BE WARNED - ALFA WARRENTY AND BUILD ISSUES
Discussion
PWIG
I'd be very careful with your use of the word grey import. Last time I checked EU law The UK and Italy and some other places were all included in a little document know as FREE TRADE.
Since you are speaking on behalf of ALFA UK when you use the term grey import - I think you'd be best running this past your legal dept. first!!!
Alfa as a company has to provide customers with the same level of product quality anywhere in the EU. From what your saying this clearly isnt the case - and from my understanding this is a breach of EU trade law.
Having said this i'm sure you'll start ur responce with 'you clearly dont know/understand...'
I look forward to what you have to say.
PS is alfa aware of this thread offically?
I'd be very careful with your use of the word grey import. Last time I checked EU law The UK and Italy and some other places were all included in a little document know as FREE TRADE.
Since you are speaking on behalf of ALFA UK when you use the term grey import - I think you'd be best running this past your legal dept. first!!!
Alfa as a company has to provide customers with the same level of product quality anywhere in the EU. From what your saying this clearly isnt the case - and from my understanding this is a breach of EU trade law.
Having said this i'm sure you'll start ur responce with 'you clearly dont know/understand...'
I look forward to what you have to say.
PS is alfa aware of this thread offically?
jacobyte said:
r1ch1e
The latest Alfa cutomer mag covers the extra steps that Alfa GB now go through for quality control. This (I believe) is what pwig is alluding to.
If the independent importers also want to go through those extra steps to ensure improved quality, then it's up to them, not Alfa.
but a decent car should not need them.The latest Alfa cutomer mag covers the extra steps that Alfa GB now go through for quality control. This (I believe) is what pwig is alluding to.
If the independent importers also want to go through those extra steps to ensure improved quality, then it's up to them, not Alfa.
Alfa UK represent, and are owned by, AR italy.
They should have said "sorry for F
king up your car sir"and fixed it under warranty and passed the cost on to the factory under warranty.
Are AR saying they build cars to 2 different standards? 1 for the rest of the world and 1 for the UK?
If not then all cars are the same and not paying for an AR to be fixed under warranty in the EU speaks volumes about AR as a company.
Moral of the story?
Don't buy Italian.
r1ch1e_uk said:
PWIG
I'd be very careful with your use of the word grey import. Last time I checked EU law The UK and Italy and some other places were all included in a little document know as FREE TRADE.
Since you are speaking on behalf of ALFA UK when you use the term grey import - I think you'd be best running this past your legal dept. first!!!
Alfa as a company has to provide customers with the same level of product quality anywhere in the EU. From what your saying this clearly isnt the case - and from my understanding this is a breach of EU trade law.
Having said this i'm sure you'll start ur responce with 'you clearly dont know/understand...'
I look forward to what you have to say.
PS is alfa aware of this thread offically?
Ok is 'car registered outside the UK first' acceptable? (serious question)I'd be very careful with your use of the word grey import. Last time I checked EU law The UK and Italy and some other places were all included in a little document know as FREE TRADE.
Since you are speaking on behalf of ALFA UK when you use the term grey import - I think you'd be best running this past your legal dept. first!!!
Alfa as a company has to provide customers with the same level of product quality anywhere in the EU. From what your saying this clearly isnt the case - and from my understanding this is a breach of EU trade law.
Having said this i'm sure you'll start ur responce with 'you clearly dont know/understand...'
I look forward to what you have to say.
PS is alfa aware of this thread offically?
jacobyte said:
r1ch1e
The latest Alfa cutomer mag covers the extra steps that Alfa GB now go through for quality control. This (I believe) is what pwig is alluding to.
If the independent importers also want to go through those extra steps to ensure improved quality, then it's up to them, not Alfa.
Yes this is what I was talking about.The latest Alfa cutomer mag covers the extra steps that Alfa GB now go through for quality control. This (I believe) is what pwig is alluding to.
If the independent importers also want to go through those extra steps to ensure improved quality, then it's up to them, not Alfa.
Alfa Guys.
Lets take a step back from all of this for just a minute
I know you want to imporve your image in the UK - face facts if you ran a poll in any high street I think we all know what the responce would be.
The fact that there are some, like me, who can see through this and are willing to buy, should be a source of encouragement for ALFA to help - after all, however that car arrived its still an alfa GT.
In my case I've found Alfa to be nothing more than a disruptive company, not willing to help, and has caused me major stress. I've spoken to BMW, Vovlo, and Audi owners who all imported cars, and in one instance had a similar problem. Needless to say the car was fixed by the manufactuer immediately.
