916 Spider Twin spark
Discussion
oops - way overdue on time if not mileage then. The cambelt kit alone can be close to £200 depending on supplier, then cam locking tools, variator removal spanner thingy, fluids, water pump etc. Would have to check but i think the current price for a 72k service on a TS (includes belts) is around £600
I've played cambelt roulette on loads of TS's in the past and never had a failure but this was back when 145s, GTVs, 156s etc could be picked up for just a few hundred pounds so a low risk financially. I wouldnt risk it now given the prices being asked for these cars
I've played cambelt roulette on loads of TS's in the past and never had a failure but this was back when 145s, GTVs, 156s etc could be picked up for just a few hundred pounds so a low risk financially. I wouldnt risk it now given the prices being asked for these cars
Edited by paulmakin on Friday 14th April 08:53
wal 45 said:
Well found and I'd totally forgotten Neil had done this video, definite bit of luck finding that and he's saved you a whole load of work.
My personal view and knowing what this costs to do even when doing it yourself is to find another one.... There is a lot that needs doing to make that where I'd think you'd want it to be, guessed it needed a hood (circa £1200 as you'll need the whole hood as it's shrunk) from the angles the photos were taken from.
Whilst the underside looks OK superficially you'll be surprised what lurks under that Alfa underseal, I had to take all of mine off and there was a lot hidden. Easily treatable but a lot of work if you do it yourself and undoubtedly expensive if you pay someone.
All belts, waterpump and probably a Variator are a given for this car, it's every 3 years to change irrespective of mileage. Add in a clutch, rad, brake lines and probably quite a few bushes and you can easily be a few thousand of outlay in with this car.
And the final nail for me is the paintwork, you'll never match the red and it'll just annoy as it'll really stick out.
As for values though for TS they are going up and regardless of what some Busso owners think the insurance companies agree, mine has an agreed value way higher than £4K, this is my one. Good luck with the search.
I must admit, I wached it when I first started searching for the 916, and wasn't sure about it! It was the exhaust on this one that made me recognise i (and the reg number) Certainly very lucky! My personal view and knowing what this costs to do even when doing it yourself is to find another one.... There is a lot that needs doing to make that where I'd think you'd want it to be, guessed it needed a hood (circa £1200 as you'll need the whole hood as it's shrunk) from the angles the photos were taken from.
Whilst the underside looks OK superficially you'll be surprised what lurks under that Alfa underseal, I had to take all of mine off and there was a lot hidden. Easily treatable but a lot of work if you do it yourself and undoubtedly expensive if you pay someone.
All belts, waterpump and probably a Variator are a given for this car, it's every 3 years to change irrespective of mileage. Add in a clutch, rad, brake lines and probably quite a few bushes and you can easily be a few thousand of outlay in with this car.
And the final nail for me is the paintwork, you'll never match the red and it'll just annoy as it'll really stick out.
As for values though for TS they are going up and regardless of what some Busso owners think the insurance companies agree, mine has an agreed value way higher than £4K, this is my one. Good luck with the search.
It would certainly have to go to NJS oft the work, as I wouldn't be able to do it (managed fail at changing a side light in the 159..!)
I did wonder that, there could be all sorts hiding under there. I think it's the way the seller conveniently didn't photo the rear of the car with the lacqure peel in sight, or the hole in the window. I think in one of the image you van see the mark from the sticker still.
The paint doesn't look great at all, and would be more cost!
From looking at them for sale, they do seem to be, I think I'll have to up my budget perhaps.
That does look lovely! And those alloy wheels as well.
paulmakin said:
oops - way overdue on time if not mileage then. The cambelt kit alone can be close to £200 depending on supplier, then cam locking tools, variator removal spanner thingy, fluids, water pump etc. Would have to check but i think the current price for a 72k service on a TS (includes belts) is around £600
I've played cambelt roulette on loads of TS's in the past and never had a failure but this was back when 145s, GTVs, 156s etc could be picked up for just a few hundred pounds so a low risk financially. I wouldnt risk it now given the prices being asked for these cars
Definitely! And concerning there's not much in the way of history from 2021 to 2023 either.I've played cambelt roulette on loads of TS's in the past and never had a failure but this was back when 145s, GTVs, 156s etc could be picked up for just a few hundred pounds so a low risk financially. I wouldnt risk it now given the prices being asked for these cars
Edited by paulmakin on Friday 14th April 08:53
Ah, so not cheap to get it done then. I would have to do to NJS for this as well.
