Talk to me about ('90s) Alfa GTVs

Talk to me about ('90s) Alfa GTVs

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Chris71

Original Poster:

21,535 posts

241 months

Tuesday 17th January 2017
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This is largely window shopping at the moment, but I'm tempted by an Alfa GTV (probably a V6) for my next daily driver.

Most of my driving is motorway trips. So while I would like a car that's capable of hitching its skirt up on the occasional B-road, the main priority is something that can bring some sense of occasion to the M25 on a wet Monday morning. Not an easy task.

I was wondering what the long distance comfort is like? Some people seem to grumble about the seats on previous threads, but I wasn't sure if that was comfort or just lateral support. Likewise, how do you find the running costs?

I'm looking at something like a 350Z or RX-8 as an alternative, so I'd be particuarly interested to hear from anyone who's swapped one of those for a GTV (or indeed vice versa!)

sunbeam alpine

6,936 posts

187 months

Tuesday 17th January 2017
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I have the 2.0 V6 TB (have a few other Alfas as well). It's very comfortable over long distances - I'm 6'4" with back problems - and I can drive it all day.

I reckon they have to be at the bottom of the depreciation curve, and maybe even starting to climb in price.

The only negative is that the amount of boot space is really tiny, and the back seats aren't really any use even for small children.

Chris71

Original Poster:

21,535 posts

241 months

Wednesday 18th January 2017
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sunbeam alpine said:
The only negative is that the amount of boot space is really tiny, and the back seats aren't really any use even for small children.
I'm coming from an MX-5, so I would imagine the boot is a step up.

Plus I've got a Chimaera in the garage if I need anything with an unfeasibly large boot. biggrin

Any idea know if you can get a baby seat in a GTV? I assume they pre-date ISOFIX.

Is the 6-speed worth going for if you're going to do a lot of motorway miles?

ETA Just realised the significance of the 2.0 TV V6. Quite a rarity, I'm guessing?


Edited by Chris71 on Wednesday 18th January 10:22

V6todayEVmanana

759 posts

143 months

Thursday 19th January 2017
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Hi

I've commuted a good 7/8 years (70k miles) mostly up the M23 and along the M25 so can give you my opinion.

The V6 is a nice engine for the motorway, when traffic is busy it can pick up well in all but the 6th gear so reduces changing when feeling lazy.

Entering off a slip road or overtaking has a satisfying sound/feel and makes life easier than a lower powered car.

Whilst the engine noise is always a delight and not too noisy cruising, I did after about 6 years find the M25 sections annoying due to tyre noise. But probably as I started playing audio books instead of music. Hence the extra noise interfered.

MPG wise, I get about 30mpg using 6th to cruise at common motorway speed and fun entrances from slip roads or the 10mins of country roads to the motorway.

Rain can be annoying in the dark as coupled with the weak normal headlights make visibility below newer hatch-backs for example. Full beams are good for country roads.

Space wise, I removed the spare tyre and find the boot great for grocery shopping and had people/luggage in the back seats when needed. More practical than a 350Z in that respect.

The 350Z would be a nice car for the same journey, feels more stable but doesn't scream as nice. Cool burble when at low speeds I think.

GTV been reliable, never left me stranded. Always an indication when things are going wrong. Keep it serviced. I put aside 1k a year for maintenance, some years it carries over. Did get the clutch changed and fitted a Q2 when it was at 80k (now 144k). That's the biggest bill.

Suspension arms do go due to the weight. ( I do track days too).

I could go on, should update my Readers thread.

Gtv 3.0, 350Z and RX8 are all great cars in their own ways. I've got a second car now but can't bring myself to sell the GTV






awooga

358 posts

133 months

Thursday 19th January 2017
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I had a 916 spider for 6 years, but also used a GTV here and there over the same period. The boot is pretty tiny, but if you take the spare wheel out and chuck a can of tyre weld in, it does become usable.

