Calling XJR X308 Owners
Discussion
Hi All,
I have been thinking about purchasing a Jaguar XJR X308 for some time and have an important question for current owners before I take the plunge.
Will I more than likely be buying a money pit?
I want to buy a 2000 model or later and am willing to spend up to £4000 for the right car. I will aim to get one with no rust or tensioner issues. My plan is to basically run the car and enjoy it, obviously I will service it but I don’t really want massive repair bills every couple of months. How reliable are they?
Although the car I buy won’t be a garage queen it will only do 4,000 miles a year tops.
Thanks
Mike
I have been thinking about purchasing a Jaguar XJR X308 for some time and have an important question for current owners before I take the plunge.
Will I more than likely be buying a money pit?
I want to buy a 2000 model or later and am willing to spend up to £4000 for the right car. I will aim to get one with no rust or tensioner issues. My plan is to basically run the car and enjoy it, obviously I will service it but I don’t really want massive repair bills every couple of months. How reliable are they?
Although the car I buy won’t be a garage queen it will only do 4,000 miles a year tops.
Thanks
Mike
XJRs are bought to use the performance - otherwise why pay the additional fuel, tyres and insurance costs over and above the standard car and compromise the ride quality too? This is likley to make an ever increasing difference in condition between the supercharged and n/a car options as the years and miles pile on and means you'll have to be even more cautious if you go for one.
X308 Buyers Guide
OVERVIEW
To avoid XJ model confusion the 1997-2002 V8 engined XJ is often referred to by its factory designation as the X308. The V8 engine in the 308 is available in a 3.2, 4.0 with VVT and a supercharged 4.0 and all versions are 5 speed auto only. £3000 should buy you a good example of a base 3.2, but the best low mileage cars or high spec ones are priced at up to double that. Engines were revised in late 1999 for the 2000 model year to deal with design problems and a car fitted with the revised engine version can be identified by a VIN number ending in five, not six digits. Pre engine revision cars had weak water pumps, secondary timing chain tensioners, throttle bodies and a Nicasil coating applied directly on the aluminum block bore walls rather than using conventional liners pressed into the block.
ENGINE NICASIL
Some Nicasil coatings suffered from bore erosion due to a combination of high Sulphur content fuel and repeated short trips that caused an acidic build up in the oil that etched away the Nicasil coating. Sulphur maximum allowable limits in petrol were lowered considerably in Jan 2000 so any pre 2000 Nicasil coated V8 engine that's still OK now should be fine forever. Several Nicasil lined engines were changed under warranty so you may find a pre 2000 car with a later steel lined engine fitted - identify this by the presence of a green tag on the head buried at the back of the RH bank and the engine change should also be recorded in the history. Symptoms of bore erosion and loss of compression are poor cold starting, a lumpy idle and heavy oil deposits in the breather system and air intake. Crankcase pressure will be high too – a quick check for this is to slightly lift the oil filler cap at hot idle. There should be little or no internal pressure or fumes escaping. Jaguar dealers can perform a blow by check to determine engine condition. A good condition engine will show less than 25 l/m, anything over 40 l/m will make a good Top Gear coffee table.
ENGINE COOLING
Impellers on early water pumps can disintegrate giving a loss of efficiency leading to overheating and potential head gasket failure. An early pump can be changed to the later version with a metal, not plastic impeller. The temperature gauge is software driven and is not always an accurate refection of actual coolant temperature.
For an indication of water pump efficiency, remove the coolant header tank cap when the engine is STONE COLD, start up and gently increase engine speed. If the water pump is healthy you should see a steady stream of coolant into the tank from the thin return pipe that runs back from the front of the engine.
