Rant: Is the Brera a joke?
Discussion
Having just read the Autocar test of the Brera, I'm thinking Alfa must be living on another planet. What have they done? The things a joke!
The GTV 3.0 was released 10 years ago with 220bhp, 0-60 in 6.5 and 0-100 in 16, weight 1440kg or so. At the time, FAST cars like a 993 were doing 0-60 in 5.2 , basically short of a 911,355, the GTV kicked ass.
Now they release this cardboard cutout of a car weighing 1745 kgs, doing 0-60 in 7 secs and 0-100 in 18.8 at a time when the opposition have moved on at least two steps.
The GTV 3.0 was released 10 years ago with 220bhp, 0-60 in 6.5 and 0-100 in 16, weight 1440kg or so. At the time, FAST cars like a 993 were doing 0-60 in 5.2 , basically short of a 911,355, the GTV kicked ass.
Now they release this cardboard cutout of a car weighing 1745 kgs, doing 0-60 in 7 secs and 0-100 in 18.8 at a time when the opposition have moved on at least two steps.
Agree. It is a nice looking motor, but not a patch on the concept.
The performance, though, truly is a joke... to "upgrade" my GTV would entail handing the dealership both my car and a large bale of £ notes and still driving away in a less accellerative, slower machine than I arrived in and what's more, one that 90% of the population will mistake for what will be a relatively common saloon over the next couple of years.
The performance, though, truly is a joke... to "upgrade" my GTV would entail handing the dealership both my car and a large bale of £ notes and still driving away in a less accellerative, slower machine than I arrived in and what's more, one that 90% of the population will mistake for what will be a relatively common saloon over the next couple of years.
I think it's a great looking car, albeit not nearly as nice as the concept. It does seem a bit heavy, but I guess it's safer / more comfortable / quieter than the GTV, and unfortunately that seems to be the way all manufacturers are heading. I've not driven one yet, but it does seem a disappointment if it feels as sluggush as people say.
I read somewhere that it is due a facelift in 2008, when the V6 will be re-worked to give 290bhp rather than the 260bhp it has now - not sure what the respective torque figures will be, but someone clever can probably work it out. Whether an 11% increase is enough remains to be seen.
I read somewhere that it is due a facelift in 2008, when the V6 will be re-worked to give 290bhp rather than the 260bhp it has now - not sure what the respective torque figures will be, but someone clever can probably work it out. Whether an 11% increase is enough remains to be seen.
Brera - thing is when I see them on the road I double take and think - mmm nice, but as others have said it's not as pretty as the concept was.
All in all it's a TT / CLK rival at a similar price with similar performance. It's not a replacement for the GTV at all and you have to remember that.
All very well to go on about performance (and I do agree that the brera ain't got the thump it should have). However it's pretty obvious that the majority of buyers lined up for this market segment will be thinking about image first - TT / R32 / CLK / Audi Cabrio I would imagine are the main competetors Alfa has in mind - none of these offer a particularly sporting drive, good power and good cruising ability in the 25-30k price range and a good set of cupholders and comfy seats are probably better sales drivers than an extra 50bhp..
It's clear though that this has diverted Alfa away from it's seemingly traditional value of providing a passionate driving experience for the enthusiast which is a shame...
Having seen the spyder at Goodwood last week though I do have to say that it's a very pretty machine.
All in all it's a TT / CLK rival at a similar price with similar performance. It's not a replacement for the GTV at all and you have to remember that.
All very well to go on about performance (and I do agree that the brera ain't got the thump it should have). However it's pretty obvious that the majority of buyers lined up for this market segment will be thinking about image first - TT / R32 / CLK / Audi Cabrio I would imagine are the main competetors Alfa has in mind - none of these offer a particularly sporting drive, good power and good cruising ability in the 25-30k price range and a good set of cupholders and comfy seats are probably better sales drivers than an extra 50bhp..
It's clear though that this has diverted Alfa away from it's seemingly traditional value of providing a passionate driving experience for the enthusiast which is a shame...
Having seen the spyder at Goodwood last week though I do have to say that it's a very pretty machine.
sjn2004 said:
Just to add, the new TT does 0-60 in 5.7 and 155mph. Its the same price as the Brera.
5.9 seconds for the manual, to give a like-for-like comparison. To be honest, if you're judging this type of car on 0.8 seconds difference in the (largely meaningless) 0-62 sprint, and a claimed 6mph top speed advantage, then I think you're missing the point of them entirely.
edit for spelling.
Edited by jamieboy on Tuesday 11th July 09:41
tr7v8 said:
As others have said this market is all about image & not based on substance. Hence the TT, base model 3C etc etc
Sadly true. There are very few rwd coupes out there that focus on performance, rather than image and toys. Z4 Coupe is closest I can think of off the top of my head, without going all the way to a Cayman or higher (and that comes with effing runflats, buggering unsprung weight and tyre compliance!!!). While the 350Z is too heavy and showy, not enough finesse and sophistication in the design.
jamieboy said:
sjn2004 said:
Just to add, the new TT does 0-60 in 5.7 and 155mph. Its the same price as the Brera.
5.9 seconds for the manual, to give a like-for-like comparison. To be honest, if you're judging this type of car on 0.8 seconds difference in the (largely meaningless) 0-62 sprint, and a claimed 6mph top speed advantage, then I think you're missing the point of them entirely.
edit for spelling.
Edited by jamieboy on Tuesday 11th July 09:41
The difference is 1.3 secs(0-62 against new TT), and against the old GTV loses around 3 secs to 100. I guess you've never had a motorway slip road race??? 0-100 is VERY important! Not missing the point at all, when you're in your Brera, and I approach from behing in my older 3.0GTV, you'll have to move over and watch me disappear into the distance.Not good when a car that started out on a P reg (I think) can actually blow away its newly released replacement.
sjn2004 said:
The difference is 1.3 secs(0-62 against new TT)
Alfa Romeo quotes 6.8 for 0-62, and Audi quotes 5.9 for 0-62 for the manual car, so I apologise for stating it was a 0.8 difference, when it's actually 0.9. An extra £1400 would buy the S-tronic gearbox for the Audi, which reduces the 0-62 sprint to 5.7, giving it a massive 1.1 second advantage over the Alfa.
If these figures are the defining reason for buying or not buying a car, then I agree that the Brera does seem a disappointment, and indeed there are claims that a revised engine is on the way for 2008. For me, there's more to driving than 'slip road races' and 'blowing people away', so I'd be inclined to look at the whole package.
edit because I messed up the quote tags. Again.
Edited by jamieboy on Wednesday 12th July 09:28
richb said:
By way of comparison here's a couple of pics I took at Le mans this weekend...
Now don't misunderstand me, because I really like my GTV, but I think that photo makes the GTV look quite dated compared to the Brera - as you might expect for a 10-year-old design. With that said, I think that in years to come the GTV might well be held in higher regard than the Brera as a classic.
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