Alfa guys, just ask yourself, is all of this worth the £625 repair cost HR quoted? £625 to repair a car, AND give a new, young customer, a long lasting view of a company, who was very interested in buying a 159, and has the opportunity to influence friends and family.
Instead you are simily confirming what most people told me before i bought the car - Alfa have shoddy workmanship, and poor levels of customer service, and I would add simply bicker about such a small issue.
Well done guys.
Out of interest go to google and type in Alfa Warrenty (miss spelt I know) - is this what you really want?
£625. Enough said.
Go on PWIG. Bicker Bicker Bicker Bicker.
Lets take a step back from all of this for just a minute
I know you want to imporve your image in the UK - face facts if you ran a poll in any high street I think we all know what the responce would be.
The fact that there are some, like me, who can see through this and are willing to buy, should be a source of encouragement for ALFA to help - after all, however that car arrived its still an alfa GT.
In my case I've found Alfa to be nothing more than a disruptive company, not willing to help, and has caused me major stress. I've spoken to BMW, Vovlo, and Audi owners who all imported cars, and in one instance had a similar problem. Needless to say the car was fixed by the manufactuer immediately.
Alfa guys, just ask yourself, is all of this worth the £625 repair cost HR quoted? £625 to repair a car, AND give a new, young customer, a long lasting view of a company, who was very interested in buying a 159, and has the opportunity to influence friends and family.
Instead you are simily confirming what most people told me before i bought the car - Alfa have shoddy workmanship, and poor levels of customer service, and I would add simply bicker about such a small issue.
Well done guys.
Out of interest go to google and type in Alfa Warrenty (miss spelt I know) - is this what you really want?
£625. Enough said.
Go on PWIG. Bicker Bicker Bicker Bicker.
Edited by r1ch1e_uk on Sunday 3rd June 09:11
r1ch1e_uk said:
Instead you are simily confirming what most people told me before i bought the car - Alfa have shoddy workmanship, and poor levels of customer service.
I think 'shoddy workmanship' might be a bit strong, but Alfa is aware that they have problems - that's why they have introduced this additional QC step and pruned the poorest dealers to improve customer service.You made a choice to shop outside the official ARUK channels to save some cash, so your car didn't get the additional QC step. Your supplying dealer also missed the fault with your car during the PDI that I assume they carried it, but they're not an official Alfa UK dealer, so I don't think you can really grumble too much.
Like I said before, in an ideal world every car from every marque would be perfect when it rolled off the production line, but they're not. ARUK are trying to address these, but because you went outside ARUK to buy the car, you haven't benefitted from the steps they're taking.
Hope you get your car sorted out, though.
Edited by jamieboy on Sunday 3rd June 11:56
odyssey2200 said:
jacobyte said:
The latest Alfa cutomer mag covers the extra steps that Alfa GB now go through for quality control. This (I believe) is what pwig is alluding to.
If the independent importers also want to go through those extra steps to ensure improved quality, then it's up to them, not Alfa.
but a decent car should not need them.If the independent importers also want to go through those extra steps to ensure improved quality, then it's up to them, not Alfa.
You should be happy that the company is making the extra effort to improve quality and customer service.
odyssey2200 said:
Moral of the story?
Don't buy Italian.
Don't buy Italian.
The moral of the story is: if you're going to buy outside the main dealer network to save a few quid, you should ensure that the independent company goes through the same QC steps as Alfa GB. Caveat emptor.
Its called Free Trade and when Block Excemption is all cleared up you could, in theory end up buying your car from Sainsburys or Quik save.
the franchised system in the UK was deemed un acceptable under EU law a few years ago.
So how are AR gonna cope then?
An AR car sould leave the factory right and have a pan european warranty in every EU mamber state.
Because your car went to an Itallian dealer then a british dealer then to the Punter does not and cannot legally release AR and its subsidiaries from its obligations and responsibilities.
Are AR implying that someone else fitted the wing incorrectly?
It left the factory that way and would have cost AR GB and AR italy to have it put right in the UK QC centre or at a dealer anyway.
So why don't they accept that they builtthe car wrong and support a customer who, at the end of the day is keeping Italians employed and supporting their marque?
the franchised system in the UK was deemed un acceptable under EU law a few years ago.
So how are AR gonna cope then?
An AR car sould leave the factory right and have a pan european warranty in every EU mamber state.
Because your car went to an Itallian dealer then a british dealer then to the Punter does not and cannot legally release AR and its subsidiaries from its obligations and responsibilities.