The seats are comfortable enough (momo leather presumably), for long journeys but the seat base doesn't hold your arse in place enough (unless you're american) if you're hooning round corners. Yes, you could get a child seat in place in the back, but the front seat doesn't bend forward particularly far so it would be a massive PITA to put kid in / get kid out, especially if it's raining.

If you're driving round the M25, there's no need to focus purely on the V6. The twinny will get consistantly 30mpg and still has a reasonable performance for what you're after - and they're a lot more plentiful and cheaper. There are buyers guide for both versions on the net - basically it's check the electrical stuff and look for suspension knocks and vagueness in the steering. Both engines are pretty solid. I owned my twinny for 6 years, during which time it ate up a few cheap-ish front suspension bits, brakes and other consumables and needed a replacement crank sensor. It was far more reliable than any of my mates would have me believe and certainly massively better than anybody I knew with a similar era french car.

The prices are rock bottom. I've tried a few times to get a hold of a cheap V6 GTV for playing on Scottish roads but do need to work the man maths to justify car no 4#

Chris71

Original Poster:

21,535 posts

241 months

Friday 20th January 2017
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awooga said:
If you're driving round the M25, there's no need to focus purely on the V6. The twinny will get consistantly 30mpg and still has a reasonable performance for what you're after - and they're a lot more plentiful and cheaper.
True. And I've heard a lot of people say the four-cylinder is better balanced.

But I want the noise. I know that's shallow, but I'd argue it's when you're just cruising around that you need that added theatre. To be fair, I've not driven a Twin Spark for comparison and I'd certainly have a look if there was one for sale locally when I come to buy.


waynedear

2,157 posts

166 months

Friday 20th January 2017
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First V6 GTV I bought was from a gent that had got himself a 350z instead, he said to drive and use the 350 was miles better but was 'clinical' and didn't turn as many heads.

woody166

251 posts

107 months

Sunday 22nd January 2017
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I've run a 3.2 Ph3 for 5 years now. I wouldn't use it as a daily. To heavy on the fuel, awful turning circle and very awkward in car parks. As a weekend runabout though, it's great. V6 unit is pretty reliable with only an £800 timing belt change every 4 years to plan for. Most electrical issues will come up with worrying codes on the diag but will often simply be poor connectors needing a clean with contact cleaner. Not too bad with Rust. Build quality is a bit creaky!

Loads of very knowledgeable Alfa specialists that will allow you to maintain it on a budget.

The twinny is also good fun and a more sensible choice for daily use. I think the later 2.0 JTS units had some issues but there will likely be some fixes out there by now.

V6todayEVmanana

759 posts

143 months

Monday 23rd January 2017
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Used the GTV for my 50 mile outward commute today.

Had to de-ice the door as the button was frozen but Love the fact that no matter the weather it always roars to life with the first key turn even when left sitting for a month.

Takes a bit longer than the 1.4 MA to warm up inside and leather wheel was very cold but within about 5 mins of driving I was nice and warm.

The engine was silky smooth and enjoyed the country roads towards the motorway. The 1.4MA is fast but doesn't have the v6 feel.

Rest of the 40 odd miles was motorway, which it handles well, bit of traffic so radio on and tyre noise not noticed. The v6 had a few chances to roar.

Fuel wise, do the math, if not start and stop then the v6 can be good with fuel. Maybe 12MPG down on the 1.4 with similar speeds. If doing say 22k miles a year maybe the fuel is an extra grand?



Chris71

Original Poster:

21,535 posts

241 months

Monday 23rd January 2017
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woody166 said:
I've run a 3.2 Ph3 for 5 years now. I wouldn't use it as a daily. To heavy on the fuel, awful turning circle and very awkward in car parks. As a weekend runabout though, it's great. V6 unit is pretty reliable with only an £800 timing belt change every 4 years to plan for. Most electrical issues will come up with worrying codes on the diag but will often simply be poor connectors needing a clean with contact cleaner. Not too bad with Rust. Build quality is a bit creaky!

Loads of very knowledgeable Alfa specialists that will allow you to maintain it on a budget.

