RE: 405bhp Alfa GT!
Discussion
jwyatt said:
I would expect this to be a lot better than the doubters would think.
The 156-based cars all have double wishbone front suspension strong on traction and short on torquesteer as standard. The GT has the wider GTA-style track/steering/redesigned suspension, and throw some decent dampers, suspension settings, and a good LSD at it and the result should be very tidy.
I know someone that runs a 156GTA that is visually standard but has the same 3.7 conversion and supercharger as the car above, plus Autodelta coilover kit, LSD, etc. See a track vid from him here - it's a twisty Irish track not really suited to a powerful heavy car, but watch the number of Elise variants and modern 911's he overtakes - and he is the first to admit he's no racing driver:
http://videos.streetfire.net/vide...e
The 156-based cars all have double wishbone front suspension strong on traction and short on torquesteer as standard. The GT has the wider GTA-style track/steering/redesigned suspension, and throw some decent dampers, suspension settings, and a good LSD at it and the result should be very tidy.
I know someone that runs a 156GTA that is visually standard but has the same 3.7 conversion and supercharger as the car above, plus Autodelta coilover kit, LSD, etc. See a track vid from him here - it's a twisty Irish track not really suited to a powerful heavy car, but watch the number of Elise variants and modern 911's he overtakes - and he is the first to admit he's no racing driver:
http://videos.streetfire.net/vide...e
If that is TB's off Alfaowner, i don't think it has the 3.7 conversion, but has a Supercharger, i saw her at the AROC track day last year.
There are lots of vid's like this one on my GTA forum.
There is also a vid link of a 147 GTA against BMW /Scooby/Golf/Audi etc on track in Japan, guess which one sets the fasted lap time.
Stu
He deffo has the 3.7 litre conversion as well. I think he started that way then supercharged it. Anyway, I've discussed the 3.7 litre non-supercharge conversion with him at some length, cams, etc - I'm pretty sure he has it!
As for people saying the 147GTA is a "mess" as standard - well, the Focus RS was pretty revered, and Evo reckoned the GTA handles better. And the R32 is pretty well thought of - but even alfa-hating Autoca reckoned the GTA destroyed the Mk1 R32 in the handling stakes. I think it's fair to say powerful FWD cars don't suit everyone's driving style, but personally I love the handling of mine - and as someone who raced RWD cars I ought to be a "driven wheels" snob really... Of all the reviews of the 156/146GTA and 3.2GT (all very similar) I concur most with these ones personally:
www.carenthusiast.com/20021205_roadtest_alfaromeo156gta.html
www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/cargrouptests/31758/power_crazed.html
I'd prefer RWD or 4WD for sure - but not with the massive performance/character deficit that a similarly priced RWD car has to the quicker FWD stuff.
On track, RWD rules. On road, you can go bloody fast with FWD and get a lot of pleasure out of it - the driven wheels only really affect corner exit after all - whatever some bores might say.
As for people saying the 147GTA is a "mess" as standard - well, the Focus RS was pretty revered, and Evo reckoned the GTA handles better. And the R32 is pretty well thought of - but even alfa-hating Autoca reckoned the GTA destroyed the Mk1 R32 in the handling stakes. I think it's fair to say powerful FWD cars don't suit everyone's driving style, but personally I love the handling of mine - and as someone who raced RWD cars I ought to be a "driven wheels" snob really... Of all the reviews of the 156/146GTA and 3.2GT (all very similar) I concur most with these ones personally:
www.carenthusiast.com/20021205_roadtest_alfaromeo156gta.html
www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/cargrouptests/31758/power_crazed.html
I'd prefer RWD or 4WD for sure - but not with the massive performance/character deficit that a similarly priced RWD car has to the quicker FWD stuff.
On track, RWD rules. On road, you can go bloody fast with FWD and get a lot of pleasure out of it - the driven wheels only really affect corner exit after all - whatever some bores might say.
That is true - it's a more dull car in looks and sound. It's a tool for a job and no more.
Would be good to have everything in one car - Italian style and sound, with german engineering and 4WD.
ps
I will add imo if it makes you feel better. But it's so obvious I doubt many would argue! I have no axe to grind, I just comment on the cars I've owned. All are good and bad, but in different areas.
Would be good to have everything in one car - Italian style and sound, with german engineering and 4WD.
ps
I will add imo if it makes you feel better. But it's so obvious I doubt many would argue! I have no axe to grind, I just comment on the cars I've owned. All are good and bad, but in different areas.
When Autocar - easily the most anti-Alfa UK magazine - ran a group test including the 147 GTA and the first R32 they said the GTA beat the Golf in every dynamic area. I think they were forgetting traction... But still, they made the point very strongly, and added character and (due to the immense weight of the R32 and not particularly close gearing) performance to the GTA's side as well. They were scathing of the R32 in every single dyanamic aspect - which is why I don't see it as such a forgone conclusion.
