Alfa's as a occasional trackday car
Discussion
Of the two you mention, I would go for the Mito, it would cost a lot less in fuel, tyres etc and wold probably be quicker, the 170 Multiair is a great engine.
If you like fwd and fancy an older car then I would be looking at a later "wide body" 155 or a 156, the 155 in particular handles superbly and is a lot of fun on a track, I thoroughly enjoyed driving mine round Knockhill.
If you like fwd and fancy an older car then I would be looking at a later "wide body" 155 or a 156, the 155 in particular handles superbly and is a lot of fun on a track, I thoroughly enjoyed driving mine round Knockhill.
Of those two id get the Mito, the QV comes with adaptive suspension, and the Brera (especially the earlier models) are quite lardy, for track use on a brera id want at least a Q4 model and some form of forced induction.
Alternatively, perhaps get a daily driver and an older alfa for track use? Either something properly old with RWD, or a cheap 147 2.0 to strip out?
Alternatively, perhaps get a daily driver and an older alfa for track use? Either something properly old with RWD, or a cheap 147 2.0 to strip out?
Vitorio said:
Of those two id get the Mito, the QV comes with adaptive suspension, and the Brera (especially the earlier models) are quite lardy, for track use on a brera id want at least a Q4 model and some form of forced induction.
Alternatively, perhaps get a daily driver and an older alfa for track use? Either something properly old with RWD, or a cheap 147 2.0 to strip out?
This isn't a daily driver , it's a fun car , so I'm drawn to the Brera as it's good looking And have a v6!!!!Alternatively, perhaps get a daily driver and an older alfa for track use? Either something properly old with RWD, or a cheap 147 2.0 to strip out?
cejsmith said:
This isn't a daily driver , it's a fun car , so I'm drawn to the Brera as it's good looking And have a v6!!!!
In that case id suggest going for something with a good handling platform and good mods/tuning knowledge. Id think a 147, GT or 156 would be a more obvious choice for a track car, cheaper spares and a better handling base platform.With some fettling a 2.0 twinspark gets above 170hp, and it wont be as heavy on the nose as a V6, strip the rest out and youve got a fun little car.
cejsmith said:
This isn't a daily driver , it's a fun car , so I'm drawn to the Brera as it's good looking And have a v6!!!!
I quite like the Brera, for what it is, but I can think of few cars less well-suited to trackdays, even fewer Alfa Romeos.Seriously, I'd listen to velocemitch on this...
velocemitch said:
Why not look a bit further back, 75, Alfetta GTV, or perhaps a 105, coupes are expensive, but the saloons are also pretty good and cheaper.
As a track car I reckon they would be more satisfying, easier to modify and will rise in value, not fall.
An Alfetta GTV6 is more distinctive, has a much better engine, is an incomparably better drive.As a track car I reckon they would be more satisfying, easier to modify and will rise in value, not fall.
Honestly, I think if you haven't had an Alfa Romeo and you buy one of those two as a "fun" car or a "trackday" car then you will be missing the best that Alfa has to offer, by a mile.
Not that they are 'bad' cars (although the MiTo is close) but neither of them is close to Alfa Romeo at their best.
A 75, a 116, a 105, even a 916 has more of what Alfa is all about.
jamies30 said:
An Alfetta GTV6 is more distinctive, has a much better engine, is an incomparably better drive.
Honestly, I think if you haven't had an Alfa Romeo and you buy one of those two as a "fun" car or a "trackday" car then you will be missing the best that Alfa has to offer, by a mile.
Not that they are 'bad' cars (although the MiTo is close) but neither of them is close to Alfa Romeo at their best.
A 75, a 116, a 105, even a 916 has more of what Alfa is all about.
All true but realistically, the transaxle cars cost more to run....that is if you can find a decent one for reasonable money, gone up quite a bit in the last 2 years or so. bang for buck, I would head for a 155, prices are as low as they are going to go and a decent one need not break the bank. Honestly, I think if you haven't had an Alfa Romeo and you buy one of those two as a "fun" car or a "trackday" car then you will be missing the best that Alfa has to offer, by a mile.