The twinny is also good fun and a more sensible choice for daily use. I think the later 2.0 JTS units had some issues but there will likely be some fixes out there by now.
I'm in the fortune position that I work from home. I don't do a huge total mileage, and most of what I do is on the motorway and/or tax-deductable. So from what I gather, a GTV V6 wouldn't be hugely different to the 350Z and probably a useful improvement over the RX-8 (which are the other two contenders)?

Certainly wouldn't rule out a Twin Spark, but I get the impression the V6 plays to the GTV's strengths. It always seems to be described as more of a feel-good GT than a B-road blaster, so I don't know if the benefits in fuel economy and weight distribution would be enough to tip the balance. Surely a lightweight hot hatch is the way to go if those are important? That's not a criticism of the Alfa, I hasten to add. I had a Clio 172 Cup that would do a genuine 40 mpg on the motorway or leave most things standing on a B-road, but it didn't stir the soul in quite the same way that a red Alfa with half a V12 can do. smile

Highway Star

3,573 posts

230 months

Monday 23rd January 2017
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Chris71 said:
Any idea know if you can get a baby seat in a GTV? I assume they pre-date ISOFIX.

Edited by Chris71 on Wednesday 18th January 10:22
Yes - one of my best mates has had his daughter in the back of his GTVV6 since birth (now two) - mainly because he doesn't want to take her in his 355.

woody166

251 posts

107 months

Tuesday 24th January 2017
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Chris71 said:
I'm in the fortune position that I work from home. I don't do a huge total mileage, and most of what I do is on the motorway and/or tax-deductable. So from what I gather, a GTV V6 wouldn't be hugely different to the 350Z and probably a useful improvement over the RX-8 (which are the other two contenders)?

Certainly wouldn't rule out a Twin Spark, but I get the impression the V6 plays to the GTV's strengths. It always seems to be described as more of a feel-good GT than a B-road blaster, so I don't know if the benefits in fuel economy and weight distribution would be enough to tip the balance. Surely a lightweight hot hatch is the way to go if those are important? That's not a criticism of the Alfa, I hasten to add. I had a Clio 172 Cup that would do a genuine 40 mpg on the motorway or leave most things standing on a B-road, but it didn't stir the soul in quite the same way that a red Alfa with half a V12 can do. smile
It's definitely more of a GT although it's handling was good in it's day.. The V6 lump makes it quite heavy up front and will have a tendency to understeer. Saying that, a large number on sale now will have had a Q2 Lsd diff upgrade and aftermarket shocks and bushes, all of which improve the handling quite significantly. In a straight line it's still pretty quick, even for 2017. The 0-60 time always undersold it, as traction was the limiting factor.

ST270

663 posts

181 months

Friday 27th January 2017
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Bought my V6 in July last year, weekend car only but i do use it for work commute when i fancy - always more fun! Engine is a gem and the large displacement in a small car makes stop start easy enough. Mine has a Alfaholics exhaust and equal length downpipes so it is bassy and raspy on full chat. I expect it would get a bit tiresome on a very long motorway journey but at all other times it is a pleasure and negates the radio everytime!

Q2 LSD makes a big difference and negates the extra weight of the V6 to some degree, koni adjustable dampers and standard springs have a good review bias - mine has these however i have no other basis for comparison - all i can say is that it smooth on pretty much any surface.

Interior wise - Italian driving position - long arms short legs or vice versa, seats are comfy but not too supportive (but for day to day use perfectly adequate) low roofline can make seeing traffic lights tricky if you are at fron of the queue - (just look out side window) Air con / climate works well when gassed up. Heated rear window have issues due to the route of the wiring so can fail but there is a fix on alfaowner.com

I had an early S2000 prior to the Alfa and whilst the honda was lots of fun and likley quicker when driven hard - the Alfa has a more relaxed performance approach with the big engine, more steering feel and being fwd a touch more confidence when pushing on in less than dry conditions!