Knowing me, I would loose as well, and end up with trouble in the future with it.
Neil's work is very good but he does charge more than other Alfa garages I've used. I suppose you get what you pay for. I've always been very happy with his work.
I hadn't realised the roof was knackered on that red one too. In that case I'd find another one. It will definitely need a cambelt as well, that's why he hasn't sold it.
I sold my black and tan one for 3k I think back in 2018. It was basically mint and I'd just had a new rear screen put in by an old school bloke in Kings Heath in Birmingham, it had just over 100k miles and was an X reg.
They are lovely cars but you could easily spend a grand on the belts and some suspension.
I hadn't realised the roof was knackered on that red one too. In that case I'd find another one. It will definitely need a cambelt as well, that's why he hasn't sold it.
I sold my black and tan one for 3k I think back in 2018. It was basically mint and I'd just had a new rear screen put in by an old school bloke in Kings Heath in Birmingham, it had just over 100k miles and was an X reg.
They are lovely cars but you could easily spend a grand on the belts and some suspension.
CarlosSainz100 said:
Neil's work is very good but he does charge more than other Alfa garages I've used. I suppose you get what you pay for. I've always been very happy with his work.
I hadn't realised the roof was knackered on that red one too. In that case I'd find another one. It will definitely need a cambelt as well, that's why he hasn't sold it.
I sold my black and tan one for 3k I think back in 2018. It was basically mint and I'd just had a new rear screen put in by an old school bloke in Kings Heath in Birmingham, it had just over 100k miles and was an X reg.
They are lovely cars but you could easily spend a grand on the belts and some suspension.
He did seem great. I would still hi to NJS though, as ive been very impressed with his work on the 159.I hadn't realised the roof was knackered on that red one too. In that case I'd find another one. It will definitely need a cambelt as well, that's why he hasn't sold it.
I sold my black and tan one for 3k I think back in 2018. It was basically mint and I'd just had a new rear screen put in by an old school bloke in Kings Heath in Birmingham, it had just over 100k miles and was an X reg.
They are lovely cars but you could easily spend a grand on the belts and some suspension.
It does seem to be mounting up price wise. I didnt like the fact the roof/rear window/ lacqure peeling wasn't photographed in the images.
Theres quite A few nice PH1s for sale, apart from the dash differences, was there much between them?
CarlosSainz100 said:
Neil's work is very good but he does charge more than other Alfa garages I've used. I suppose you get what you pay for. I've always been very happy with his work.
I hadn't realised the roof was knackered on that red one too. In that case I'd find another one. It will definitely need a cambelt as well, that's why he hasn't sold it.
I sold my black and tan one for 3k I think back in 2018. It was basically mint and I'd just had a new rear screen put in by an old school bloke in Kings Heath in Birmingham, it had just over 100k miles and was an X reg.
They are lovely cars but you could easily spend a grand on the belts and some suspension.
He did seem great. I would still hi to NJS though, as ive been very impressed with his work on the 159.I hadn't realised the roof was knackered on that red one too. In that case I'd find another one. It will definitely need a cambelt as well, that's why he hasn't sold it.
I sold my black and tan one for 3k I think back in 2018. It was basically mint and I'd just had a new rear screen put in by an old school bloke in Kings Heath in Birmingham, it had just over 100k miles and was an X reg.
They are lovely cars but you could easily spend a grand on the belts and some suspension.
It does seem to be mounting up price wise. I didnt like the fact the roof/rear window/ lacqure peeling wasn't photographed in the images.
Theres quite A few nice PH1s for sale, apart from the dash differences, was there much between them?