Not that they are 'bad' cars (although the MiTo is close) but neither of them is close to Alfa Romeo at their best.
A 75, a 116, a 105, even a 916 has more of what Alfa is all about.
PS I have a few GTV6s, 75s, 155s, 105s, etc scattered about. of the oder alfas, the 105s are probably the cheapest to run maintenance-wise.
145 QV is another possibility, but getting rare these days.
Slight problem I have with the more 'modern' Alfas ie 155 onwards, is that as a track car they are probably outclassed by other more frequently used cars from the same era, 205's 306's, Clio's etc etc. Go further back in time and that changes, 75's 116'.s 115, 105, even 101 were all pretty much a match for their peers and still today make excellent cars for a driver wanting something a little different.
Slight problem I have with the more 'modern' Alfas ie 155 onwards, is that as a track car they are probably outclassed by other more frequently used cars from the same era, 205's 306's, Clio's etc etc. Go further back in time and that changes, 75's 116'.s 115, 105, even 101 were all pretty much a match for their peers and still today make excellent cars for a driver wanting something a little different.
Actually and to add... I did a couple of track days with Alfa a few years back, Oulton Park and Croft, this was just after the Brera came out. We had 159's, Brera, Brera spider, GT and 147 to choose from. The 147 was far and away the best of the bunch to chuck around a track. Worst was the Spiders and the Brera.
The racing driver was doing the fast laps in the 147, it was a JTDm q2.
.
The racing driver was doing the fast laps in the 147, it was a JTDm q2.
.
velocemitch said:
145 QV is another possibility, but getting rare these days.
Slight problem I have with the more 'modern' Alfas ie 155 onwards, is that as a track car they are probably outclassed by other more frequently used cars from the same era, 205's 306's, Clio's etc etc. Go further back in time and that changes, 75's 116'.s 115, 105, even 101 were all pretty much a match for their peers and still today make excellent cars for a driver wanting something a little different.
145 1.8s shouldnt command the price premium of the QV and still be plenty quick, i also think the 1.8 should be a slightly rev-happier engine then the 2.0Slight problem I have with the more 'modern' Alfas ie 155 onwards, is that as a track car they are probably outclassed by other more frequently used cars from the same era, 205's 306's, Clio's etc etc. Go further back in time and that changes, 75's 116'.s 115, 105, even 101 were all pretty much a match for their peers and still today make excellent cars for a driver wanting something a little different.
velocemitch said:
Actually and to add... I did a couple of track days with Alfa a few years back, Oulton Park and Croft, this was just after the Brera came out. We had 159's, Brera, Brera spider, GT and 147 to choose from. The 147 was far and away the best of the bunch to chuck around a track. Worst was the Spiders and the Brera.
The racing driver was doing the fast laps in the 147, it was a JTDm q2.
.
I was about to ask if the 147 was indeed better then the GT (as id expect the GT to be better still), but yeah, a Q2 diff and 150+ horsepower should be brilliant.The racing driver was doing the fast laps in the 147, it was a JTDm q2.
.
Love my 147 as well, just cant quite bring myself to modify it too much as i fear itll make it worse for stuff like daily driving, and its not a race monster to begin with.
I have a 2005 156 1.9 JTDM150 Remapped to about 190BHP. It is my daily driver, I get about 42mpg all the time, and I have done a couple of Croft track days in it. The 147 and 156 are the same underneath, and it has been said that the 156 handles better than the 147 as well.
I previously had a 2000 1.8TS 156 which I should never have sold (!) but never tracked that one. (In retrospect it would have been great to take around Croft ! )
If I was looking for a track car, I would seriously consider a 156 2.5 V6... apparently if you strip out all the interior ( sad thing to do on an Alfa !) and get the suspension rebuilt with the appropriate springs/dampers, they can be awesome and sound wonderful.
