Rant: Is the Brera a joke?
Discussion
4WD said:
Interesting to note some of the PR spinners have only just joined to post on this thread 
You can include me in that if it really makes you happy!
The fact of the matter is I have been a reader on the forum for some while, but never felt sufficiently motivated to post before. I decided to on this thread because I thought the car was getting un-fairly slated by people who had probably not even seen one in the metal, certainly not driven one and most definately didn't own one!!! I am giving my opinion on the car I own and drive daily, based on that, and not statistics or what I've read in a magazine.
The timing just happened to coincide with when I got the car and I just thought I would see if anyone was posting about it yet. If I'd seen the thread before I'd collected the car, I'd have been in no position to post, but as I had I thought my input was valid?!
4WD said:
Alfa used to represent spirited driving for enthusiasts - ie, everyone on this site. Hence the focus upon speed and the thrill of driving you may have noticed.
It is quick enough to provide thrills, and certainly handles well enough to provide enough for the spirited driver. Autocar placed the 2.2 ahead of the RX8 and R32 in their first drive, I don't think that would have happened if it drove like a dog?!
I am an enthusist through and through, if it was slow and boring to drive I wouldn't have bought it, but people have different, (sometimes enforced), motivations for buying cars other than out and out thrills. Your 145 sounds great, and I'm sure it's a lot of fun to blast round country lanes in, but I wouldn't want to do 30K miles a year up and down motorways in it, so there has to be a compromise based on what you want/need the car for.
I'm not claiming the Brera is the last word in driving excitement, but it's a GT, just like the GTV was, so for me it can do both the comfort on the motorway and the fun on the lanes. It's not an Elise, but it's not trying to be. It's not a Merc CL, but it's not trying to be.
4WD said:
PH isn't really about obese people carriers laden with lead armchairs.
Very true, and neither is this thread so your point is.....?
4WD said:
No matter how pretty the surface might be. Alfa has clearly shifted it's target audience.
It's called market forces and making a profit. The fact of the matter is there is more demand for a GT type coupe than a hardcore, enthusiast focused sportscar. Alfa need to sell cars in some volume to make money, so they have to appeal to the majority. Yes it is good looking, and that way motivate some people to buy one who don't care how it drives, but if you go and test drive one this weekend you will find it drives very well too. If you do that and still think it's crap, then come back and say why!
With a bit of luck the rumoured Brera GTA will silence the critics and provide the speed and thrills that the 'standard' car apparently lacks!
PR Dept out!
brerasv said:
Autocar placed the 2.2 ahead of the RX8 and R32 in their first drive, I don't think that would have happened if it drove like a dog?!
IMHO Autocar is a comic that will try and sell anything they get to drive for free. I've never really had much truck with their opinions. I have driven an RX8 and it handles REALLY well, and is deceptively quick. Dynamically, given the Brera's weight and roots I can't see it getting anywhere near the 'rex.
brerasv said:
It's called market forces and making a profit. The fact of the matter is there is more demand for a GT type coupe than a hardcore, enthusiast focused sportscar. Alfa need to sell cars in some volume to make money, so they have to appeal to the majority. Yes it is good looking, and that way motivate some people to buy one who don't care how it drives...
Now that I agree with...there is a very distinct (and growing) 'poser' market, which Alfa have got a pretty good grip on. And if that's where they want to pitch themselves, I've no problem with that, everyone wants a different car, we've not all got 98RON blood.
havoc said:
IMHO Autocar is a comic that will try and sell anything they get to drive for free.
Err, they drove all 3 cars, I'm guessing all for free?!?!
havoc said:
I have driven an RX8 and it handles REALLY well, and is deceptively quick.
So have I and both those points are true. Sadly it also has an interior made of Lego, sounds like a hairdrier and drinks like Oliver Reed! Next.
havoc said:
Dynamically, given the Brera's weight and roots I can't see it getting anywhere near the 'rex.
Possibly true, but this is not the 'be all and end all' depending on what you want the car for.
havoc said:
Now that I agree with...there is a very distinct (and growing) 'poser' market, which Alfa have got a pretty good grip on.
Congratulations on reading my post and totally missing the point!
Lots of people buy lots of different cars purely based on what they look like, without even driving them. Some people also want something a bit different, not to follow like sheep and buy a TT or 3-series coupe!
I was saying that the Brera, unlike the previous gen TT for example, is not just a pretty face, but drives well too. Again, maybe you should actually drive it before you form an opinion?
havoc said:
If that's were they want to pitch themselves, I've no problem with that.
I'm sure Alfa management will sleep easily tonight knowing this!!!
havoc said:
Everyone wants a different car, we've not all got 98RON blood.
When it comes to enthusiasm my blood is 100RON!
It just happens that with my job I have to do 30k per year on all types of roads. Common sense dictates a diesel with this type of mileage, as I would like to spend my money on other things than Super unleaded!
I therefore want a car that is comfortable and refined on a motorway, but can entertain away from it.
My car acheives this.
I want a car that looks stylish and different, not one that I will see 50 times in a day.
My car acheives this.
I want something that is sporty, but not harsh and tiring.
My car acheives this also.