V6 is an occasion and if i had gone for the TS i would have been disappointed i didn't go for a V6

paulmakin

653 posts

140 months

Friday 27th January 2017
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here's my thoughts after a couple of decades of GTV and V6 ownership(s). it's a long and scary list but i still have a V6 which i'm happy to use daily (when needs must) and i'd happily pick up a TS if i had anywhere to put it.

from the rear then !

that boot. words cannot really describe the small-ness. it's not exactly "overnight bag" but it's close
battery lives in there as well - that's a back wrenching stretch for some

rear bushes, suspension geometry etc are critical for handling. there's a sort of passive rear steer and if anything's off you'll experience the "lurching round corners in a series of short, straight lines". odd at first but you get used to it and eventually get to quite enjoy it.

rear spring pans corrode, specialists offer complete, uprated units

why does the exhaust have that detour to the n/s sill ? i'd have said that would be a perfect side-exit but Alfa prefer to route it 180 and out the back

rear seats? yep, got some. what you can use them for is debatable although i find that the individual buckets are good for keeping a small bag of shopping in it's place more than adequately. children will probably fit in them but they won't see out (high swage/waist line) and may become travel sick

rear 3/4 visibility?. nope. the window looks a lot bigger on the outside and, personally, it may just as well not be there.

nothing much happens now until you reach the door area. door seals will get wind-noisy. usually at just the speed you like to cruise at. frameless windows may or may not continue to align with the aperture. resetting the glass is much more an art than a science. Alfa specify around 6 separate measurements that must be set simultaneously for it all to fit properly. auto-drop can be fun as well.

door locks icing as previously mentioned

floppy interior door handle? locking pin of the back of the unit has snapped. it'll warn you about this before it finally lets go by ensuring that the handle adopts a strange angle when it returns to rest. "Odd" you'll thin as you pull the lever to exit the vehicle only it doesn't release the catch so you pull a little more and "whoa, why's this gone all floppy?"

that funny little dent (or hole) on the trailing edge of the door card is from where you (will) trap the belt buckle between the seat and the door as you close it.

seat trim seems to be quite hard wearing but getting old now

driving position isn't for everyone. my body has reshaped itself to suit

instrumentation is nice to look at. beware "beach-ball boy". generally speaking, if doing anything involving moving a seat make sure the battery is off and the keys are in the next county before starting the task.

the alarm/security is aged now and can behave abnormally. quite how abnormally will vary from car to car. "code" systems can be bypassed so it doesn't have to be a non-start for long !

in sunny conditions with the visors down you will now get the comedy "peeping through a letter box" forward view, only you can see less than when peeping through a letter box. this can be made much more entertaining when the cabin fan blower resistor has also failed and the screen is already misted.

wipers didn't transfer to RHD too well. some cars have an amusing 3/4 wipe before parking when switched off. only it's the wrong way round so you get a vertical streak of water or dirt right in front of the driver. they don't all do this but certainly many will

struggling to get gears? don't worry, they are all still in there. often removing the end plate and clearing out the swarf (yep, swarf) will restore them all

V6 generally more robust than TS although they all seem to rattle a bit at idle. i'm sure the belts thing on TSs has been covered although i regularly play "belts roulette" with alfas and not had a failure yet (and i'm not that lucky). if it does let go, a bottom end failure tends to follow shortly after you've fixed the top end. seems to come out in sympathy, probably the shock to the system

Twinnies use oil, some more than others. the manual tells you this but some owners do insist on leaving things to chance (or "the service interval" as they optimistically refer to it as)

various sensors stop sensing but it'll keep going usually

front lower arms were specified in chocolate from day one. later models wrap the chocolate in tin foil but should still be treated as service items

that clamshell is heavy despite being composite. you'll find out just how heavy when a hinge seizes and then snaps as you raise it. this leaves you holding onto an alfa badged wind-surfing sail that needs wrestling back into place

they are good though !!

paul

Edited by paulmakin on Friday 27th January 21:19


Edited by paulmakin on Friday 27th January 21:20

Chris71

Original Poster:

21,535 posts

241 months

Wednesday 1st February 2017
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paulmakin said:
Loads of good stuff
Thanks Paul. Quite a sobering list, but I guess an Alfa is always going to be a heart (rather than head) purchase!

amancalledrob

1,248 posts

133 months

Wednesday 1st February 2017
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Definitely go for the V6, and definitely the six speed. I've had both five and six speed gearboxes and the five speed is less responsive.

