RE: 405bhp Alfa GT!
Discussion
jellison said:
I presumed we mean't BTCC.
Either way these toy cars in s2000 spec only make about 280bhp and with slicks and trick diffs have no problem getting that to a smooth race track.
Try adding another 125bhp and they would be un driveable and the RWD would spank them.
THERE IS A LIMIT.....
For the Road it is about 240 - 250bhp - look at that 3.2 147 think - Laughable Torque steering great soundsing pointless car.
Either way these toy cars in s2000 spec only make about 280bhp and with slicks and trick diffs have no problem getting that to a smooth race track.
Try adding another 125bhp and they would be un driveable and the RWD would spank them.
THERE IS A LIMIT.....
For the Road it is about 240 - 250bhp - look at that 3.2 147 think - Laughable Torque steering great soundsing pointless car.
Have you actually driven one?
jellison said:
I have had a 250bhp fwd motor or two (nice for towing the RWD racers!) - fine with the TC on - utterly ridiculous with it off! An I hate non mechanical driver aids
To be honest it sounds like you need some driver training. I've had a GTV 3.0(no TC) for 6 years and spun the wheels on about 5 occasions.
Sorry it's ASR on a GTA, i posted off a long night shift.
Buy the way, James Thompson has just won race 1 & 2 in the WTCC in his 156, not bad for a FWD car.
www.fiawtcc.com/
Stu
Me at Donny
Buy the way, James Thompson has just won race 1 & 2 in the WTCC in his 156, not bad for a FWD car.
www.fiawtcc.com/
Stu
Me at Donny
I can always shut up the less knowledgeable of the "FWD is bad, RWD is good, regardless of other factors" brigage by simply pulling out of a side junction in first and flooring it through 1st and 2nd in my car with no wheelspin and with ASR off. FWD becomes limiting on a track but even then traction is impressive and the other characteristics - brakes, turn-in, grip, etc just as important.
I say it again - it's not ideal, but it can be made to work far better than people's preconceptions allow for. I have issues with the driven wheels very, very rarely - only when cornering utterly on the limit and wanting early power application to exit a corner. Even then the delay is tiny and having to actually drive the car more pleasurable than 4WD's total traction, to me. Balance against that the sheer performance of the car - 60-100 distinctly quicker than a scooby WRX (in fact the same as the pre-2.5 litre STi), which I use more than I need mega-blasting corner exits, and for the money it's a great compromise.
The fact the new, permanent rear-baised 4WD system and chassis in the Brera/159 is so strong (co-designed with Saab) and can take the 350bhp-odd of the Autodelta conversion does tempt me, however, more than the idea of a 3.7 litre conversion to my GTA. 350bhp would be anough to have even 4WD working for it's money. I just wish my engine was in the Brera - and that it went on a diet. It's a very striking car to look at, and rare, the beauty of Alfas.
I say it again - it's not ideal, but it can be made to work far better than people's preconceptions allow for. I have issues with the driven wheels very, very rarely - only when cornering utterly on the limit and wanting early power application to exit a corner. Even then the delay is tiny and having to actually drive the car more pleasurable than 4WD's total traction, to me. Balance against that the sheer performance of the car - 60-100 distinctly quicker than a scooby WRX (in fact the same as the pre-2.5 litre STi), which I use more than I need mega-blasting corner exits, and for the money it's a great compromise.
The fact the new, permanent rear-baised 4WD system and chassis in the Brera/159 is so strong (co-designed with Saab) and can take the 350bhp-odd of the Autodelta conversion does tempt me, however, more than the idea of a 3.7 litre conversion to my GTA. 350bhp would be anough to have even 4WD working for it's money. I just wish my engine was in the Brera - and that it went on a diet. It's a very striking car to look at, and rare, the beauty of Alfas.
When I can get 350bhp in an Alfetta GTV (www.alexjupemotorsport.co.uk), I can live with the rust and rattles and lousy interior, and live without a 350bhp Brera.
FWD is a perfectly capable layout, and it can be fun, and it can be adjustable, but somehow I can't imagine that the Alfetta's steering would be anywhere near as pure, or detailed, or informative, or just plain pleasurable, if the car had been fwd or 4wd. No fwd car I've ever driven has come close, even at walking pace, never mind when pressing on. Come to think of it, no other rwd car has either.
FWD is a perfectly capable layout, and it can be fun, and it can be adjustable, but somehow I can't imagine that the Alfetta's steering would be anywhere near as pure, or detailed, or informative, or just plain pleasurable, if the car had been fwd or 4wd. No fwd car I've ever driven has come close, even at walking pace, never mind when pressing on. Come to think of it, no other rwd car has either.
cirvy said:
I always had to hang on for my life in my old GT V6 when barrelling down a nugetty B road, it used to torque steer & tramline like a b@stard
Always made us laugh though.
Brera V6 does nothing of the sort, it weighs so much that it flattens all the lumps out of the worst of B roads
By Old you mean Old to you and the Horrible FWD GTV (So not that old or the Real GTV). Glad to see you have moved on and now drive an over powered RWD Plastic Caneo. You will be Racing next...Always made us laugh though.
Brera V6 does nothing of the sort, it weighs so much that it flattens all the lumps out of the worst of B roads
jellison said:
cirvy said:
I always had to hang on for my life in my old GT V6 when barrelling down a nugetty B road, it used to torque steer & tramline like a b@stard
Always made us laugh though.
Brera V6 does nothing of the sort, it weighs so much that it flattens all the lumps out of the worst of B roads
By Old you mean Old to you and the Horrible FWD GTV (So not that old or the Real GTV). Glad to see you have moved on and now drive an over powered RWD Plastic Caneo. You will be Racing next...Always made us laugh though.
Brera V6 does nothing of the sort, it weighs so much that it flattens all the lumps out of the worst of B roads
jellison said:
cirvy said:
I did mean the GT, a great but flawed car, quite rapid too
Was presuming you mean the FWD'er (Fiat Tipo with a nice engine a smart suit and subframe mounted rear suspension).
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