Alfa 156 V6 / TS / JTD
Discussion
Hi all. Seriously considering a 156 as my next car.Always liked the look of th 156 - classy, understated very very stylish, and you seem to get a lot of car for the money. Just wondered if anyone had any advice on what model is the best to go for.
I presume there are no real issues between each of the models - TS/JTS/JTD/V6, other than fuel economy will obviously be better in the JTD.Any difference between the Veloce to Lusso spec? Better for a pre or post facelift? Do they cope with high mileage well etc, etc.....
Any advice gratefully recieved.....
I presume there are no real issues between each of the models - TS/JTS/JTD/V6, other than fuel economy will obviously be better in the JTD.Any difference between the Veloce to Lusso spec? Better for a pre or post facelift? Do they cope with high mileage well etc, etc.....
Any advice gratefully recieved.....
Just a few points to think about with 156's
Veloce's or 'sport pack' cars as they were known up to year 2000 models, have lowered and uprated suspension and 16" wheels as standard, Lusso's and Turismo's had either 15" or 16" depending on spec. Either can have 17" fitted but it's not a good ide on standard suspension as it doesn't seem to gell well.
The heavier engines like the V6's and particularly the 2.4JTD really need the Veloce suspension to prevent the front diving around to much.
Performance wise, the 2.0TS and JTS are both pretty good, the 10 Valve 2.4JTD is about on a par with these, but the 20 Valve JTD is probably as quick as a V6, almost GTA performance with good economy.
The GTA is something special though and if you are thinking of a 156, and the budget will stretch to it, give one a test.
Veloce's or 'sport pack' cars as they were known up to year 2000 models, have lowered and uprated suspension and 16" wheels as standard, Lusso's and Turismo's had either 15" or 16" depending on spec. Either can have 17" fitted but it's not a good ide on standard suspension as it doesn't seem to gell well.
The heavier engines like the V6's and particularly the 2.4JTD really need the Veloce suspension to prevent the front diving around to much.
Performance wise, the 2.0TS and JTS are both pretty good, the 10 Valve 2.4JTD is about on a par with these, but the 20 Valve JTD is probably as quick as a V6, almost GTA performance with good economy.
The GTA is something special though and if you are thinking of a 156, and the budget will stretch to it, give one a test.
velocemitch said:
Just a few points to think about with 156's
Veloce's or 'sport pack' cars as they were known up to year 2000 models, have lowered and uprated suspension and 16" wheels as standard, Lusso's and Turismo's had either 15" or 16" depending on spec. Either can have 17" fitted but it's not a good ide on standard suspension as it doesn't seem to gell well.
The heavier engines like the V6's and particularly the 2.4JTD really need the Veloce suspension to prevent the front diving around to much.
Performance wise, the 2.0TS and JTS are both pretty good, the 10 Valve 2.4JTD is about on a par with these, but the 20 Valve JTD is probably as quick as a V6, almost GTA performance with good economy.
The GTA is something special though and if you are thinking of a 156, and the budget will stretch to it, give one a test.
Veloce's or 'sport pack' cars as they were known up to year 2000 models, have lowered and uprated suspension and 16" wheels as standard, Lusso's and Turismo's had either 15" or 16" depending on spec. Either can have 17" fitted but it's not a good ide on standard suspension as it doesn't seem to gell well.
The heavier engines like the V6's and particularly the 2.4JTD really need the Veloce suspension to prevent the front diving around to much.
Performance wise, the 2.0TS and JTS are both pretty good, the 10 Valve 2.4JTD is about on a par with these, but the 20 Valve JTD is probably as quick as a V6, almost GTA performance with good economy.
The GTA is something special though and if you are thinking of a 156, and the budget will stretch to it, give one a test.
Got a 05 156 sportwagon 2.0 JTS as a daily runner(new baby arrived) and have sinced wondered about Alfa's performance claims. They claim 137mph top speed, I'd be very surprised if it would get there, from what I've experienced, 125mph is more like it. After 85 thingy bobs on the 'track' it seems to have lost all urge to accelerate. My other concern is it seems very susceptible to cross winds especially when you are at 85+ thingy bobs.
