension package available from new that gives lower suspension and different spring and damper rates to give a more sporty bias to the ride and handling trade off. M Sport also has some styling tweaks, different steering wheel etc. You'll see a lot of people on PH bemoaning it, but that's just ignorance and/or their image centered way of thinking. For someone like you, it's well worth trying.edo said:
Ref auto or manual; if it is a weekend car then manual I guess would be fine. The sixes work well with the auto.
I just dropped runflats from my 330i auto and the transformation in ride was extreme (positive).
10k is plenty for a 330i or 325i.
I've had my 330i auto for nearly three years and I really wanted a manual but couldn't find one in the spec/colour I wanted, I'm still looking but they never come up. I just dropped runflats from my 330i auto and the transformation in ride was extreme (positive).
10k is plenty for a 330i or 325i.
Regards the auto I don't think it really suits the engine, it's not a bad gearbox but for me it doesn't suit the characteristics of the engine at all.
In saying that though BMW's manual gearboxes are poor and I didn't rate the manual gearbox in my Z4M/E92 M3 so in some ways I can see why the auto is so popular.
cerb4.5lee said:
edo said:
Ref auto or manual; if it is a weekend car then manual I guess would be fine. The sixes work well with the auto.
I just dropped runflats from my 330i auto and the transformation in ride was extreme (positive).
10k is plenty for a 330i or 325i.
I've had my 330i auto for nearly three years and I really wanted a manual but couldn't find one in the spec/colour I wanted, I'm still looking but they never come up. I just dropped runflats from my 330i auto and the transformation in ride was extreme (positive).
10k is plenty for a 330i or 325i.
Regards the auto I don't think it really suits the engine, it's not a bad gearbox but for me it doesn't suit the characteristics of the engine at all.
In saying that though BMW's manual gearboxes are poor and I didn't rate the manual gearbox in my Z4M/E92 M3 so in some ways I can see why the auto is so popular.
BMW gearboxes are certainly not a patch on a manufacturer like Honda. Mind you, I think one of the main issues with BMWs and manual gearboxes is actually the whole drivetrain and its "user interface", which BMW have struggled to get right for a decade and a half. With an E46 manual onwards you get a drive by wire throttle lag and a clutch delay valve, so gearchange and pulling away from rest timing can be extremely difficult. If the driver in question never had any clutch control to start with, then the CDV and DBW improve matters because they engage the drive gradually (presumably why they exist). However, if you are a driver of average or better ability trying to change gear smoothly, they're just awful and you end up fighting the thing and lurching between gearchanges. This is especially true when pulling away from rest. The E46 was the peak of the problem, and all these issues got significantly better for the E90 onwards. My E46 330ci lasted three months in my ownership and it was a hideous thing to drive, but I love my E90 320d and the aforementioned problems are something that you're aware of, but they're not show stoppers. I notice if I switch from my E90 to another car and back again, but I normally adapt within a few hours of driving. The auto is an instant solution to this problem (a good friend of mine and PHer has one - an E46 330ci auto), but to be honest I don't think much of BMW autos either - I had one in an X3 3.0i courtesy car whilst my E46 was being fixed, and if you accelerated hard it would take about 4 or 5 seconds to respond (1 second for the DBW, and the other 3 for a weird revving thing it did before engaging the drive). The new ZF box in the F11/F30 series onwards is superb though and finally solves the issue. I still prefer a manual though...Incidentally, iirc this is why Jackie Stewart parted company with Ford after decades of helping them develop their cars. According to Jackie's biography, he asked the CEO to pull away from rest smoothly in one of their SUVs and come to a halt again (grabby served brakes as well as the drivetrain issues!). The poor guy couldn't after several attempts, so Jackie got out, shut the door, and left there and then.
Definitely look at a 6 pot over the 4 cylinder. I have a 335i and the smooth delivery, noise and power are very nice.
If you want lots of power then it has to be a 330i or a 335i, bit if you want enough power, smooth delivery and a nice noise then a 325i should do the job nicely.
M Sport is great as the seats are a vast improvement (inflatable side bolsters). Suspension is firm but not as bad as you might think, still far better than a hot hatch for comfort. I haven't driven an SE so can't really comment on handling. Looks wise it is subjective. I quite like the understated looks of the SE, but prefer the M Sport overall. No silly badging helps as well.
I went manual and it took me ages to find one. I like it, but the clutch and box are heavier to use than most other cars and so I understand why many prefer the auto. I also found it tricky to get the hang of the box due to the clutch delay valve (I guess). I would pick manual again.
I can't think of much reason to go 320i, it should be OK if pushed hard but that can't be good all the time.
If you want lots of power then it has to be a 330i or a 335i, bit if you want enough power, smooth delivery and a nice noise then a 325i should do the job nicely.
M Sport is great as the seats are a vast improvement (inflatable side bolsters). Suspension is firm but not as bad as you might think, still far better than a hot hatch for comfort. I haven't driven an SE so can't really comment on handling. Looks wise it is subjective. I quite like the understated looks of the SE, but prefer the M Sport overall. No silly badging helps as well.
I went manual and it took me ages to find one. I like it, but the clutch and box are heavier to use than most other cars and so I understand why many prefer the auto. I also found it tricky to get the hang of the box due to the clutch delay valve (I guess). I would pick manual again.
I can't think of much reason to go 320i, it should be OK if pushed hard but that can't be good all the time.
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