Rant: Is the Brera a joke?
Discussion
4WD said:
I wonder how much more the V8 weighs? Could be the first two ton Alfa. It might not actually be any quicker accelerating in a straight line. It'll be even slower into the corners of course.
Didn't your mother ever tell you that if you don't have anything nice to say......
I have yet to read a positive post from you 4WD, most are sarcastic or scathing and some border on offensive!
You clearly don't think the Brera has any redeeming features, and will never own one so it baffles me why you seem to care so much?!?! Move On!!!
So you think adding more weight over the front of a car will improve the cornering balance. 
Not if my Alfa GTA and basic school physics are anything to go by
Sorry my posts are not full of over zealous hype. Over and out. Back to your adverts.
Not if my Alfa GTA and basic school physics are anything to go by
Sorry my posts are not full of over zealous hype. Over and out. Back to your adverts.
Edited by 4WD on Saturday 5th August 13:04
4WD said:
So you think adding more weight over the front of a car will improve the cornering balance.
Not if my Alfa GTA and basic school physics are anything to go by
Not if my Alfa GTA and basic school physics are anything to go by
A heavier engine will always be heavier, no argument there. Presumably that is why Alfa are reportedly looking at the use of aluminium and carbonfibre for the Brera GTA.
4WD said:
Over and out.
I'm moving from Audi to Alfa... I have a 2 year old Audi A3 3.2V6 Quattro with DSG, and love it, but after lovinbg the quality, and understated confidence of the styling, I have just got bored. It'll be a downgrade in speed (slightly) and probably interior quality, but I love the design, the sound, the (not so shabby) handling and the fact it's a little different - but not too 'look at me' if in the right colour.
Done the test drives, and going for it next year, with a full spec. and looking forward to it. I don't care about the fact it COULD go a second faaster to 60 or be a little lighter round the corners, because there is so many other factors involved in loving a car.
Done the test drives, and going for it next year, with a full spec. and looking forward to it. I don't care about the fact it COULD go a second faaster to 60 or be a little lighter round the corners, because there is so many other factors involved in loving a car.
I've just come back form a test drive in the brera 3.2 q4 and thought I'd put in my impressions. Firstly there's a couple of things said here which I must clarify. Firstly, the Alfa tradition is NOT to build GTs. There have been many Alfa Gt cars but its not the sole raison d'etre of the brand, and neither the gtv nor the sv are GTs, despite wwat some have said here. In fact I think you must be nuts to think the SV was a GT.
I currently have a GTV cup and was looking forward to the Brera as the next car. I saw it at the motor show and my impression was that they'd turned the sleek concept into a fat boy. While still pretty, the Brera looks like a very attractive hatchback ala a3 or 147, not a sports car. I think most people would think it's a swanky golf rival rather than a tt rival. Dissapointing. In fact the brera looks exactly like a 159 with the boot cut off, which is exactly what it is. A very attractive hatch and no more.
Having said that the interior quality was great, very solid and comfy, good driving position and the glass roof is great. So I booked the test drive.
My verdict won't make everyone happy. It has great traction and you can fire it out of a corner with no problem. It really does corner rather well in that anodyne 4wd way. The steering is nicely quick and has some feel to it as well and the brakes are great. Overall its a very pleasant place to be and fun to corner with if you like 4wd and mechanics doing it all for you. A capable gt for sure.
Now the bad stuff. The V6 brera has 260bhp but you really wouldn't know it. The car is simply too slow for its bracket, the engine makes a nice fuss and sounds good but it never really kicks and it simply isn't powerful enough for its weight. Compared to the car I have now it feels significantly slower, more conrolled certainly but overall less agile. It has better brakes but the steering in the GTV is meatier and has more feel. Crucially, the new engine does does good and Alfa like, but nothing about it compares to the old Alfa v6. It doesn't sound as good, doesn't rev as keenly and seems to have less guts despite a higher output than the old 3l.
Somebody near me has bought an alfa red brera recently, and I parked up next to it to check it out. Sorry to say it, but in comparing the two there is no contest, the GTV cup is prettier, smaller and far more sporting in looks. I really don't think I'll be buying a brera unless the GTA is drastically different. If you want a pretty hatchback that feels special then it could be the thing for you, I want a typically gorgeous Alfa sports car that shifts. I'll just have to wait till its replacement and move elsewhere in the mean time.