there are quite a few differences between Ph1 and 2 and also between early and late Ph2's
colour coded sill covers, revised front grille, colour coded mirrors, different seats (leather Momo common on the Ph2, available as an option on the Ph1), revised dash etc. came with the facelift. air con is manual on phase 1s but auto climate control on Ph2's. auto drop on the windows on later Ph2 and i seem to recall that later cars also got the rose jointed rear arms as per the V6's
mechanical revisions were introduced with the variable inlet giving an extra 5hp on the Ph2, revised front pipe/cat set up - later Ph2 got the twin cats i think. Plastic engine cover and black bulkhead cover also added
Ph2 got less fussy 16" wheels and 17" teledials optioned
Always difficult to be definitive though as there were a lot of crossover parts and options on the early cars became standard on later vehicles
colour coded sill covers, revised front grille, colour coded mirrors, different seats (leather Momo common on the Ph2, available as an option on the Ph1), revised dash etc. came with the facelift. air con is manual on phase 1s but auto climate control on Ph2's. auto drop on the windows on later Ph2 and i seem to recall that later cars also got the rose jointed rear arms as per the V6's
mechanical revisions were introduced with the variable inlet giving an extra 5hp on the Ph2, revised front pipe/cat set up - later Ph2 got the twin cats i think. Plastic engine cover and black bulkhead cover also added
Ph2 got less fussy 16" wheels and 17" teledials optioned
Always difficult to be definitive though as there were a lot of crossover parts and options on the early cars became standard on later vehicles
paulmakin said:
there are quite a few differences between Ph1 and 2 and also between early and late Ph2's
colour coded sill covers, revised front grille, colour coded mirrors, different seats (leather Momo common on the Ph2, available as an option on the Ph1), revised dash etc. came with the facelift. air con is manual on phase 1s but auto climate control on Ph2's. auto drop on the windows on later Ph2 and i seem to recall that later cars also got the rose jointed rear arms as per the V6's
mechanical revisions were introduced with the variable inlet giving an extra 5hp on the Ph2, revised front pipe/cat set up - later Ph2 got the twin cats i think. Plastic engine cover and black bulkhead cover also added
Ph2 got less fussy 16" wheels and 17" teledials optioned
Always difficult to be definitive though as there were a lot of crossover parts and options on the early cars became standard on later vehicles
Thank you for that. Ah, quite a few differences then! colour coded sill covers, revised front grille, colour coded mirrors, different seats (leather Momo common on the Ph2, available as an option on the Ph1), revised dash etc. came with the facelift. air con is manual on phase 1s but auto climate control on Ph2's. auto drop on the windows on later Ph2 and i seem to recall that later cars also got the rose jointed rear arms as per the V6's
mechanical revisions were introduced with the variable inlet giving an extra 5hp on the Ph2, revised front pipe/cat set up - later Ph2 got the twin cats i think. Plastic engine cover and black bulkhead cover also added
Ph2 got less fussy 16" wheels and 17" teledials optioned
Always difficult to be definitive though as there were a lot of crossover parts and options on the early cars became standard on later vehicles
I seem to be too carried away on the colour too, I quite like the like green one for sale, but I don't think I'm brave enough.
As long as you don't touch any JTS engines cars with a large bargepole.....
I think the main difference is the ph2 cars are just a bit more modern inside (compared to what came before that is; a place for heads up displays and apple carplay this is not).
The teledials wheels look great but I'd avoid the larger wheels just because the last thing a GTV spider needs is a firmer ride.
I'd also try Facebook gtv owners groups and maybe ao online. Autolusso may know of someone trying to flog a good one, I'd give them a call as well, you never know. What you need is a good privately owned enthusiasts car.
I think the main difference is the ph2 cars are just a bit more modern inside (compared to what came before that is; a place for heads up displays and apple carplay this is not).
The teledials wheels look great but I'd avoid the larger wheels just because the last thing a GTV spider needs is a firmer ride.
I'd also try Facebook gtv owners groups and maybe ao online. Autolusso may know of someone trying to flog a good one, I'd give them a call as well, you never know. What you need is a good privately owned enthusiasts car.
jamesbilluk said:
Thank you for that. Ah, quite a few differences then!
I seem to be too carried away on the colour too, I quite like the like green one for sale, but I don't think I'm brave enough.
There's one on autotrader for 6k red with cloth seats. From an Alfa specialist. I've never used them but I have heard on ao online that they're good. 6k seems expensive but then, covid. There's also a blue one with tan seats that's the same price but a private sale. He'll never shift that at 6k so maybe a deal to be done. I seem to be too carried away on the colour too, I quite like the like green one for sale, but I don't think I'm brave enough.
CarlosSainz100 said:
As long as you don't touch any JTS engines cars with a large bargepole.....
I think the main difference is the ph2 cars are just a bit more modern inside (compared to what came before that is; a place for heads up displays and apple carplay this is not).
The teledials wheels look great but I'd avoid the larger wheels just because the last thing a GTV spider needs is a firmer ride.
I'd also try Facebook gtv owners groups and maybe ao online. Autolusso may know of someone trying to flog a good one, I'd give them a call as well, you never know. What you need is a good privately owned enthusiasts car.