You may be able to identify the later type of pump by the presence of a black plastic, not metal gasket, but the only certain way is to remove the pump and have a look. Spring type coolant hose clips can loose tension and allow pipes to blow off and some plastic parts on the hoses, unions and thermostat housing are delicate. It’s worth replacing all the sprung coolant clips with proper Jubilee ones. Check all over for evidence of coolant leaks, particularly around the thermostat/filler cap tower and coolant pipes underneath the inlet manifold. Occasional auxiliary heater pump failures can lead to no heat output in the cabin at low engine RPM. Cycle the whole climate and a/c system through all vent operations and temperature range. Two types of coolant available for the X308 - don’t mix the later orange long life one with the earlier type.
ENGINE THROTTLE BODIES
Early throttle bodies ought to have been changed to the later design under a factory safety recall. Some of the early bodies suffered from failing actuating motors causing to the engine to cut out completely on the overrun. The later design should have been factory fitted to all cars from VIN 043775 onwards.
SECONDARY TIMING CHAIN TENSIONERS AND CHAINS
The only post 1999 revision engine issue is the secondary timing chain tensioners. These were revised to a mk 2 version at the same time as the rest of the 1999 engine revisions but the mk 2 type still had a plastic body which can crack or break up leading to slipped or broken chains. Mk 1 tensioners are actuated by engine oil pressure and failure can often be identified by a sharp rattling noise similar to a bicycle chain dragging on the chain guard on a cold start. The mk2 type is permanently tensioned by an integral spring instead which means it’ll usually fail silently.
A permanent solution is to retro-fit the later mk3 version tensioner made with a metal, not plastic body from the later 4.2 incarnation of the V8 engine and the only way to be sure of which tensioners are fitted to an 308 is to either have a receipt with tensioner part numbers C2A1511 and C2A1512 which are the metal bodied type and the required 4 new bolts to fit them on it relating to that particular car or remove the RH cam cover - the LH is a PITA to get off - and have a look. A reddish/orange (mk1) or cream (mk2) plastic tensioner body is bad news, a grey aluminum metal one (mk3) is good.
The cam phasing on the V8 means the timing gear works hard and timing chains can stretch at high mileages or on neglected cars. If this is identified then a full chain and tensioner replacement is required costing up to £1000. If the chains/sprockets and guides are OK then it’s a wise precaution to fit the mk3 secondary tensioners which is a fairly easy DIY job. Tensioners cost around £75 a set plus a couple of quid for new bolts. Cam setting tools for this job and all other special tools needed for any work on a 308 can all be hired from the Jaguar Enthusiasts’ Club. Secondary tensioners can also be changed without any tools by removing the exhaust cam whilst preserving the timing with a tie wrap holding the chain on the ex cam sprocket and easing the tensioners out of location.
Exhaust cam chains slipping one tooth – usually on a cold start - will give a very rough running engine, more than one tooth slipped means exhaust valves will meet pistons.
A good general rule of thumb for engine condition is internal cleanliness. Bright shiny metal inside the oil filler cap and dipstick along with clean oil and no evidence of leaks is a good sign, as is clear coolant that does not smell or taste bitter or acrid.
GEARBOX/ DRIVELINE
All X308s have a “sealed for life” gearbox – ZF unit in the n/a cars and a Mercedes one in the supercharged cars. Loads have failed now - just look on ebay in the non runners or spares and repairs section. Any car that hesitates or engages Drive with a jerk or thump as the engine speed rises has a potential gearbox failure looming. Gear changes should be seamless and quiet and you should be able to play tunes with the throttle, Sport switch and J gate selector. Any transmission stuck in 4th or 5th or only driving in reverse is FUBAR'd.
A very faint gear whine may be heard in intermediate gears. Any gearbox issues or concerns are potentially fatal. An oil and filter change may be all that’s needed to cure a gearbox malfunction but that’s never guaranteed.
Ideally the gearbox oil and filter should be changed at 50k then at 25k intervals; it's not a simple drain and refill on the ZF box as the final fill has to be done quickly with the engine running and within a narrow temperature range. There is no conventional dipstick for checking oil level.