Do you think it is off tune? The car seems pretty noisy as well.
Hows your GTA at a lot of clicks on the clock in the handling department?
I haven't been on Track with any of my 156's, but I 'clocked' about 135MPH on an Autobahn in a 2.0, cant remember if it was the TS or the JTS though. There were a lot of rumours that early JTS engines were not producing the claimed 165BHP, more like 150BHP when tested. Perhaps you should give it a go on a rolling road and see what comes up, do take it with a pinch of salt though because they aren't that acurate anyway.
The GTA is great, much tighter than a standard car, but it can still get out of sorts on an undulating road. The body control on 156's is not the best to be honest but I understand it can be significantly improved with the various after market kits (I'd go for the Harvey Bailey one my self, but it's on the back burner for a while). I can't say that high speed stability on the GTA (it's a Sportwagon by the way) as ever been an issue, it feels steady enough as have my two 156 saloons. I love the 156 and the SW as cars, but I'm not blind to their faults like most modern Alfa's they are a flawed diamond, you have to live with the bad to enjoy the good.
The GTA is great, much tighter than a standard car, but it can still get out of sorts on an undulating road. The body control on 156's is not the best to be honest but I understand it can be significantly improved with the various after market kits (I'd go for the Harvey Bailey one my self, but it's on the back burner for a while). I can't say that high speed stability on the GTA (it's a Sportwagon by the way) as ever been an issue, it feels steady enough as have my two 156 saloons. I love the 156 and the SW as cars, but I'm not blind to their faults like most modern Alfa's they are a flawed diamond, you have to live with the bad to enjoy the good.
sjn2004 said:
After 85 thingy bobs on the 'track' it seems to have lost all urge to accelerate.
Sounds a bit below par. Wonder if the air flow meter is on the way out. It should have some urge left at that speed, especially with 4000 revs on the clock.
Can't say I noticed my Sportwagon was a problem in crosswinds. Are your tyre pressures all OK and tread equal right across thw width of the tyre?
sjn2004 said:
Got a 05 156 sportwagon 2.0 JTS as a daily runner(new baby arrived) and have sinced wondered about Alfa's performance claims. They claim 137mph top speed, I'd be very surprised if it would get there, from what I've experienced, 125mph is more like it. After 85 thingy bobs on the 'track' it seems to have lost all urge to accelerate. My other concern is it seems very susceptible to cross winds especially when you are at 85+ thingy bobs.
I think there is something up with it, my 2.0TS (earlier model) is quite lively at 85-ish, right at the peak of the torque curve. Would be very surprised if a decenbtJTS wasn't similar. And I have no problem with crosswinds either.
thanks for the replies.
My dad has a 156 saloon 1.8TS and thinks my 2.0JTS is no faster, like I said it seems to have no urge after 85mph. Its only an 05 plate with 6000+ miles, I think it may have not had much use for maybe a 6 month period as the intial owner died and his wife kept it until she died (the family then sold it to the Alfa dealer).
The car is a veloce running on those 20 spoke(or whatever) 16inch wheels.
My dad has a 156 saloon 1.8TS and thinks my 2.0JTS is no faster, like I said it seems to have no urge after 85mph. Its only an 05 plate with 6000+ miles, I think it may have not had much use for maybe a 6 month period as the intial owner died and his wife kept it until she died (the family then sold it to the Alfa dealer).
The car is a veloce running on those 20 spoke(or whatever) 16inch wheels.
I've owned a 156 2.5 V6 SP3 saloon (so the stiff suspension), a GTA SW, and driven the 2.0 twin spark and 2.4 jtd as well.
I love them - that's no secret (see my Autojournals entries on the GTA). I love the styling, outside and inside, and the fact it's a geniune sport saloon not some comfy old shoe with a few spoilers on it.