Will definitely stick to the Twin Spark engine. I think the main difference is the ph2 cars are just a bit more modern inside (compared to what came before that is; a place for heads up displays and apple carplay this is not).
The teledials wheels look great but I'd avoid the larger wheels just because the last thing a GTV spider needs is a firmer ride.
I'd also try Facebook gtv owners groups and maybe ao online. Autolusso may know of someone trying to flog a good one, I'd give them a call as well, you never know. What you need is a good privately owned enthusiasts car.
I do like the standard wheels that come with them, both the PH1 style, and PH2 style too.
Good shout that, I shall have a look on the FB groups, and have a phone around as well.
That does sound ideal, one that's been looked after by an enthusiast.
CarlosSainz100 said:
There's one on autotrader for 6k red with cloth seats. From an Alfa specialist. I've never used them but I have heard on ao online that they're good. 6k seems expensive but then, covid. There's also a blue one with tan seats that's the same price but a private sale. He'll never shift that at 6k so maybe a deal to be done.
Just seen the red one at the specialist, it does look good.And the blue with tan leather, shame there's not more detail on it though.
Edited by jamesbilluk on Saturday 15th April 02:24
its just a thought and may not suit your plans but a non-rotten and cosmetically good car at a lower price will give you space in the budget to get mechanical stuff sorted, even at a specialist. I see spiders starting at around 2.5k with current MoT etc. You would then have the added security of known provenance
this type of "rolling restoration" car has worked well for me in the past with the caveat that the vehicle, when purchased, has been perfectly useable
re wheels - the teledials are available in 16 and 17 inch. the 16s were, i believe, 156 fitment so check offset. the 17s were pretty much exclusively 916 V6 fitment and can be very expensive to source nowadays.
this type of "rolling restoration" car has worked well for me in the past with the caveat that the vehicle, when purchased, has been perfectly useable
re wheels - the teledials are available in 16 and 17 inch. the 16s were, i believe, 156 fitment so check offset. the 17s were pretty much exclusively 916 V6 fitment and can be very expensive to source nowadays.
Edited by paulmakin on Sunday 16th April 10:53
paulmakin said:
its just a thought and may not suit your plans but a non-rotten and cosmetically good car at a lower price will give you space in the budget to get mechanical stuff sorted, even at a specialist. I see spiders starting at around 2.5k with current MoT etc. You would then have the added security of known provenance
this type of "rolling restoration" car has worked well for me in the past with the caveat that the vehicle, when purchased, has been perfectly useable
re wheels - the teledials are available in 16 and 17 inch. the 16s were, i believe, 156 fitment so check offset. the 17s were pretty much exclusively 916 V6 fitment and can be very expensive to source nowadays.
That could be an option as well.this type of "rolling restoration" car has worked well for me in the past with the caveat that the vehicle, when purchased, has been perfectly useable
re wheels - the teledials are available in 16 and 17 inch. the 16s were, i believe, 156 fitment so check offset. the 17s were pretty much exclusively 916 V6 fitment and can be very expensive to source nowadays.
Edited by paulmakin on Sunday 16th April 10:53
I've been chatting with the seller of a Zoe yellow one up at £4000. He does have this one with less history, and some lacqure peeling. I did do a check on it, and it's coming up as a Cat D. I asked him about it, and it was due to it getting keyed at some point.
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/20970400...
Not sure how tricky this would be to colour match as well
i'm looking into spray-wrap as my paint is terrible, secondary to the car having been a daily in London for a long time. I'm told that colours can be matched to the original, which would be helpful with an unusual colour such as Zoe.
916 size vehicle seems to be around £1200 (basic, no parts removed).
916 size vehicle seems to be around £1200 (basic, no parts removed).
paulmakin said:
i'm looking into spray-wrap as my paint is terrible, secondary to the car having been a daily in London for a long time. I'm told that colours can be matched to the original, which would be helpful with an unusual colour such as Zoe.
916 size vehicle seems to be around £1200 (basic, no parts removed).
Thats not too bad at all.916 size vehicle seems to be around £1200 (basic, no parts removed).
Looking at the yellow, the roof doesn't look great either really.
This one looks to have been nicely cared for too
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202304106...
Definitely the red one. It's an early one but no worse for that.
I dunno what's going on with that yellow one but it doesn't look right to me. Also the sills have some weird nonstandard bodykit on there. Maybe an Alfa beard with more knowledge would put me right and say it was an option, but if it was it's not a very nice option and could be hiding all kinds of rusty problems. Plus it needs belts.