The ZF 5 speed box on the n/a cars requires Esso/Mobil longlife LT 71141 fluid also known as Lifeguard Fluid 5 and not conventional Dexron 3. The Mercedes gearbox in the supercharged version is also sealed for life but the same change requirement apply although you can use Dexron 3 in this box and once you’ve fitted a temporary dipstick it’s a less complex job to do. Some transmission specialists offer a flush and change service done via the rather fragile oil cooler pipes in the radiator which also gets the oil otherwise retained in the torque converter out.
The same applies to the rear axle. Oil should be changed but there’s no drain plug. Old oil has to be vacuum extracted out of the filler plug. Refill with a API GL5 75 or 85/90 oil. Whining diffs will go on forever and can be quieted down quite a bit with EP140 or 250 oil.
BODY, PAINT AND CORROSION
Look for corrosion round the rear wheel arches, round the front and rear screens especially underneath the screen rubbers in the bottom corners, bottom of the front wings, sill closing panels and most importantly behind the front shocks on both sides. There's a reinforcing plate where the engine sub frame V mount is bolted to the body rail and some cars have corroded badly here. Corrosion around the same area may also be visible in the engine compartment on the top of the body rail around the heads of the bolts that retain the top of the V mounts. It's an MOT fail and a big welding job. Another area to check is the joint between the rear of the front inner wings and the bulkhead. Body and paintwork is otherwise pretty good however some darker coloured cars suffer from peeling lacquer. Bumper corners are susceptible to damage and bumper mounting brackets can corrode.
Clear over base lacquer on the X308 is soft and easy to scratch with careless washing Providing you can’t actually feel scratches with a thumbnail and the paint colour underneath is OK it’s possible to restore the bodywork to a very good finish with a through clay, polish and wax. Stripe down body flanks if car has one is hand painted and not always completely straight.
INTERIOR
Always leather with different levels of trim and seat design. Wood trim clips on and is easy to change to different type. Driver’s seat back and steering wheels tend to suffer from wear. Head linings can sag. LWB version has more room in back.
SUSPENSION, TYRES AND BRAKES
X308s are hard on suspension and brakes, listen and feel very carefully for any clonking or knocking over bumps and make sure the car comes to a straight judder-free stop under both light and hard braking. A sharp rattle heard and felt through the steering over bumps combined with a little free play in the steering wheel may be a worn crush joint on the lower steering column.
A clattery rattle from the rear is likely to be failed shocks or shock bushes. X308s with weak rear A frame or rear hub bushes will tend to self steer and wander about under hard acceleration. Driveshaft UJs have grease nipples which are often neglected.
Feel all round the tyres for uneven wear patterns; any suspension wear or bush failure giving incorrect geometry will cause tyres to feather badly and heavy wear in the inside edges is a symptom of excess negative camber from wishbone bush or ball joint failure. Slight and even feathering is normal on the front tyres.
All Jaguar XJs are very sensitive to wheel and tyre imbalances or damage, typically you'll feel a steering wobble between 50-70MPH and possibly vibration through the seat if there are any tyre problems or buckled wheels. A Hunter Roadforce wheel balance is usually the solution. Incorrect tyre pressures, worn out or cheap budget tyres will severely affect handling and ride. Most X308s exhibit a faint exhaust harmonic around 50 and another one at 65MPH. You might possibly experience a hint of driveline vibration through the body too. Don't expect too much in the way of the legendary Jaguar ride quality either - it's pretty good on touring (black shocks) suspension and 16" wheels but sport suspension cars (green shocks) are stiffer and have a thicker front anti roll bar and one on the rear too which when combined with larger diameter wheels and lower profile tyres gives a hard crashy ride on poor roads. CATS suspension may be fitted as an option to any X308. CATS has electronically controlled valves in the shocks to vary the damping rates depending on driving style. Identify CATS by the presence of a plastic cover over the top of the front shock absorber with a lead going into it.
ELECTRICIAL/ OBD2 DIAGNOSTICS
Electrical systems are generally pretty robust. As with any old car you might have the odd problem so check absolutely everything works. Even the earliest X308 is OBD2 compliant and a £20 code reader plugged into the socket in the driver’s footwell will help
diagnosis a lot. Electric aerials are vunerable, there are occasional O2 sensor, airflow meter and brake light switch failures.
XJ’s need a strong battery to avoid random error messages appearing on start up. If you get one – usually TRAC FAIL – the battery is on its way out or needs several days on a trickle charge to bring it back up to full capacity.
BUYING AND LIVING WITH AN XJ
Generally the 1997-2002 X308 is a strong car and capable of big mileages if maintained well and not abused or neglected. It's mostly easy enough to DIY and parts are reasonable and in good supply from several independents and the Jaguar Classic Parts scheme. Expect around 26/8 MPG on the motorway, 20/4 round town and mid teens or less if you nail it everywhere. Tyres are around £100/120 a corner in 16" diameter size. The 3.2 is quick enough (0-60 is 8s) the 4.0 is much rarer and does the same in 7.0.
Shortening intervals between servicing and using a genuine fully synthetic oil is worthwhile. It’ll help protect the timing chains and give improved fuel economy. A through rust proofing and full fluid change is a benefit too if you want to preserve the car. Official servicing is annual or 10000 miles. 70k service is the expensive one on n/a cars.
One last thing. A software fault means you should never start an X308 from cold and then switch off again before allowing the temp gauge to move off the cold section of the scale. Chances are it’ll flood when you next start and wash all the oil of the bores and it’s a right PITA to get it running again.
X308 Buyers Guide
OVERVIEW
To avoid XJ model confusion the 1997-2002 V8 engined XJ is often referred to by its factory designation as the X308. The V8 engine in the 308 is available in a 3.2, 4.0 with VVT and a supercharged 4.0 and all versions are 5 speed auto only. £3000 should buy you a good example of a base 3.2, but the best low mileage cars or high spec ones are priced at up to double that. Engines were revised in late 1999 for the 2000 model year to deal with design problems and a car fitted with the revised engine version can be identified by a VIN number ending in five, not six digits. Pre engine revision cars had weak water pumps, secondary timing chain tensioners, throttle bodies and a Nicasil coating applied directly on the aluminum block bore walls rather than using conventional liners pressed into the block.
ENGINE NICASIL
Some Nicasil coatings suffered from bore erosion due to a combination of high Sulphur content fuel and repeated short trips that caused an acidic build up in the oil that etched away the Nicasil coating. Sulphur maximum allowable limits in petrol were lowered considerably in Jan 2000 so any pre 2000 Nicasil coated V8 engine that's still OK now should be fine forever. Several Nicasil lined engines were changed under warranty so you may find a pre 2000 car with a later steel lined engine fitted - identify this by the presence of a green tag on the head buried at the back of the RH bank and the engine change should also be recorded in the history. Symptoms of bore erosion and loss of compression are poor cold starting, a lumpy idle and heavy oil deposits in the breather system and air intake. Crankcase pressure will be high too – a quick check for this is to slightly lift the oil filler cap at hot idle. There should be little or no internal pressure or fumes escaping. Jaguar dealers can perform a blow by check to determine engine condition. A good condition engine will show less than 25 l/m, anything over 40 l/m will make a good Top Gear coffee table.
ENGINE COOLING
Impellers on early water pumps can disintegrate giving a loss of efficiency leading to overheating and potential head gasket failure. An early pump can be changed to the later version with a metal, not plastic impeller. The temperature gauge is software driven and is not always an accurate refection of actual coolant temperature.
For an indication of water pump efficiency, remove the coolant header tank cap when the engine is STONE COLD, start up and gently increase engine speed. If the water pump is healthy you should see a steady stream of coolant into the tank from the thin return pipe that runs back from the front of the engine.
You may be able to identify the later type of pump by the presence of a black plastic, not metal gasket, but the only certain way is to remove the pump and have a look. Spring type coolant hose clips can loose tension and allow pipes to blow off and some plastic parts on the hoses, unions and thermostat housing are delicate. It’s worth replacing all the sprung coolant clips with proper Jubilee ones. Check all over for evidence of coolant leaks, particularly around the thermostat/filler cap tower and coolant pipes underneath the inlet manifold. Occasional auxiliary heater pump failures can lead to no heat output in the cabin at low engine RPM. Cycle the whole climate and a/c system through all vent operations and temperature range. Two types of coolant available for the X308 - don’t mix the later orange long life one with the earlier type.
ENGINE THROTTLE BODIES
Early throttle bodies ought to have been changed to the later design under a factory safety recall. Some of the early bodies suffered from failing actuating motors causing to the engine to cut out completely on the overrun. The later design should have been factory fitted to all cars from VIN 043775 onwards.
SECONDARY TIMING CHAIN TENSIONERS AND CHAINS
The only post 1999 revision engine issue is the secondary timing chain tensioners. These were revised to a mk 2 version at the same time as the rest of the 1999 engine revisions but the mk 2 type still had a plastic body which can crack or break up leading to slipped or broken chains. Mk 1 tensioners are actuated by engine oil pressure and failure can often be identified by a sharp rattling noise similar to a bicycle chain dragging on the chain guard on a cold start. The mk2 type is permanently tensioned by an integral spring instead which means it’ll usually fail silently.
A permanent solution is to retro-fit the later mk3 version tensioner made with a metal, not plastic body from the later 4.2 incarnation of the V8 engine and the only way to be sure of which tensioners are fitted to an 308 is to either have a receipt with tensioner part numbers C2A1511 and C2A1512 which are the metal bodied type and the required 4 new bolts to fit them on it relating to that particular car or remove the RH cam cover - the LH is a PITA to get off - and have a look. A reddish/orange (mk1) or cream (mk2) plastic tensioner body is bad news, a grey aluminum metal one (mk3) is good.
The cam phasing on the V8 means the timing gear works hard and timing chains can stretch at high mileages or on neglected cars. If this is identified then a full chain and tensioner replacement is required costing up to £1000. If the chains/sprockets and guides are OK then it’s a wise precaution to fit the mk3 secondary tensioners which is a fairly easy DIY job. Tensioners cost around £75 a set plus a couple of quid for new bolts. Cam setting tools for this job and all other special tools needed for any work on a 308 can all be hired from the Jaguar Enthusiasts’ Club. Secondary tensioners can also be changed without any tools by removing the exhaust cam whilst preserving the timing with a tie wrap holding the chain on the ex cam sprocket and easing the tensioners out of location.
Exhaust cam chains slipping one tooth – usually on a cold start - will give a very rough running engine, more than one tooth slipped means exhaust valves will meet pistons.
A good general rule of thumb for engine condition is internal cleanliness. Bright shiny metal inside the oil filler cap and dipstick along with clean oil and no evidence of leaks is a good sign, as is clear coolant that does not smell or taste bitter or acrid.
GEARBOX/ DRIVELINE
All X308s have a “sealed for life” gearbox – ZF unit in the n/a cars and a Mercedes one in the supercharged cars. Loads have failed now - just look on ebay in the non runners or spares and repairs section. Any car that hesitates or engages Drive with a jerk or thump as the engine speed rises has a potential gearbox failure looming. Gear changes should be seamless and quiet and you should be able to play tunes with the throttle, Sport switch and J gate selector. Any transmission stuck in 4th or 5th or only driving in reverse is FUBAR'd.
A very faint gear whine may be heard in intermediate gears. Any gearbox issues or concerns are potentially fatal. An oil and filter change may be all that’s needed to cure a gearbox malfunction but that’s never guaranteed.
Ideally the gearbox oil and filter should be changed at 50k then at 25k intervals; it's not a simple drain and refill on the ZF box as the final fill has to be done quickly with the engine running and within a narrow temperature range. There is no conventional dipstick for checking oil level.
