Let's see your Alfa Romeos!
Discussion
firebird350 said:
I shudder to talk about my '93 164 QV Cloverleaf these days for fear of boring everyone with my enthusiasm for it! Coming up to 15 years' ownership now of this underrated machine which has been a professional working car all its life and rarely sleeps overnight in a warm, dry garage and yet I simply can't explain why I never get bored with it.
My first and only Alfa, I originally bought it as a stop-gap in 2002 in anticipation of the very specific Fiat Coupe Turbo which I was seeking at the time (but never found) and this elegant white bi*ch-mistress quickly but insidiously started working her charms on me. Fifteen years later and the story is unchanged. If she ever leaves me the divorce will be traumatic, to say the least.
Up on those wonderful Yorkshire moors during the Roger Albert Clark rally four years ago.
From 77,000 miles at purchase, she is now less than 2k from breaking the 200,000 mile barrier. Original engine? Oh ye of little faith, yes of course! I do however confess that I broke the gearbox at 105k following a street-fight with an RS4 which necessitated a rebuild. 230 BHP versus the Audi's 400 plus? Yes, but that's the kind of car the Cloverleaf is. It WILL wade into battle knowing it's probably going to emerge with a bloody nose.
Dawn on the promenade in Penzance on a trip to the Isles of Scilly.
Why perchance is this car underrated? My own view is that many people only see a large-ish FWD executive saloon which is unlikely to get off the line smartly and I would agree with that. The depths and true talent of this car need to be discovered through driving. I shan't go on about the Busso V6 because everyone who knows this marvellous engine does exactly that. What I will say is that somebody at Alfa Romeo really knew what they were doing when they set this chassis up. The result is that the Cloverleaf drives and handles better the faster you go and I have never found the chassis to be wanting even in 'moments' of extreme excess. You can simply use more of that 230 BHP for FAR more of the time than you would think ever possible on first acquaintance and consequently the car's a supremely faithful ally on fast, twisty and challenging roads.
It's sometimes dirty!
I've heard it said that the car's weight (1500 kg) can work against it under braking although I've never experienced that. Then again, I've never been the last of the late brakers and when 'giving it death' the gearbox is always fully in play anyway, even down to double de-clutching into first for hairpin bends and the like.
For the rest, the Pininfarina design is conservatively elegant (1980's skirts aside perhaps!) and simple. The car has a very comfortable and well-appointed interior plus a usefully-commanding driving position (no long-arm/short-leg stuff here) allied to great forward visibility through the broad windscreen. That view out is a proper widescreen TV so no excuses for not being able to place this car to within an inch or two of your chosen target then!
The 164 Cloverleaf is a discreet, virtually invisible machine (which happens to suit me just fine) so it won't turn heads if that's what you seek. However, the upside of being off the radar is that the car receives none of the unwanted attention that can exist out there. You can park it anywhere knowing that it will not come to any harm by the time you return. Yes, Q-ship is the term.
It's sometimes clean! (Brooklands)
As a kind of 90's neo-classic you really do need to hook up with an Alfa specialist (Adrian Jardine at Alfa Aid takes care of mine) as parts aren't that easy to come by today and the car will reward the intimate knowledge and attention of Alfa specialists in terms of reliability and the correct driving experience. Yes, these particular 164's were top of the range Alfas (at the time) and while simple in some respects they are complicated in a number of areas and so you WILL receive big bills once in a while. Having said that, my own is still a viable daily driver with its continuous run of twenty one-odd valid MOT certificates.
You know something? I sometimes wish I could get bored with the 'Leaf. You see, there's this Maserati...(not kidding, the 164 really is that good!).
Oh, alright then - one more!
Lovely, but I can't remember the last time I saw one.My first and only Alfa, I originally bought it as a stop-gap in 2002 in anticipation of the very specific Fiat Coupe Turbo which I was seeking at the time (but never found) and this elegant white bi*ch-mistress quickly but insidiously started working her charms on me. Fifteen years later and the story is unchanged. If she ever leaves me the divorce will be traumatic, to say the least.
Up on those wonderful Yorkshire moors during the Roger Albert Clark rally four years ago.
From 77,000 miles at purchase, she is now less than 2k from breaking the 200,000 mile barrier. Original engine? Oh ye of little faith, yes of course! I do however confess that I broke the gearbox at 105k following a street-fight with an RS4 which necessitated a rebuild. 230 BHP versus the Audi's 400 plus? Yes, but that's the kind of car the Cloverleaf is. It WILL wade into battle knowing it's probably going to emerge with a bloody nose.
Dawn on the promenade in Penzance on a trip to the Isles of Scilly.
