The Alfa T -spark engine....inherently weak?

[timmy33]

Just pondering this, as the reponse to my queries about super/turbo charging the 2.0l TS engine came back with alot of comments along the lines, of don't do it the engine is weak/bad enough already.

I'm wondering if this is the case, and if so why? It's a lump of metal, it has similar mechanical configuration to my MR2 2.0l engine, similar metal mass, twin cam, 4 pot etc. Yet MR2's are routinely turboed upto 250bhp and above.

Indeed Alfa themselves I believe offer a V6 2.0l turbo in Italy.

Just wondering.

[Wombat Rick]

If you are on about the original all alloy 8 valve Twin Spark, it's basically bulletproof.

If you are on about the more recent iron block 16 valve Twin Spark, it's not as strong as the original and does have some weak spots, but it's not inherently weak. It is however inherently badly looked after, usually in the oil checking/changing department.


The 2.0 Turbo Alfa offered in Europe was a V6 and was not related in any way to the 2.0 four pot.

[Horza]

Not an inherently weak engine. Just very liable to cam belt failure and it doesn't like being low on oil. Show me an engine that does...

It is, generally, a very strong engine. Not sure I would turbo charge anything though. I recon you're always taking a chance there with the engine/drive shafts/transmission etc.

As for the 2.0 V6, that was done in Italy to get round a very hefty tax on the lager capacity V6's.

[timmy33]

Horza said:

Not an inherently weak engine. Just very liable to cam belt failure and it doesn't like being low on oil. Show me an engine that does...

It is, generally, a very strong engine. Not sure I would turbo charge anything though. I recon you're always taking a chance there with the engine/drive shafts/transmission etc.

As for the 2.0 V6, that was done in Italy to get round a very hefty tax on the lager capacity V6's.

Ah okay.

Well my last car an MR2 had an oil habit too, I was considering getting a consignment in from Saudi to feed it. So I'm used to checking the oil on a car, infact I can't believe that people don't.

As some of you already know I have been thinking about Supercharging it, and fitting a larger capacity exhaust to let the engine breathe better at the same time.

*If* I could do this with a reasonable expectation of getting a few years fun, I do about 8k a year, of motoring from such as configuration I'd do it. I don't drive like a lunatic chav...just gentle hooning mainly, but I'd like to have some more power there.

As for the cam belt, yep, I certainly will stick to the 33k change ( the pervious owner of mine left it until 75k.....which is why it's had a new engine fitted 25k ago LOL ).

[Wombat Rick]

What about going for some new cams, exhaust and remap? Will get you more oomph perhaps without the stress of supercharging.

Autodelta in London turbocharge the Twin Spark with good results if you do want forced induction. From www.autodelta.co.uk

"Autodelta Spider J10

Launched in 1997, Autodelta's modified Alfa Romeo Spider sports specifically designed front spoiler, side skirts and roll-hoops. Re-worked cams and subtle chipping increase the original 2.0 Twin Spark engine's power to 175 bhp.

EVO versions are powered by a 2.0 turbo unit, which delivers 220 bhp, and feature a front spoiler incorporating air intakes, whilst the rear - with new, lower aprons - houses a quad-pipe exhaust.

The custom-built Autodelta detachable hardtop also adds all-season practicality to this fabulous Alfa Romeo sports car."

[timmy33]

Wombat Rick said:

What about going for some new cams, exhaust and remap? Will get you more oomph perhaps without the stress of supercharging.

Autodelta in London turbocharge the Twin Spark with good results if you do want forced induction. From www.autodelta.co.uk

"Autodelta Spider J10

Launched in 1997, Autodelta's modified Alfa Romeo Spider sports specifically designed front spoiler, side skirts and roll-hoops. Re-worked cams and subtle chipping increase the original 2.0 Twin Spark engine's power to 175 bhp.

EVO versions are powered by a 2.0 turbo unit, which delivers 220 bhp, and feature a front spoiler incorporating air intakes, whilst the rear - with new, lower aprons - houses a quad-pipe exhaust.

The custom-built Autodelta detachable hardtop also adds all-season practicality to this fabulous Alfa Romeo sports car."

Do you know anyone who has had this done? Either option? Would be great to get some feedback from someone who has

[Wombat Rick]

Alfaowner would be your best place to ask that. I'm sure there will be someone on there with that engine spec - might not be in a Spider but it doesn't make any odds. There was also a guy in the AROC with it in a 166 I seem to remember.

[timmy33]

Wombat Rick said:

Alfaowner would be your best place to ask that. I'm sure there will be someone on there with that engine spec - might not be in a Spider but it doesn't make any odds. There was also a guy in the AROC with it in a 166 I seem to remember.

Cheers will ask around.

As I've said before, I won't be tracking the car, or driving like a loon all of the time. So I'm slightly bemused as to why a forced induction kit, properly setup, should blow the engine up anymore than any other engine?

I remember me and my brothers used to get through turbo charged renaults at a rate of about 1 a year...but they were very tuned up....and we were young and daft

[exgtt]

I think all the cambelt/tentioner issues came to light because Alfa wanted 72k replacement intervals to appeal to the big company leasing peoples, when in reality the belt/tentioner cant really be trusted above 35k. Change it before this period, keep the oil topped up (it likes a drink and wont tolerate low on the dipstick or incorrect oil) and you should be ok. I don't think it's the strongest in the world but it's certainly good for 150k if you respect the above. Ps Variators can get noisy, but this shouldn't damage the engine itself, when they get really bad you just loose top end power - replace it when the cambelt needs doing. Or alternativly get a V6! Bombproof!!

[timmy33]

exgtt said:

I think all the cambelt/tentioner issues came to light because Alfa wanted 72k replacement intervals to appeal to the big company leasing peoples, when in reality the belt/tentioner cant really be trusted above 35k. Change it before this period, keep the oil topped up (it likes a drink and wont tolerate low on the dipstick or incorrect oil) and you should be ok. I don't think it's the strongest in the world but it's certainly good for 150k if you respect the above. Ps Variators can get noisy, but this shouldn't damage the engine itself, when they get really bad you just loose top end power - replace it when the cambelt needs doing. Or alternativly get a V6! Bombproof!!

Indeed, though I'd like something a little different. I realise that supercharging a 2.0l Alfa may not be the most sensible, or even practical way to proceed. But then if I wanted a sensible, practical powerful daily drive I'd be bumming around in a 3.0l Mondeo Ghia.

[chauffeur]

tuning the TS is possible but you are better of buying a v6 or JTD

[exgtt]

chauffeur said:

tuning the TS is possible but you are better of buying a v6 or JTD

I have a 156 v6 and am serviously thinking about going down the JTD route. A possible 180bhp and loads of torque & 40mpg sounds good.

[chauffeur]

exgtt said:

chauffeur said:

tuning the TS is possible but you are better of buying a v6 or JTD

I have a 156 v6 and am serviously thinking about going down the JTD route. A possible 180bhp and loads of torque & 40mpg sounds good.

I highly recommend the 2.4 JTD

I have a 156 2.4JTD Sportwagon re-mapped to 200 bhp and 300 lbft
More usable power than the v6 and twice the fuel economy.

She is now on 107k miles and still on the original clutch so now worries about the drivetrain handling the extra torque.

[jezb]

My 156 2.0 has C&B cams, gta intake, ragazon exhaust and unichip mapped on a rolling road.

It shows approx 184 - 188 bhp at the crank.

I have owned a couple of 156 2.5's and much prefer my t.spark.