Mind you if I had to drive a lot for work and needed a diesel, I can't think of anthing I'd have over a black brera diesel.
I currently have a GTV cup and was looking forward to the Brera as the next car. I saw it at the motor show and my impression was that they'd turned the sleek concept into a fat boy. While still pretty, the Brera looks like a very attractive hatchback ala a3 or 147, not a sports car. I think most people would think it's a swanky golf rival rather than a tt rival. Dissapointing. In fact the brera looks exactly like a 159 with the boot cut off, which is exactly what it is. A very attractive hatch and no more.
Having said that the interior quality was great, very solid and comfy, good driving position and the glass roof is great. So I booked the test drive.
My verdict won't make everyone happy. It has great traction and you can fire it out of a corner with no problem. It really does corner rather well in that anodyne 4wd way. The steering is nicely quick and has some feel to it as well and the brakes are great. Overall its a very pleasant place to be and fun to corner with if you like 4wd and mechanics doing it all for you. A capable gt for sure.
Now the bad stuff. The V6 brera has 260bhp but you really wouldn't know it. The car is simply too slow for its bracket, the engine makes a nice fuss and sounds good but it never really kicks and it simply isn't powerful enough for its weight. Compared to the car I have now it feels significantly slower, more conrolled certainly but overall less agile. It has better brakes but the steering in the GTV is meatier and has more feel. Crucially, the new engine does does good and Alfa like, but nothing about it compares to the old Alfa v6. It doesn't sound as good, doesn't rev as keenly and seems to have less guts despite a higher output than the old 3l.
Somebody near me has bought an alfa red brera recently, and I parked up next to it to check it out. Sorry to say it, but in comparing the two there is no contest, the GTV cup is prettier, smaller and far more sporting in looks. I really don't think I'll be buying a brera unless the GTA is drastically different. If you want a pretty hatchback that feels special then it could be the thing for you, I want a typically gorgeous Alfa sports car that shifts. I'll just have to wait till its replacement and move elsewhere in the mean time.
Mind you if I had to drive a lot for work and needed a diesel, I can't think of anthing I'd have over a black brera diesel.
A fair review, thanks for this.
That's really not the case - at a casual glance they look the same, but the lower part of the front wings, the shield, and the airdam are all different. There are some pictures a couple of pages back in this thread that illustrate this.
Brera V6 - 260bhp, 1630 kilos, 162bhp/ton
GTV 3.0 V6 - 220bhp, 1415 kilos, 157bhp/ton
The diesel is the only one I've driven, so I can't comment on how the V6 feels, but I found I was travelling far faster than it 'felt' and I put that down to the fact that it's so much more refined than my GTV. It seems a lot more grown up, and that's possibly good and bad in equal measure. If it's not the car for you, then that's absolutely fair comment.
cathalm said:
In fact the brera looks exactly like a 159 with the boot cut off, which is exactly what it is.
That's really not the case - at a casual glance they look the same, but the lower part of the front wings, the shield, and the airdam are all different. There are some pictures a couple of pages back in this thread that illustrate this.
cathalm said:
The V6 brera..simply isn't powerful enough for its weight.
Brera V6 - 260bhp, 1630 kilos, 162bhp/ton
GTV 3.0 V6 - 220bhp, 1415 kilos, 157bhp/ton
The diesel is the only one I've driven, so I can't comment on how the V6 feels, but I found I was travelling far faster than it 'felt' and I put that down to the fact that it's so much more refined than my GTV. It seems a lot more grown up, and that's possibly good and bad in equal measure. If it's not the car for you, then that's absolutely fair comment.
jamieboy said:
A fair review, thanks for this.
That's really not the case - at a casual glance they look the same, but...
cathalm said:
In fact the brera looks exactly like a 159 with the boot cut off, which is exactly what it is.
That's really not the case - at a casual glance they look the same, but...
If you've got to say that, then you've lost your argument - "they look the same at casual glance", which is NOT what you want for your flagship coupe!!!