Why perchance is this car underrated? My own view is that many people only see a large-ish FWD executive saloon which is unlikely to get off the line smartly and I would agree with that. The depths and true talent of this car need to be discovered through driving. I shan't go on about the Busso V6 because everyone who knows this marvellous engine does exactly that. What I will say is that somebody at Alfa Romeo really knew what they were doing when they set this chassis up. The result is that the Cloverleaf drives and handles better the faster you go and I have never found the chassis to be wanting even in 'moments' of extreme excess. You can simply use more of that 230 BHP for FAR more of the time than you would think ever possible on first acquaintance and consequently the car's a supremely faithful ally on fast, twisty and challenging roads.
It's sometimes dirty!
I've heard it said that the car's weight (1500 kg) can work against it under braking although I've never experienced that. Then again, I've never been the last of the late brakers and when 'giving it death' the gearbox is always fully in play anyway, even down to double de-clutching into first for hairpin bends and the like.
For the rest, the Pininfarina design is conservatively elegant (1980's skirts aside perhaps!) and simple. The car has a very comfortable and well-appointed interior plus a usefully-commanding driving position (no long-arm/short-leg stuff here) allied to great forward visibility through the broad windscreen. That view out is a proper widescreen TV so no excuses for not being able to place this car to within an inch or two of your chosen target then!
The 164 Cloverleaf is a discreet, virtually invisible machine (which happens to suit me just fine) so it won't turn heads if that's what you seek. However, the upside of being off the radar is that the car receives none of the unwanted attention that can exist out there. You can park it anywhere knowing that it will not come to any harm by the time you return. Yes, Q-ship is the term.
It's sometimes clean! (Brooklands)
As a kind of 90's neo-classic you really do need to hook up with an Alfa specialist (Adrian Jardine at Alfa Aid takes care of mine) as parts aren't that easy to come by today and the car will reward the intimate knowledge and attention of Alfa specialists in terms of reliability and the correct driving experience. Yes, these particular 164's were top of the range Alfas (at the time) and while simple in some respects they are complicated in a number of areas and so you WILL receive big bills once in a while. Having said that, my own is still a viable daily driver with its continuous run of twenty one-odd valid MOT certificates.
You know something? I sometimes wish I could get bored with the 'Leaf. You see, there's this Maserati...(not kidding, the 164 really is that good!).
Oh, alright then - one more!
Busso looks a treat:
The sound....
Kind of a Q-car: it looks like a hatch and it is but then sweeter
My lady bought herself a 2 litre a few months ago and this weekend we could properly test it in the Flemish flatlands and Ardens. It is OK between 2 and 4K. Pass 5 and sportscars should be worried. Silky smooth up till 7k and a gearbox that shifts at your fingertips. On fresh 215s I found no limits on the twisties so I guess it needs to be pushed harder. About 12 kms on a litre and quite comfy. Better than a Golf? Hahaha...
The sound....
Kind of a Q-car: it looks like a hatch and it is but then sweeter
My lady bought herself a 2 litre a few months ago and this weekend we could properly test it in the Flemish flatlands and Ardens. It is OK between 2 and 4K. Pass 5 and sportscars should be worried. Silky smooth up till 7k and a gearbox that shifts at your fingertips. On fresh 215s I found no limits on the twisties so I guess it needs to be pushed harder. About 12 kms on a litre and quite comfy. Better than a Golf? Hahaha...I've had lots of Alfa's in the past, but over last ten years mostly German cars and specifically AMG's. However, had enough of Mercs so I bought this 1.9 JTDM 16v Ti just over a month ago (as a car for the dog) whilst I wait for my Alfa 4C to be built/delivered. These are the original pics by the seller and I have since had it lowered, but only by about 30mm, so it's now got a nicer stance. I've had replaced all of the front suspension on both sides (upper and lower wishbones etc), clutch/DMF flywheel plus new badges all round and now its in pretty mint condition (FSH with only 57k on the clock). Love being back in an Alfa! Surprisingly torquey too 
Edited by monotokpoint on Sunday 30th April 22:05
Picked it up a madreperla spider with black interior and red seats last night. Took it for a run through Hollywood, Beverly Hills, a few snaps on Rodeo, up the Pacific Coast, into the canyons then back up across Sunset blvd to see what it could do. Absolute riot!
Hands down it's instantly one of my favourite cars of all time. The Vantage is going to gather a lot of dust!
Hands down it's instantly one of my favourite cars of all time. The Vantage is going to gather a lot of dust!
Justices said:
Picked it up a madreperla spider with black interior and red seats last night. Took it for a run through Hollywood, Beverly Hills, a few snaps on Rodeo, up the Pacific Coast, into the canyons then back up across Sunset blvd to see what it could do. Absolute riot!
Hands down it's instantly one of my favourite cars of all time. The Vantage is going to gather a lot of dust!
Truly a junior supercar!Hands down it's instantly one of my favourite cars of all time. The Vantage is going to gather a lot of dust!
Must be rare as hens teeth there as well?
As Italian car fans you may be interested in this event held over the 2nd May Bank Holiday weekend:
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Gassing Station | Alfa Romeo, Fiat & Lancia | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff