156 V6 or GTV V6?

[Oilchange]

Glutton for punishment? I have an Esprit and a 156 v6.

The 156 is my daily commute car. Starts in any weather, leave it for a fortnight and it's still fine.
I get 31/32 mpg and it sounds fab, leather feels great and I have a pair of Ray Ban Predators to wear when I'm 'cruisin'. It gets a surprising amount of attention although I'm not sure if they are looking at the car or me




Sort the suspension with poly bushes, fit a strut brace and a GTa anti roll bar, change the cam belt, pullies and fit a metal water pump and the car will go very well.
... But keep an eye on the underneath, they do rust!

[V6Alfisti]

woody166 said:

These days they are all pretty much cost neutral tbh. Nothing different with the GTV except age. Need to watch the rust with the 156.

With my GTV I found that it was one of the pickier Alfa's that I had.

With silly things like the remote control coil near the steering wheel going, petrol fumes escaping from the boot e.t.c I still loved the damned thing, but I picked it up after the previous owner had just spent £2.7k on making it perfect. (A few years back)...in comparison my GT and all previous GT/156's have just needed wear and tear items like bushes/cambelts/oil.

I would still have another one though, sub 10k exotica.

[V6Alfisti]

Vitorio said:

That is encouraging! Shame most GTs over here have the JTS lump, id prefer a good old TS

I really don't mind the JTS, it doesn't sound as good as the TS but my current GT and previous JTS 156's have been faultless. They offer a healthy dose of torque as well, over their TS equiv.

I just run though Wurth injector cleaner every year to make sure those don't get clogged up.

[woody166]

V6Alfisti said:

With my GTV I found that it was one of the pickier Alfa's that I had.

With silly things like the remote control coil near the steering wheel going, petrol fumes escaping from the boot e.t.c I still loved the damned thing, but I picked it up after the previous owner had just spent £2.7k on making it perfect. (A few years back)...in comparison my GT and all previous GT/156's have just needed wear and tear items like bushes/cambelts/oil.

I would still have another one though, sub 10k exotica.

Agree with your love of the GTV. I'm running a GTV and 166 at the moment. Good example with the GTV was Throttle body Codes , limp mode and EML. Normal route would would be new Throttle Body or Potentiometer (or both) which would be the conclusion going through a garage. Big money. I did a lot of online research and found found out it is often just a poor connection behind the passenger footwell.Problem solved at no cost. I think my point is..... Alfa ownership with cars of that age , you need to do your homework and be prepared for a bit of hands on. I've been a slow learner but am now running both cars relatively cheaply and finding possibly serious expensive issues turning out to be simple fixes. I'm actually quite enjoying it too (the problem solving stuff)

[Vitorio]

V6Alfisti said:

I really don't mind the JTS, it doesn't sound as good as the TS but my current GT and previous JTS 156's have been faultless. They offer a healthy dose of torque as well, over their TS equiv.

I just run though Wurth injector cleaner every year to make sure those don't get clogged up.

From what ive read, the JTS isnt too bad, but since it was a first generation direct injection engine, it had some issues with the intake/valves getting dirty (since there is no fuel washing them clean), and not delivering the promised 165hp even straight from the factory.

[V6Alfisti]

Vitorio said:

From what ive read, the JTS isnt too bad, but since it was a first generation direct injection engine, it had some issues with the intake/valves getting dirty (since there is no fuel washing them clean), and not delivering the promised 165hp even straight from the factory.

Yes, I have read that and wouldn't be surprised if it was entirely true. However I have never noticed it in real life and can't say I feel down on the original 165bhp.

For me it is a torquey engine, that more than keeps up in the current day world. Albiet with slightly average MPG, as with the TS.

Even if it was 10-15bhp down on factory spec, that still puts it in line with the 2.0 TS but with torque.

Basically, I can see what you are saying but from my experience with them I would not be put off. I would just avoid the very earliest 2002 Alfa 156's - although having said that most of those were tweaked by Alfa's and I had one that went to 85k before I moved it on for a Brera.

[Chris71]

Oilchange said:

Glutton for punishment? I have an Esprit and a 156 v6.

I think you might just win this contest.

[Pat H]

Chris71 said:

Oilchange said:

Glutton for punishment? I have an Esprit and a 156 v6.

I think you might just win this contest.

I also have an Esprit and a 156 V6. (And a TVR, but that's another story...)

For the money, a 156 V6 is a fine car. It might lack the glamour of a GTV, but they are better in just about every other way.

I have owned two Phase 3 3.2 GTVs, which are magnificent cars, but are expensive, have crap seats, an awful turning circle, no ground clearance and body panels very vulnerable to dings. Much more exotic than a 156, but far more expensive to buy.

I don't think there's much to choose between any of the Alfa V6s in terms of running costs.

My 156 has been pretty reliable. It is a 2002 car with 98,000 miles on the clock and I have owned it for 5 years.

Front suspension rebuilds are an expensive fact of life. Clonking ARB mounts indicate unwelcome expense, but are a good excuse to put GTA anti roll bars on.

Electrics are less problematic than expected. Mine has a faulty rear manifold lambda, which is pretty much an engine out job to replace, so I just use high octane petrol and the orange light stays out most of the time.

The car has only left me stranded once, when I suffered an ECU failure. That was an expensive day out.

Apart from that, it has just been routine maintenance. A couple of sets of front discs, a couple of belt changes, one front suspension rebuild and a new radiator. It is still on it's original exhaust.

Bodywork is good on mine. There is a bit of corrosion on the radiator hangers, but the floor pan is solid. Leather trim is lovely and surprisingly hard wearing.

I get about 28 to the gallon, but it is the high cost of routine maintenance which mounts up with 156s.

The main problem with any V6 Alfa is finding a decent one which isn't expensive.

I would just buy absolutely the best car that I could find, and care less about whether it was a 156, a GT, a GTV or a GTA. They all have one flavour or another of the Busso V6 and are lovely old cars.

[Vitorio]

Pat H said:

I don't think there's much to choose between any of the Alfa V6s in terms of running costs.

One thing that bears mention is the fact that the 2.0 turbo V6 needs its valves adjusted quite often, or else they have a tendency to eat the cams, the TB cams are reground cams, and expose some softer metal to the tappets, and are thus more prone to wear. Needless to say, replacing cams is an expensive job.

Otherwise they are probably fairly similar, the old 12v engines might be a tad cheaper to get the belt done on, but that would be the extent of the difference.

[Oilchange]

Hi Pat, I have had most of the issues with my 156. changed the anti roll bar for a polybushed GTa number, needed to weld the sills for the mot etc.
The car starts fine after weeks away though, it's almost annoyingly reliable after 128,000 miles. Handles great with Uniroyal Rainsports on and the engine, with a GTa funnel pipe (one that feeds the filter box), carbon and silicon intake tubing and a stainless sports exhaust sounds epic!
Oh, and I get 32 on a commute if I am careful on the peddle.
Lots of people give it a look too which makes wearing Ray Ban Predators and slicking ones hair back a must!

Pat H said:

Lots of groovy stuff...

Edited by Oilchange on Friday 10th March 20:43

[Ian Geary]

Annoyed now. I had in my mind the v6 had mpg of high teens...

I get only 28 around town in my TS 1.6, though a steady motorway trip can see it climb high into the 30s.

It proves the adage that a large unstressed engine can be just as efficient than a small engine working hard.

Can't say I have any rust issues though (52 plate).

I know it wouldn't work with the shape, but I just wish the saloon was a bit more practical for rear space. How hard could a hatch back have been?

[Oilchange]

That will go up to mid to high 30's on a motorway run though. I had a two litre 146 and I got 37 on a run to my Bruvs in Kent

[Vitorio]

Oilchange said:

That will go up to mid to high 30's on a motorway run though. I had a two litre 146 and I got 37 on a run to my Bruvs in Kent

My 147 1.6 does ~36 mpg when i do a tank with a decent amount of motorway dawdling mixed in. Havent tracked fuel consumption when doing mostly town driving though, i dont dare

[robsco]

Pat H said:

Chris71 said:

Oilchange said:

Glutton for punishment? I have an Esprit and a 156 v6.

I think you might just win this contest.

I also have an Esprit and a 156 V6. (And a TVR, but that's another story...)

TVR and Alfa owner here too!

I've had two 156 V6s and two GTV V6s over the last few years. With my first GTV I never quite gelled with it, and the current one doesn't get used anymore as the T350 gets far more use than any of my previous TVRs. The two 156 V6s I've had on the other hand were absolutely wonderful cars... The 2.5 is just a nicer engine in my view, not quite as torquey as the 3.0 but much freer-revving and they encourage being worked hard! I love my GTVs and still think they are incredible value for money, but there is just something special about a proper 156 V6 manual that I can't put my finger on.

One of my biggest regrets in motoring was selling my absolutely immaculate Polar White 2.5 V6.

[Pat H]

robsco said:

I've had two 156 V6s and two GTV V6s over the last few years. With my first GTV I never quite gelled with it, and the current one doesn't get used anymore as the T350 gets far more use than any of my previous TVRs. The two 156 V6s I've had on the other hand were absolutely wonderful cars... The 2.5 is just a nicer engine in my view, not quite as torquey as the 3.0 but much freer-revving and they encourage being worked hard! I love my GTVs and still think they are incredible value for money, but there is just something special about a proper 156 V6 manual that I can't put my finger on.

I completely agree.

My first Alfa was one of the very rare Phase 3 3.2 GTVs. It was a great car, but was a bit of an enigma. It looked fantastic and was pretty quick, but was not quite exotic enough to justify the impracticality. So it ended up being sold.

My second Alfa was a 2.5 156, which I bought with pretty modest expectations. It has been fantastic. The 2.5 engine is a lot sweeter than the 3.2 lump and the cabin is a far nicer place to be. It is plenty practical enough, though why it hasn't got split folding rear seats is a mystery.

I loved the 156 so much that I decided I wanted to revisit the bigger V6, so bought another 3.2 GTV. It was my intention to sell the 156, but driving them back to back just confirmed that the 156 is simply a nicer mix of compromises.

I sold the GTV and still have the 156.

It isn't especially quick. The brakes and handling are adequate rather than exceptional. The build quality is fair, rather than great. Maintenance can be pretty expensive, with timing belt changes and front suspension rebuilds.

But that engine is magnificent and the whole car just exudes character that completely defies their present value. It is far better than the sum of its abilities.

God knows what I will replace it with.