The standard 156 handles really well if set up correctly ( 4 wheel alignment is essential )
I previously had a 2000 1.8TS 156 which I should never have sold (!) but never tracked that one. (In retrospect it would have been great to take around Croft ! )
If I was looking for a track car, I would seriously consider a 156 2.5 V6... apparently if you strip out all the interior ( sad thing to do on an Alfa !) and get the suspension rebuilt with the appropriate springs/dampers, they can be awesome and sound wonderful.
The standard 156 handles really well if set up correctly ( 4 wheel alignment is essential )
Id recommend a 147/156/GT for trackday use, I have a 2.0 156, 2.5 v6 156 and 159.
Ive done a few track days in the V6, its a great car to track, responsive, very fast down the straights, sounds amazing, reliable (as long as youve changed the standard diff). The handling of the V6 can be a bit imbalanced in the wet (unfortunately mine now has side damage from a crash), but the main drawback is its thirst. My 2.0 twinny handles a little better, is much more predictable, on par with a Clio 172, they can take more speeds into the corners but the twinnys engines cant take the punishment, where the V6 will happily rev up to the line all day long.
Based on 159 I dont think the Brera would be enjoyabloe, a Mito would be a lot better, Ive done a track day with a Giulietta and that was very quick allrounder sort of car.
Ive done a few track days in the V6, its a great car to track, responsive, very fast down the straights, sounds amazing, reliable (as long as youve changed the standard diff). The handling of the V6 can be a bit imbalanced in the wet (unfortunately mine now has side damage from a crash), but the main drawback is its thirst. My 2.0 twinny handles a little better, is much more predictable, on par with a Clio 172, they can take more speeds into the corners but the twinnys engines cant take the punishment, where the V6 will happily rev up to the line all day long.
Based on 159 I dont think the Brera would be enjoyabloe, a Mito would be a lot better, Ive done a track day with a Giulietta and that was very quick allrounder sort of car.
Edited by davebem on Friday 23 December 17:17
davebem said:
Id recommend a 147/156/GT for trackday use, I have a 2.0 156, 2.5 v6 156 and 159.
Ive done a few track days in the V6, its a great car to track, responsive, very fast down the straights, sounds amazing, reliable (as long as youve changed the standard diff). The handling of the V6 can be a bit imbalanced in the wet (unfortunately mine now has side damage from a crash), but the main drawback is its thirst. My 2.0 twinny handles a little better, is much more predictable, on par with a Clio 172, they can take more speeds into the corners but the twinnys engines cant take the punishment, where the V6 will happily rev up to the line all day long.
Based on 159 I dont think the Brera would be enjoyabloe, a Mito would be a lot better, Ive done a track day with a Giulietta and that was very quick allrounder sort of car.
Twinnes can and will stand up to track punishment, but they need proper prep/care, you cant expect a 15 year old twinspark straight from gumtree to be happy with track abuse.Ive done a few track days in the V6, its a great car to track, responsive, very fast down the straights, sounds amazing, reliable (as long as youve changed the standard diff). The handling of the V6 can be a bit imbalanced in the wet (unfortunately mine now has side damage from a crash), but the main drawback is its thirst. My 2.0 twinny handles a little better, is much more predictable, on par with a Clio 172, they can take more speeds into the corners but the twinnys engines cant take the punishment, where the V6 will happily rev up to the line all day long.
Based on 159 I dont think the Brera would be enjoyabloe, a Mito would be a lot better, Ive done a track day with a Giulietta and that was very quick allrounder sort of car.
Edited by davebem on Friday 23 December 17:17
Might also consider 10w60 instead of the standard 10w40 for a tracked twinnie, most old twinnies use oil with 10w40, and will use more with vigorous driving, and low oil leads to lunched bearings.
Most 156s people have driven are utterly knackered, so everyone thinks they are a bit rubbish in the handling department. They weren't set up well from the factory either, most of them seem to have "bouncy castle" suspension.
With Eibach -30 lowering springs, a set of decent ARBs, B6s all round and a quaife diff, they are completely transformed.
With Eibach -30 lowering springs, a set of decent ARBs, B6s all round and a quaife diff, they are completely transformed.
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