As for 'not feeling that fast'...I've driven a number of modern cars recently you could level that against...trying to decide what factors are causing it, narrowed it down to:-
1) Weight. your bhp/tonne above is telling...260bhp with less power-weight than a Clio 182!
2) Soundproofing/NVH - 'being' faster without 'feeling' it. Which to me is the wrong way around on today's camera-infested roads.
3) ECUs tweaked for emissions, causing shocking throttle response...THAT I feel is a big part of the issue...it takes a second to work itself out before reacting, so you read it as less-than-rapid performance-wise.
The V6 doesnt feel rocket sled in a staight line tis true, but lob it through some twisties, jeez, it'll re-arrange the internal organs. Also, getting it away from standstill is a much more accomplished affair than the other V6 Alfas, you can just boot it ( which is something you just can't do with the GT V6 ), it's got a set up, chasis & brakes, like no recent Alfa i can remember..... well done Alfa, a totally engaging machine 
I shall be taking the V6 to Cadwell Park in a couple of weeks, i shall report back, especially in terms of how it compares to the GT
I shall be taking the V6 to Cadwell Park in a couple of weeks, i shall report back, especially in terms of how it compares to the GT
havoc said:
If you've got to say that, then you've lost your argument - "they look the same at casual glance", which is NOT what you want for your flagship coupe!!!
I guess that's a question of personal taste - some people would rather shout while others whisper. I'd also clarify that when I say 'casual glance' I mean that if you are the type of person to notice the details of what a car actually looks like, then they're pretty evidently different.
havoc said:
As for 'not feeling that fast'...I've driven a number of modern cars recently you could level that against...trying to decide what factors are causing it, narrowed it down to:-
1) Weight. your bhp/tonne above is telling...260bhp with less power-weight than a Clio 182!
2) Soundproofing/NVH - 'being' faster without 'feeling' it. Which to me is the wrong way around on today's camera-infested roads.
3) ECUs tweaked for emissions, causing shocking throttle response...THAT I feel is a big part of the issue...it takes a second to work itself out before reacting, so you read it as less-than-rapid performance-wise.
1) Weight. your bhp/tonne above is telling...260bhp with less power-weight than a Clio 182!
2) Soundproofing/NVH - 'being' faster without 'feeling' it. Which to me is the wrong way around on today's camera-infested roads.
3) ECUs tweaked for emissions, causing shocking throttle response...THAT I feel is a big part of the issue...it takes a second to work itself out before reacting, so you read it as less-than-rapid performance-wise.
Yep, it has 3 bhp/ton less than the hot hatch, but they're such utterly different cars that I'm not sure I see the relevance. For a back-road blast, probably the Clio is a better bet. Drive from Edinburgh to London, probably the Brera.
I'd say number 2 on your list is the most relevant to the Brera - it definitely 'is' faster than it 'feels', in much the same way as a go-kart at 30 feels like you're doing 100, and an M5 at 100 feels like you're doing 50. I understand your point when you say that it's the wrong way round, but I'd say you could level that at any modern car, so I'm not sure it makes the Brera the 'joke' that has been suggested. I'd say it's economics - more people will buy a fast, comfortable, refined car than will buy an slightly faster, raw one.
Edited by jamieboy on Sunday 13th August 19:26
Jamie,
Last 3 points not really levelled at Brera directly - think you took them too personally.
I was talking about modern cars in general, where 150bhp merely feels 'adequate' nowadays (and sometimes not even that), and where you can get to license-losing speeds and still listen to every note on the stereo, without realising how fast you're actually going. Applies equally to a Fiesta ST, a 406HDi saloon, a 3-series Coupe, or to the Brera. As drivers we're losing the sensation (and perception) of speed at a time when we really should be becoming more aware of it.
As for my first point...I stand by it...you and I are car-enthusiasts, and as such are detail people. But I suspect most Alfa buyers will buy it for looks first, everything else second (that strikes me as where Alfa are pitching themselves in the market)...and in that regard too much similarity with the 159 can only be a bad thing.
Last 3 points not really levelled at Brera directly - think you took them too personally.