I dunno what's going on with that yellow one but it doesn't look right to me. Also the sills have some weird nonstandard bodykit on there. Maybe an Alfa beard with more knowledge would put me right and say it was an option, but if it was it's not a very nice option and could be hiding all kinds of rusty problems. Plus it needs belts.
CarlosSainz100 said:
Definitely the red one. It's an early one but no worse for that.
I dunno what's going on with that yellow one but it doesn't look right to me. Also the sills have some weird nonstandard bodykit on there. Maybe an Alfa beard with more knowledge would put me right and say it was an option, but if it was it's not a very nice option and could be hiding all kinds of rusty problems. Plus it needs belts.
I do like the Red one, and only 4 owners as well, after doing a car check. I think I'll phone about that tomorrow.I dunno what's going on with that yellow one but it doesn't look right to me. Also the sills have some weird nonstandard bodykit on there. Maybe an Alfa beard with more knowledge would put me right and say it was an option, but if it was it's not a very nice option and could be hiding all kinds of rusty problems. Plus it needs belts.
With the underside, we're the PH1s always black? , this one seems to be body coloured like a PH2.
The Yellow one doesn't seem quite right, and the roof doesn't look ideal either.
Your right about the side skirts, could well be hiding something. After looking deeper into it on a car check it's also a Cat D.
Edited by jamesbilluk on Sunday 16th April 23:09
Good to see you're still looking, have you tried Car and Classic website as there are a few on there? I haven't looked at cars for sale for a while and I'm really surprised how few are coming up now..couple of years ago there were loads of them.
The underside of 916s from the factory is covered in a mid grey textured rubbery underseal although it does go much darker with the accumulated muck that a car sees in it's life. If it is a fresh dark black then it has a coating of some sort, mine is black but only because I had to remove all of the underseal and start again.
I'd avoid that Zoe personally, it doesn't look good and I know (the guy that sprayed mine has got one in at the moment) matching it will be very difficult. The body kit doesn't look great plus a few other alarm bells.
It might be worth a wanted ad on the Alfa Owner forum and see what comes up.
The underside of 916s from the factory is covered in a mid grey textured rubbery underseal although it does go much darker with the accumulated muck that a car sees in it's life. If it is a fresh dark black then it has a coating of some sort, mine is black but only because I had to remove all of the underseal and start again.
I'd avoid that Zoe personally, it doesn't look good and I know (the guy that sprayed mine has got one in at the moment) matching it will be very difficult. The body kit doesn't look great plus a few other alarm bells.
It might be worth a wanted ad on the Alfa Owner forum and see what comes up.
wal 45 said:
Good to see you're still looking, have you tried Car and Classic website as there are a few on there? I haven't looked at cars for sale for a while and I'm really surprised how few are coming up now..couple of years ago there were loads of them.
The underside of 916s from the factory is covered in a mid grey textured rubbery underseal although it does go much darker with the accumulated muck that a car sees in it's life. If it is a fresh dark black then it has a coating of some sort, mine is black but only because I had to remove all of the underseal and start again.
I'd avoid that Zoe personally, it doesn't look good and I know (the guy that sprayed mine has got one in at the moment) matching it will be very difficult. The body kit doesn't look great plus a few other alarm bells.
It might be worth a wanted ad on the Alfa Owner forum and see what comes up.
I do like the Spider, something different. Also the 986 boxster and Z4, but the spider is the one I'll hopefully go for of/when I find one.The underside of 916s from the factory is covered in a mid grey textured rubbery underseal although it does go much darker with the accumulated muck that a car sees in it's life. If it is a fresh dark black then it has a coating of some sort, mine is black but only because I had to remove all of the underseal and start again.
I'd avoid that Zoe personally, it doesn't look good and I know (the guy that sprayed mine has got one in at the moment) matching it will be very difficult. The body kit doesn't look great plus a few other alarm bells.
It might be worth a wanted ad on the Alfa Owner forum and see what comes up.
I did have a look on there, and saw this one
https://www.carandclassic.com/l/C1560244
Your right, there doesn't seem to be many coming up,
That Red PH1 on Auto trader I may phone up about, as it does look cared for. I'll speak to the seller, and ask about the underside as well.
I think I'll give the Silver a miss! I can imagine it would be fun trying to colour match Zoe Yellow.
So far, that Red is winning so far, but will have a look on the Alfa owners forum too.
I do like them in Red (also the yellow, but that seems to be rare)
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