Are AR implying that someone else fitted the wing incorrectly?
It left the factory that way and would have cost AR GB and AR italy to have it put right in the UK QC centre or at a dealer anyway.
So why don't they accept that they builtthe car wrong and support a customer who, at the end of the day is keeping Italians employed and supporting their marque?
odyssey2200 said:
Are AR implying that someone else fitted the wing incorrectly?
A good point, which is very pertinent to this thread. I reiterate my point above - if the indy dealer had QC'd better, they would have corrected it before the customer received the vehicle.However...
The customer's interface is with "Alfa Romeo", irrespective of whether it's via a franchise or independent. This is what gives Alfa their long-term reputation. If the independent in question wants to maintain a good relationship for the benefit of both the customer's satisfaction and long-term brand buy-in, they should fix it for nothing, and with a smile (after all, it's not the customer's fault), then lobby Alfa Romeo to get its act together. Or sell BMWs instead.
Euroboy,
3 weeks in transit seems very long - my worry for you is that the extra process in bristol has meant a re build - i'd check the car very carefully (ideally with a friend) before taking ownership. Rememebr the notes on this thread - it appears alfa uk has told dealers to cut the warrenty claim down. Check everything!
And then demand a reduction for the time delay!!!
3 weeks in transit seems very long - my worry for you is that the extra process in bristol has meant a re build - i'd check the car very carefully (ideally with a friend) before taking ownership. Rememebr the notes on this thread - it appears alfa uk has told dealers to cut the warrenty claim down. Check everything!
And then demand a reduction for the time delay!!!
r1ch1e_uk said:
Rememebr the notes on this thread - it appears alfa uk has told dealers to cut the warrenty claim down. Check everything!
Check everything is good advice - quoting Christopher Nicoll again, he says "Yes, there was a problem with ... Alfa's warranty policy being highly restrictive. Now we give a 3-year unlimited-mileage warranty, plus we're far more generous with goodwill payments".This sounds like someone who is trying to improve Alfa's position in the UK - bear in mind that there might be some people posting here who, for whatever business reason, would prefer Alfa's position to be weaker and decide for yourself who to believe.
Jamieboy, hope you are not referring to me when you say: “bear in mind that there might be some people posting here who, for whatever business reason, would prefer Alfa's position to be weaker and decide for yourself who to believe.
This thread was started by my customer that disgracefully can't get work carried out under warranty as he should be able to.
In you post you quote Christopher Nicoll: "Yes, there was a problem with ... Alfa's warranty policy being highly restrictive. Now we give a 3-year unlimited-mileage warranty, plus we're far more generous with goodwill payments".
If this is the case why is this car not getting sorted under warranty?
The cars we sell are exactly the same as those sold though the UK dealer net work and according to EU law should be treated equally.
This thread was started by my customer that disgracefully can't get work carried out under warranty as he should be able to.
In you post you quote Christopher Nicoll: "Yes, there was a problem with ... Alfa's warranty policy being highly restrictive. Now we give a 3-year unlimited-mileage warranty, plus we're far more generous with goodwill payments".
If this is the case why is this car not getting sorted under warranty?
The cars we sell are exactly the same as those sold though the UK dealer net work and according to EU law should be treated equally.
Edited by Big Ned on Monday 4th June 10:21
r1ch1e_uk said:
Pwig said:
r1ch1e_uk said:
PWIG
Ok is 'car registered outside the UK first' acceptable? (serious question)
No. What you are saying is that Alfa have two build standards. That is wrong.Ok is 'car registered outside the UK first' acceptable? (serious question)
are you seriously saying it isnt acceptable????????
Edited by r1ch1e_uk on Sunday 3rd June 09:09
Our cars are not registered out side the UK before our customer is registered.
Our cars are new at first registration and our customer is the first registered keeper and if any one does an HPi check on the car it does not come up as an import.
Also Pwig why have you removed your name from the public profile, it is because you don’t want any one at your place of work or Alfa UK to know about this tread?
You have been asked whether you work at Mangoletsi and you failed to answer the question, why is that?
I know where you work.
Ned
Big Ned said:
The cars we sell are exactly the same as those sold though the UK dealer net work and according to EU law should be treated equally.
You seem to sell a 147 Blackline which does not seem to be available from a UK dealer, and similarly you sell a 147 TI which I believe was only available as a limited edition model from Alfa UK about 12 months ago.Which UK models are these exactly the same as?