The ZF 5 speed box on the n/a cars requires Esso/Mobil longlife LT 71141 fluid also known as Lifeguard Fluid 5 and not conventional Dexron 3. The Mercedes gearbox in the supercharged version is also sealed for life but the same change requirement apply although you can use Dexron 3 in this box and once you’ve fitted a temporary dipstick it’s a less complex job to do. Some transmission specialists offer a flush and change service done via the rather fragile oil cooler pipes in the radiator which also gets the oil otherwise retained in the torque converter out.
The same applies to the rear axle. Oil should be changed but there’s no drain plug. Old oil has to be vacuum extracted out of the filler plug. Refill with a API GL5 75 or 85/90 oil. Whining diffs will go on forever and can be quieted down quite a bit with EP140 or 250 oil.
BODY, PAINT AND CORROSION
Look for corrosion round the rear wheel arches, round the front and rear screens especially underneath the screen rubbers in the bottom corners, bottom of the front wings, sill closing panels and most importantly behind the front shocks on both sides. There's a reinforcing plate where the engine sub frame V mount is bolted to the body rail and some cars have corroded badly here. Corrosion around the same area may also be visible in the engine compartment on the top of the body rail around the heads of the bolts that retain the top of the V mounts. It's an MOT fail and a big welding job. Another area to check is the joint between the rear of the front inner wings and the bulkhead. Body and paintwork is otherwise pretty good however some darker coloured cars suffer from peeling lacquer. Bumper corners are susceptible to damage and bumper mounting brackets can corrode.
Clear over base lacquer on the X308 is soft and easy to scratch with careless washing Providing you can’t actually feel scratches with a thumbnail and the paint colour underneath is OK it’s possible to restore the bodywork to a very good finish with a through clay, polish and wax. Stripe down body flanks if car has one is hand painted and not always completely straight.
INTERIOR
Always leather with different levels of trim and seat design. Wood trim clips on and is easy to change to different type. Driver’s seat back and steering wheels tend to suffer from wear. Head linings can sag. LWB version has more room in back.
SUSPENSION, TYRES AND BRAKES
X308s are hard on suspension and brakes, listen and feel very carefully for any clonking or knocking over bumps and make sure the car comes to a straight judder-free stop under both light and hard braking. A sharp rattle heard and felt through the steering over bumps combined with a little free play in the steering wheel may be a worn crush joint on the lower steering column.
A clattery rattle from the rear is likely to be failed shocks or shock bushes. X308s with weak rear A frame or rear hub bushes will tend to self steer and wander about under hard acceleration. Driveshaft UJs have grease nipples which are often neglected.
Feel all round the tyres for uneven wear patterns; any suspension wear or bush failure giving incorrect geometry will cause tyres to feather badly and heavy wear in the inside edges is a symptom of excess negative camber from wishbone bush or ball joint failure. Slight and even feathering is normal on the front tyres.
All Jaguar XJs are very sensitive to wheel and tyre imbalances or damage, typically you'll feel a steering wobble between 50-70MPH and possibly vibration through the seat if there are any tyre problems or buckled wheels. A Hunter Roadforce wheel balance is usually the solution. Incorrect tyre pressures, worn out or cheap budget tyres will severely affect handling and ride. Most X308s exhibit a faint exhaust harmonic around 50 and another one at 65MPH. You might possibly experience a hint of driveline vibration through the body too. Don't expect too much in the way of the legendary Jaguar ride quality either - it's pretty good on touring (black shocks) suspension and 16" wheels but sport suspension cars (green shocks) are stiffer and have a thicker front anti roll bar and one on the rear too which when combined with larger diameter wheels and lower profile tyres gives a hard crashy ride on poor roads. CATS suspension may be fitted as an option to any X308. CATS has electronically controlled valves in the shocks to vary the damping rates depending on driving style. Identify CATS by the presence of a plastic cover over the top of the front shock absorber with a lead going into it.