Autocar reckoned the Focus RS was/is the best hot hatch by far - and Evo rated the GTA above that in the handling stakes (one of my links above). I'm sure you mean what you say but in my book there is far more to a car - even to the enthusiast - than on-the-limit handling, and even there powerful FWD cars are often knocked by people who just want to seem trendy and cool and support RWD, even if they wouldn't know the limit or oversteer if it bit their leg off. I'm not saying this applies to you, but there are an awful lot of "FWD can't be fun" and "all FWD cars understeer" bores out there. The driven wheels only affect one phase of cornering - the exit (and an LSD can do so much for corner exit traction) - and generally 4WD and FWD cars handle very similarly, plus most modern RWD cars have electronics on them that owners can't/won't switch off. ... Most people just don't seem to realise that weight transfer caused by even gentle acceleration/deceleration is what affects a car's handling bias on the limit, NOT the driven wheels. The weight transfers the same way regardless of which wheels are driven - only through ham-fisted breaking of traction with excessive throttle input do the driven wheels come into play.
I'd rather a high-performance FWD car with loads of character that turns in and grips well, and just requires a bit of throttle modulation on corner exit, to some of the 4WD cars I've driven thatm frankly, demanded very little of the driver. A smooth driver can get a huge amount out of a good FWD car - only the most ham-fisted with the throttle would honestly be limited by FWD.
On road, that is, on track it's another matter - but we're talking about the road here, and road and track capabilities almost never mix well.
Autocar reckoned the Focus RS was/is the best hot hatch by far - and Evo rated the GTA above that in the handling stakes (one of my links above). I'm sure you mean what you say but in my book there is far more to a car - even to the enthusiast - than on-the-limit handling, and even there powerful FWD cars are often knocked by people who just want to seem trendy and cool and support RWD, even if they wouldn't know the limit or oversteer if it bit their leg off. I'm not saying this applies to you, but there are an awful lot of "FWD can't be fun" and "all FWD cars understeer" bores out there. The driven wheels only affect one phase of cornering - the exit (and an LSD can do so much for corner exit traction) - and generally 4WD and FWD cars handle very similarly, plus most modern RWD cars have electronics on them that owners can't/won't switch off. ... Most people just don't seem to realise that weight transfer caused by even gentle acceleration/deceleration is what affects a car's handling bias on the limit, NOT the driven wheels. The weight transfers the same way regardless of which wheels are driven - only through ham-fisted breaking of traction with excessive throttle input do the driven wheels come into play.
I'd rather a high-performance FWD car with loads of character that turns in and grips well, and just requires a bit of throttle modulation on corner exit, to some of the 4WD cars I've driven thatm frankly, demanded very little of the driver. A smooth driver can get a huge amount out of a good FWD car - only the most ham-fisted with the throttle would honestly be limited by FWD.
On road, that is, on track it's another matter - but we're talking about the road here, and road and track capabilities almost never mix well.
Edited by jwyatt on Tuesday 15th May 16:30
I hope this vid works for you, it's TB on track with his GTA
http://videos.streetfire.net/video/cd
Not bad for a well sorted FWD car.
Stu
http://videos.streetfire.net/video/cd
Not bad for a well sorted FWD car.
Stu
sjn2004 said:
KUB3 said:
Well I can only comment as an owner of an R32, GTA and S3. Others may have more insight gleaned from a quick magazine article 
You're assuming everybody believes you owned a Gta, but this is the internet where every other person is a millionaire.
You are joking, surely. In fact that's one of the most pathetic things I've heard. It's a mid twenties hatchback, not a supercar.
If you must know mine was one of the first, in deep blue, sold to a female PH'er, after six months use while there were still waiting lists, so I could buy the just released 111R. Of course you probably question whether I had that too, so your free to ask Wilson's in Romford. Would you like dates and reg numbers to run an HPI?
Edited by KUB3 on Wednesday 16th May 13:56
KUB3 said:
sjn2004 said:
KUB3 said:
Well I can only comment as an owner of an R32, GTA and S3. Others may have more insight gleaned from a quick magazine article
You're assuming everybody believes you owned a Gta, but this is the internet where every other person is a millionaire.
You are joking, surely. In fact that's one of the most pathetic things I've heard. It's a mid twenties hatchback, not a supercar.
If you must know mine was one of the first, in deep blue, sold to a female PH'er, after six months use while there were still waiting lists, so I could buy the just released 111R. Of course you probably question whether I had that too, so your free to ask Wilson's in Romford. Would you like dates and reg numbers to run an HPI?
Edited by KUB3 on Wednesday 16th May 13:56
My point is that the web is full of fanboys making all sorts of silly claims, therefore people are more likely to believe what they read in a magazine rather than the web.
jellison said:
Bloody Stupid - I have this power with the power going to the right end - Spot on.
Alfa are knackered my being owned by Fiat and not be allowed RWD (unless limited edition).
Loved my GTV6 (RWD - Bloody Awesome Engine powering the right end!)
Alfa are knackered my being owned by Fiat and not be allowed RWD (unless limited edition).
Loved my GTV6 (RWD - Bloody Awesome Engine powering the right end!)
How did Alfa manage to win the touring car championship with FWD vs Rwd?
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