Perhaps in your infinite wisdom you could suggest which other sub-£30k, diesel coupe meeting the criteria above, I should have chosen?
I can't wait for your reply?!
If I was not driving the mileage I do, I would have a 993 C2 and an old runaround, but at present this is not practical. Hopefully in 2 years time when I come to change again, I will be in a position to do this. Until then I will continue to enjoy my car, confident i made the right choice!
Edited by brerasv on Monday 31st July 21:00
jamieboy said:
brerasv said:
stuff
Sorry you've not had the warmest welcome to PH.
It's good that we can get your opinion on what the car is like to own and drive, based on real-life rather than on facts and figures - keep us up to date with how you're getting on.
Thankyou Jamie, although sadly you appear to be in the minority in your interest in the facts!
I may update, but to be honest this is becoming very tiring, so I really don't know if I can be arsed constantly defending a car against people who haven't driven it.
There are any number of cars I may form an opinion of from magazines or stats, but unless I have actually driven them, I regard my opinion as being in-valid. Others don't appear to share my belief!
brerasv said:
havoc said:
IMHO Autocar is a comic that will try and sell anything they get to drive for free.
Err, they drove all 3 cars, I'm guessing all for free?!?!
brerasv said:
havoc said:
I have driven an RX8 and it handles REALLY well, and is deceptively quick.
So have I and both those points are true. Sadly it also has an interior made of Lego, sounds like a hairdrier and drinks like Oliver Reed! Next.
brerasv said:
It just happens that with my job I have to do 30k per year on all types of roads. Common sense dictates a diesel with this type of mileage, as I would like to spend my money on other things than Super unleaded!
I therefore want a car that is comfortable and refined on a motorway, but can entertain away from it.
I want a car that looks stylish and different, not one that I will see 50 times in a day.
I want something that is sporty, but not harsh and tiring.
Perhaps in your infinite wisdom you could suggest which other sub-£30k, diesel coupe meeting the criteria above, I should have chosen?
I therefore want a car that is comfortable and refined on a motorway, but can entertain away from it.
I want a car that looks stylish and different, not one that I will see 50 times in a day.
I want something that is sporty, but not harsh and tiring.
Perhaps in your infinite wisdom you could suggest which other sub-£30k, diesel coupe meeting the criteria above, I should have chosen?
Nope, for you I can see you've made a good choice...and I wasn't trying to be as confrontational as you read my earlier post.
I also do 25k+ a year at the moment...but I chose a different route (mainly because I can't stomach silly depreciation as that can be a major part of running costs): I've got a Focus TDCi Sport - handles very well, is quick enough for the M-way and not disgraced on an A- or B-road, is just about comfy enough and in 3-dr Performance Blue with nice alloys actually looks quite good (not as individual as the Brera, but very clean and in-proportion).
And then I've the S2000, which is about as focused a driver's car as I could get while still being able to take two of us away for a long weekend walking or to family or wherever.
My daily driver is as involving as it can be while still being a doddle to drive, yet I haven't compromised when I want some fun. But half my friends think I'm silly running two cars, so you're by no means alone in your approach.
I drove an RX8 30k over 2 years. Yes it uses fuel, but not so much. It takes SUL not Opti, I got better milage than my bro's 2.5v6 Saab and I doubt a 3.2v6 driven properly would be any different.
As for the review of the GT lol, you read that as truth then, when the RX8 got round the top gear test track as quick as the M3.
As for the review of the GT lol, you read that as truth then, when the RX8 got round the top gear test track as quick as the M3.
i'm fresh from a series of test drives including BMW/Audis/RX8/159 & Brera, & can report that the Mazda left me cold, the interior ( lets face it, the bit you look at constantly whilst driving ) & engine note, where awful, good chasis though! . German stuff just does'nt do it for me at all, & i know the TT will be a good car but 95% of the population will think the same
So that leaves the Brera
So that leaves the Brera
A Quick brera (lol) is 6-8k more than the RX8, and no ones comenting on the interior , or exterior look/feel of them I dont think? when my 8 got stolen I looked hard at getting a 159 (2.4jtd veloce) but got the 8 back.
There not aimed at the same market tho, people only ever buy an alfa with their hearts anyhow.
Ouch a Brera speced up to ~sort of RX8 spec is near 32k !
There not aimed at the same market tho, people only ever buy an alfa with their hearts anyhow.
Ouch a Brera speced up to ~sort of RX8 spec is near 32k !
Edited by robdickinson on Monday 31st July 22:59
robdickinson said:
Ouch a Brera speced up to ~sort of RX8 spec is near 32k !
£8k buys a lot of interior quality!!! Could almost suggest it's a different market... 
I'm not denying the Brera will be a well-built car with good quality and individual looks (nose is great, rear IMHO looks very overweight...but then the RX8 looks fussy). But to call it a sports car is pushing things a little, in the same way that a Merc CL65AMG ISN'T a sports car.
jamieboy said:
havoc said:
But to call it a sports car is pushing things a little
And this, I think, is the point. Alfa Romeo is not calling the Brera a sports car, it's calling it a "prestige coupe".