For me, Alfas are as much about the V6 engines as anything, they are simply superb and the best engines I've used. They are also allied to the much better 6-speed gearbox in 156's. As a result, although I could appreciate the front was a bit lighter in the twin-spark, and that less fuel was being drunk in the jtd (which was nowhere near as fast as the 2.5 flat out, let alone the GTA) for me the V6's are where it is at. They also seem to be stronger engines reliability-wise. And of course they look and sound bloody gorgeous, plus they are silly value second hand.
The post-2002 facelift interiors are far better. Quality wise I've had the off minor build issue with my second one but they seem to me to be built from decent quality bits and are far better than their reputation suggests - well ahead of the French marques on reliability, just not quite there with the Germans and especially Japanese. That said, the worst single issue I've had in 120k miles in my two 156's has been failed indicators. Not exactly a breakdown...
To drive the GTA is an entirely different animal - the steering has more feel, the damping is better (though still can be easily improved with aftermarket items), it's just more stable and together all round, and bloody quick - 15 seconds dead to 100 is not hanging about, it even beats most modern uber-hatches. It's also far better equipped, coming with all sorts from high-back electric heated leather sports seats to Bose annd sodding great 4-pot Brembos as standard.
156's are great on smooth twisty roads, and have amazing traction (thank the double wishbones). The fast steering is nice to use, and they are suprisingly good motorway cruisers. Only really crashy roads cause ride problems and can see the undertray grounding a bit (it's miles below any important stuff so just use it as a guide to slow down and don't panic). I find the GTA SW I have handles more neutrally than the saloons I've drivem, this might be all the GTA stuff (wider track, revised suspension/steering etc) but I think it's partly the better weight distribution and revised rear spring rates that the sportwagons all have. Given the tiny weight penalty, better aerodynamics, and (some think) better looks of the SW cars I'd recommend one. Despite all the press guff about the boot being smaller than the saloon (they mean below the pull-out cover) it's very practical as, seats folded, it has a big flat load bay.
Check alfaowner.com for info and enjoy!
I love them - that's no secret (see my Autojournals entries on the GTA). I love the styling, outside and inside, and the fact it's a geniune sport saloon not some comfy old shoe with a few spoilers on it.
For me, Alfas are as much about the V6 engines as anything, they are simply superb and the best engines I've used. They are also allied to the much better 6-speed gearbox in 156's. As a result, although I could appreciate the front was a bit lighter in the twin-spark, and that less fuel was being drunk in the jtd (which was nowhere near as fast as the 2.5 flat out, let alone the GTA) for me the V6's are where it is at. They also seem to be stronger engines reliability-wise. And of course they look and sound bloody gorgeous, plus they are silly value second hand.
The post-2002 facelift interiors are far better. Quality wise I've had the off minor build issue with my second one but they seem to me to be built from decent quality bits and are far better than their reputation suggests - well ahead of the French marques on reliability, just not quite there with the Germans and especially Japanese. That said, the worst single issue I've had in 120k miles in my two 156's has been failed indicators. Not exactly a breakdown...
To drive the GTA is an entirely different animal - the steering has more feel, the damping is better (though still can be easily improved with aftermarket items), it's just more stable and together all round, and bloody quick - 15 seconds dead to 100 is not hanging about, it even beats most modern uber-hatches. It's also far better equipped, coming with all sorts from high-back electric heated leather sports seats to Bose annd sodding great 4-pot Brembos as standard.
156's are great on smooth twisty roads, and have amazing traction (thank the double wishbones). The fast steering is nice to use, and they are suprisingly good motorway cruisers. Only really crashy roads cause ride problems and can see the undertray grounding a bit (it's miles below any important stuff so just use it as a guide to slow down and don't panic). I find the GTA SW I have handles more neutrally than the saloons I've drivem, this might be all the GTA stuff (wider track, revised suspension/steering etc) but I think it's partly the better weight distribution and revised rear spring rates that the sportwagons all have. Given the tiny weight penalty, better aerodynamics, and (some think) better looks of the SW cars I'd recommend one. Despite all the press guff about the boot being smaller than the saloon (they mean below the pull-out cover) it's very practical as, seats folded, it has a big flat load bay.
Check alfaowner.com for info and enjoy!
Edited by jwyatt on Tuesday 27th February 10:32
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