You seem to offer good value, and I'm certainly not suggesting that the cars you supply are in any way inferior to those supplied via an official Alfa dealer. It's just that ARUK apparently have this new scheme in place where they provide a pre-PDI service which would hopefully catch things like a poorly fitted wing before the car gets to the supplying dealer in case the dealer missed it during their PDI, which seems to be what has happened this time.
The OP seems to have been faced with a £600 bill for something that should have been picked up by the supplying dealer, which isn't good. But he's already saved £8000 by buying from an unofficial discount importer, and he also says Alfa UK 'paid a gesture of goodwill' and that the official dealer has offered to repair the car at a discount. Bearing in mind that neither the official dealer nor Alfa UK have seen a single pound of his money so far, it doesn't sound to me like he's had too bad a result.
Edited by jamieboy on Monday 4th June 13:14
Hi Jamie
I tried to explain this to before, with the 147 Ti, know you have one yourself and they are a really good spec car. It is up to Alfa UK how they offer to spec there cars, with the Ti they chose to make it a limited edition of 200 car and only Alfa Red, Metallic Black or Silver and no other options could be added. I ordered my Ti pack cars with the addition of winter pack and comfort pack and in any colour offered it the Alfa Romeo range.
We sold a lot of them in Stromboli Grey with Red or Black leather, we could also add any other extras our customers wanted like Connect nav+ for example.
As for the 147 Blackline I have one here in stock, Alfa UK chose not to offer this model in this country, I like it and think we will sell a few, if some one were to buy one of these it would be a very rare car. www.autolusso.co.uk/alfa_147.htm it is nice to be able to offer something different.
I can order our cars to what ever specification our customer needs, it is very important when ordering cars for stock they are 100% specification. Our GT’s are full UK specification but when I order them I load them up with extras. www.autolusso.co.uk/alfa_gt.htm
If I have a customer that wants something really different we can do it, we do some cars for export where the customer wants left hand drive. We sell some of our GT’s to the service men in Germany and they want right hand drive with left hand drive lights and fog lights. What I am trying to say is that we have more flexibility than a UK dealer.
Ned
I tried to explain this to before, with the 147 Ti, know you have one yourself and they are a really good spec car. It is up to Alfa UK how they offer to spec there cars, with the Ti they chose to make it a limited edition of 200 car and only Alfa Red, Metallic Black or Silver and no other options could be added. I ordered my Ti pack cars with the addition of winter pack and comfort pack and in any colour offered it the Alfa Romeo range.
We sold a lot of them in Stromboli Grey with Red or Black leather, we could also add any other extras our customers wanted like Connect nav+ for example.
As for the 147 Blackline I have one here in stock, Alfa UK chose not to offer this model in this country, I like it and think we will sell a few, if some one were to buy one of these it would be a very rare car. www.autolusso.co.uk/alfa_147.htm it is nice to be able to offer something different.
I can order our cars to what ever specification our customer needs, it is very important when ordering cars for stock they are 100% specification. Our GT’s are full UK specification but when I order them I load them up with extras. www.autolusso.co.uk/alfa_gt.htm
If I have a customer that wants something really different we can do it, we do some cars for export where the customer wants left hand drive. We sell some of our GT’s to the service men in Germany and they want right hand drive with left hand drive lights and fog lights. What I am trying to say is that we have more flexibility than a UK dealer.
Ned
Big Ned said:
I tried to explain this to before, with the 147 Ti, know you have one yourself and they are a really good spec car. It is up to Alfa UK how they offer to spec there cars, with the Ti they chose to make it a limited edition of 200 car and only Alfa Red, Metallic Black or Silver and no other options could be added. I ordered my Ti pack cars with the addition of winter pack and comfort pack and in any colour offered it the Alfa Romeo range.
I guess it comes down to semantics - your definition of 'exactly the same' seems to match my own definition of 'a bit different'.Hi Jamie
With the up most respect, if our customer wants the car “exactly the same” they get it “exactly the same”, if our customer wants “something a bit different” they can have what they want.
Your 147 Ti did not come with a winter pack or comfort pack, had you ordered you car from us it would have had these extras at a lower price and if you wanted to add Connect Nav + you could have done. This was not possible to do from a UK dealer, as I say more flexibility for our customers.
Ned
With the up most respect, if our customer wants the car “exactly the same” they get it “exactly the same”, if our customer wants “something a bit different” they can have what they want.
Your 147 Ti did not come with a winter pack or comfort pack, had you ordered you car from us it would have had these extras at a lower price and if you wanted to add Connect Nav + you could have done. This was not possible to do from a UK dealer, as I say more flexibility for our customers.
Ned
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