Excellent post above re pitfalls of ownership - the floppy doorpull can actually be fixed very well with the spring from a clothes peg (I've done this). Thermostats go but they're a 15 minute job and you don't even need to drain the coolant, you'll lose a bit when you remove the old one but you can just top it up afterwards, very little risk of airlocking.

You will find yourself driving with the windows down a lot

Also if it hasn't already been done, delete the centre silencer at least. You may want to go further but it's a good start. Enjoy smile

paulmakin

653 posts

140 months

Thursday 2nd February 2017
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oh, nearly forgot (and this one is potentially serious, everything else is niggly) - rear window demist. relay timer can fail leaving power to the elements ignition live. the cables run from the fusebox through the entire car and will get hot if not timed out. it's a heavy current protected by a 30A fuse from the factory and current = more heat. in a confined space.

plastic melts, fusebox ignites, car is killed with fire.

many simple and cheap fixes available. the best is probably to add a power relay for the element somewhere in the boot and replace the cabling from the fusebox. there are a number of illustrated write-ups on this involving some "proper" explanations of the electrical work involved. or "voodoo" as I call it; wiring is just a rat's nest to me.

it's one of the first things I check and continue to monitor on my own car.

paul

Chris71

Original Poster:

21,535 posts

241 months

Thursday 2nd February 2017
quotequote all
What do people reckon is the going rate for a GTV V6 currently? They seem to vary hugely from what I can see.

If I do take the plunge I will be looking for something mechanically good, but not a show car that will halve in value the moment I leave it parked out overnight.

ST270

663 posts

181 months

Thursday 2nd February 2017
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Chris71 said:
What do people reckon is the going rate for a GTV V6 currently? They seem to vary hugely from what I can see.

If I do take the plunge I will be looking for something mechanically good, but not a show car that will halve in value the moment I leave it parked out overnight.
Happy to tell you about my buying experience from last year.... Car was on autotrader and on P'Heads, arranged to see it and it was the first one i saw. I had never driven a V6 before - however a friend has a T.S Spider years ago which i used a lot so i had a vague idea on responsiveness etc. As most will say don't buy the first one you see but I did.

Previous owner was an Alfa man through and through and he had attended to the car very well - It is a 2002 model 6 speed, with 75k documented miles.

I did fall very lucky with it however as it had many upgrades and stacks of history, previous owner had equipped it with (GTA cams, GTA flywheel & clutch & GTA brake conversion, Q2 Diff, Alfaholics ss exhaust with equal length front pipes) The Air con compressor needed refitting (was supplied with the car) and the heated rear window doesn't work (as explained in the post prior) Nothing else needed doing.

When i set out to find a GTV i didn't even consider all these added goodies at all - i just wanted a V6 GTV

It was advertised @ £6k originally, then he bought a 156 GTA and needed the space so reduced it to £5.5k, i was the first one to see it and had traveled quite a distance - bought it for just over £4.4k

It isn't a show car, but it wouldn't take much tidying to make it so - body work is blemish free, Teledials are mark free & the engine cam covers are powder coated in red with chrome intake pipes polished.

I am sure most will agree with the idea of buying the best that you can afford and if it has been cared for and had money spent on it then this is hopefully money that you don't have to!

ST270

663 posts

181 months

Thursday 2nd February 2017
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Chris71 said:
What do people reckon is the going rate for a GTV V6 currently? They seem to vary hugely from what I can see.

If I do take the plunge I will be looking for something mechanically good, but not a show car that will halve in value the moment I leave it parked out overnight.
P.S - this car looks great and well cared for with desirable upgrades...

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2017...