Aha! I think we've got to the crux of the matter, then... until the Brera GTA arrives, Alfa have effectively abandoned the 'performance' end of the market?
Maybe the only reason there's so much discussion and disagreement is because what we thought Alfa was going to give us is so different from what we were expecting.
Had AR secretly developed the Brera and presented it as a fait accomplié, along with the "prestige coupé" tag, perhaps we wouldn't be feeling rather let-down following the beautiful prototype that did the rounds...
jamieboy said:
havoc said:
But to call it a sports car is pushing things a little
And this, I think, is the point. Alfa Romeo is not calling the Brera a sports car, it's calling it a "prestige coupe".
Yes!!
And that's how I said it drove* back on page 4 of this never ending ramble.
*That's drove, as in drove down the road, with me driving it, for a 24 hour test, not someone else, not reading about it in a mag, or looking at the kerb weight and deciding it's no good from the comfort of the bath.
pdV6 said:
Maybe the only reason there's so much discussion and disagreement is because what we thought Alfa was going to give us is so different from what we were expecting.
Had AR secretly developed the Brera and presented it as a fait accomplié, along with the "prestige coupé" tag, perhaps we wouldn't be feeling rather let-down following the beautiful prototype that did the rounds...
Had AR secretly developed the Brera and presented it as a fait accomplié, along with the "prestige coupé" tag, perhaps we wouldn't be feeling rather let-down following the beautiful prototype that did the rounds...
Quite possibly.
I think there are still a few people who remember Alfa's sporting heritage, and how they made cars which drove as well as they sounded...and were expecting a return to old form, rather than targeting the same market the original TT almost invented.
Actually...I would suggest this Alfa might be closer to a modern Jag than a classic Alfa.
havoc said:
Actually...I would suggest this Alfa might be closer to a modern Jag than a classic Alfa.
As mentioned already
"classic Alfas" were GT cars. The 2600, the 105 coupe (in most normal forms), 116 Alfetta/GTV6 and even the SZ were comfortable, practical, ground coverers which could maintain a high average speed point to point while satisfying the driver. 
They were never rabid point and squirt loon machines or even "sports cars" whatever that means. The Brera is a return to that form. If anyone was expecting an Alfasud, they will be disappointed, but also they weren't being at all realistic either!! 
For each of these classic two doors there was an equivalent 4 door saloon and those drove with equal aplomb, but I stress again they were never the fastest on paper cars in their class as their appeal ran much deeper than mere statistics.
Wombat Rick said:
havoc said:
Actually...I would suggest this Alfa might be closer to a modern Jag than a classic Alfa.
As mentioned already
"classic Alfas" were GT cars. The 2600, the 105 coupe (in most normal forms), 116 Alfetta/GTV6 and even the SZ were comfortable, practical, ground coverers which could maintain a high average speed point to point while satisfying the driver. They were never rabid point and squirt loon machines or even "sports cars" whatever that means. The Brera is a return to that form. If anyone was expecting an Alfasud, they will be disappointed, but also they weren't being at all realistic either!! For each of these classic two doors there was an equivalent 4 door saloon and those drove with equal aplomb, but I stress again they were never the fastest on paper cars in their class as their appeal ran much deeper than mere statistics.
^^^ What he said.
pdV6 said:
jamieboy said:
havoc said:
But to call it a sports car is pushing things a little
And this, I think, is the point. Alfa Romeo is not calling the Brera a sports car, it's calling it a "prestige coupe".
Aha! I think we've got to the crux of the matter, then... until the Brera GTA arrives, Alfa have effectively abandoned the 'performance' end of the market?
Maybe the only reason there's so much discussion and disagreement is because what we thought Alfa was going to give us is so different from what we were expecting.
Had AR secretly developed the Brera and presented it as a fait accomplié, along with the "prestige coupé" tag, perhaps we wouldn't be feeling rather let-down following the beautiful prototype that did the rounds...
This is the crux of the matter!!!
Maybe the reason I'm not dissapointed is I never expected anything different to what Alfa delivered. Not for one minute did I think we would get a 'Sports Car', it was always going to be a GT, which is what I wanted. I think it may have been wishful thinking to expect anything else if you look at the direction Alfa and others have been heading for some time, ie more equipment, more refinement, more weight! As I said hopefully the Brera GTA will be brilliant and then there will be something for everyone?!
Havoc: I did take your post as a a bit confrontational mate, hence my reply! I apologise if I took it more harshly than you meant, just felt the need to defend my motor!
Glad you agree with my choice based on my motivation, I can see why you've gone in the direction you have also. As I said i considered it myself but at present just can't justify the 2 car thing, I've done it in the past, (when I was doing a lot less mileage), with a concourse/show Golf GTi and a 205 XS and it cost me a fortune! I'm not too worried about the depreciation personally as I'm lucky that the car is paid for with a car allowance from work, so I don't see it as my hard-earned!!!
Is there still talk of a Brera GTA? I seem to remember something a long while ago talking about a 4.2 V8 engine.... and there were some pictures that seemed more marketing than substance. But no other talk for a long time now.
I can't see a Brera GTA happening. Anyone know different?
I can't see a Brera GTA happening. Anyone know different?
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