I was talking about modern cars in general, where 150bhp merely feels 'adequate' nowadays (and sometimes not even that), and where you can get to license-losing speeds and still listen to every note on the stereo, without realising how fast you're actually going. Applies equally to a Fiesta ST, a 406HDi saloon, a 3-series Coupe, or to the Brera. As drivers we're losing the sensation (and perception) of speed at a time when we really should be becoming more aware of it.
As for my first point...I stand by it...you and I are car-enthusiasts, and as such are detail people. But I suspect most Alfa buyers will buy it for looks first, everything else second (that strikes me as where Alfa are pitching themselves in the market)...and in that regard too much similarity with the 159 can only be a bad thing.
havoc said:
jamieboy said:
A fair review, thanks for this.
That's really not the case - at a casual glance they look the same, but...
cathalm said:
In fact the brera looks exactly like a 159 with the boot cut off, which is exactly what it is.
That's really not the case - at a casual glance they look the same, but...
If you've got to say that, then you've lost your argument - "they look the same at casual glance", which is NOT what you want for your flagship coupe!!!
I love the Brera's looks when compared to the German competition but feel exactly the same. The original proto was a big V8 luxury GT with a carbon body and that's how they should have built it. It would have made life for Aston -and tellingly, Maserati- difficult.
As a GTV replacement it just does not fit IMHO. Now more than ever a superlight sports coupe (think Italian Sagaris for TT money) with the venerable V6 is in order; a pure halo sportscar to make Alfa's name shine again but sell units in the mean time, just like the original GTV did.
The only hope now is that the GTA will really be an 'Allegirata' and that its features will trickle down the range.
Actually, good point that. 
Checking the dimensions of the proto (www.carfolio.com/specifications/models/id/?id=93676) with the street version shows that the proto was shorter, wider and in particular lower. I always thought it was much bigger than the production model, must have been those raked A-pillars. My mistake - but still like the proto better.
That said though; the local Brera launch was done at a Golf course nearby, with a 996 standing only a few meters from a red Brera. It really brought the Brera's beauty into perspective, few cars can touch it IMHO.
Checking the dimensions of the proto (www.carfolio.com/specifications/models/id/?id=93676) with the street version shows that the proto was shorter, wider and in particular lower. I always thought it was much bigger than the production model, must have been those raked A-pillars. My mistake - but still like the proto better.
That said though; the local Brera launch was done at a Golf course nearby, with a 996 standing only a few meters from a red Brera. It really brought the Brera's beauty into perspective, few cars can touch it IMHO.
jamieboy said:
A fair review, thanks for this.
That's really not the case - at a casual glance they look the same, but the lower part of the front wings, the shield, and the airdam are all different. There are some pictures a couple of pages back in this thread that illustrate this.
Brera V6 - 260bhp, 1630 kilos, 162bhp/ton
GTV 3.0 V6 - 220bhp, 1415 kilos, 157bhp/ton
The diesel is the only one I've driven, so I can't comment on how the V6 feels, but I found I was travelling far faster than it 'felt' and I put that down to the fact that it's so much more refined than my GTV. It seems a lot more grown up, and that's possibly good and bad in equal measure. If it's not the car for you, then that's absolutely fair comment.
cathalm said:
In fact the brera looks exactly like a 159 with the boot cut off, which is exactly what it is.
That's really not the case - at a casual glance they look the same, but the lower part of the front wings, the shield, and the airdam are all different. There are some pictures a couple of pages back in this thread that illustrate this.
cathalm said:
The V6 brera..simply isn't powerful enough for its weight.
Brera V6 - 260bhp, 1630 kilos, 162bhp/ton
GTV 3.0 V6 - 220bhp, 1415 kilos, 157bhp/ton
The diesel is the only one I've driven, so I can't comment on how the V6 feels, but I found I was travelling far faster than it 'felt' and I put that down to the fact that it's so much more refined than my GTV. It seems a lot more grown up, and that's possibly good and bad in equal measure. If it's not the car for you, then that's absolutely fair comment.
And yet it still is slower to 60 and 100 by some way, besides, my gtv doesnt have 220bhp it has 252 ;0)
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