ELECTRICIAL/ OBD2 DIAGNOSTICS
Electrical systems are generally pretty robust. As with any old car you might have the odd problem so check absolutely everything works. Even the earliest X308 is OBD2 compliant and a £20 code reader plugged into the socket in the driver’s footwell will help
diagnosis a lot. Electric aerials are vunerable, there are occasional O2 sensor, airflow meter and brake light switch failures.
XJ’s need a strong battery to avoid random error messages appearing on start up. If you get one – usually TRAC FAIL – the battery is on its way out or needs several days on a trickle charge to bring it back up to full capacity.
BUYING AND LIVING WITH AN XJ
Generally the 1997-2002 X308 is a strong car and capable of big mileages if maintained well and not abused or neglected. It's mostly easy enough to DIY and parts are reasonable and in good supply from several independents and the Jaguar Classic Parts scheme. Expect around 26/8 MPG on the motorway, 20/4 round town and mid teens or less if you nail it everywhere. Tyres are around £100/120 a corner in 16" diameter size. The 3.2 is quick enough (0-60 is 8s) the 4.0 is much rarer and does the same in 7.0.
Shortening intervals between servicing and using a genuine fully synthetic oil is worthwhile. It’ll help protect the timing chains and give improved fuel economy. A through rust proofing and full fluid change is a benefit too if you want to preserve the car. Official servicing is annual or 10000 miles. 70k service is the expensive one on n/a cars.
One last thing. A software fault means you should never start an X308 from cold and then switch off again before allowing the temp gauge to move off the cold section of the scale. Chances are it’ll flood when you next start and wash all the oil of the bores and it’s a right PITA to get it running again.
I've just exchanged my 2000 X308 XJR for an X350 Super V8. I ran the XJR for almost 4 years and did 72k in it averaging 22mpg.
Shortly after I got it the usual multiple, random and intermittant electronic problems started. I traced this to the instrument cluster (after about a year) and finally cured the problem.
The other problems were with the gearbox. This is a Mercedes unit on the XJR and DOES have a drain plug. It also is renown for seals failing around the electrical connector and intermmitant problems causing limp-home fun. This stuff is all well detailed on various Merc forums and is surprisingly cheap to fix. I did the seals but the other problem is with the conductor plate, which I never got round to changing.
Timing chains - mine was MY2000 but still had the orange plastic secondary chain tensioners. They are relativly easy to change but mine also needed the primarys doing. Never got round to that.
Front wheel bearings - this is quite a big job (I still have the special ABS nut tool if anyone is interested).
Apart from the usual service items and brake discs/pads and a lambda sensor that was it for 72k.
All in all a brilliant car - I moved up from an X300 XJR. Love the low-slung looks, performance and all-round capability.
My X350 is growing on me, but not sure of the "pumped-up" looks and the standard brakes are nowhere as good as the Brembos. Not that keen on the air suspension either. The CATS was very good. It's very quick and makes a nice noise.
Shortly after I got it the usual multiple, random and intermittant electronic problems started. I traced this to the instrument cluster (after about a year) and finally cured the problem.
The other problems were with the gearbox. This is a Mercedes unit on the XJR and DOES have a drain plug. It also is renown for seals failing around the electrical connector and intermmitant problems causing limp-home fun. This stuff is all well detailed on various Merc forums and is surprisingly cheap to fix. I did the seals but the other problem is with the conductor plate, which I never got round to changing.
Timing chains - mine was MY2000 but still had the orange plastic secondary chain tensioners. They are relativly easy to change but mine also needed the primarys doing. Never got round to that.
Front wheel bearings - this is quite a big job (I still have the special ABS nut tool if anyone is interested).
Apart from the usual service items and brake discs/pads and a lambda sensor that was it for 72k.
All in all a brilliant car - I moved up from an X300 XJR. Love the low-slung looks, performance and all-round capability.
My X350 is growing on me, but not sure of the "pumped-up" looks and the standard brakes are nowhere as good as the Brembos. Not that keen on the air suspension either. The CATS was very good. It's very quick and makes a nice noise.
LoudV8 said:
I've just exchanged my 2000 X308 XJR for an X350 Super V8. I ran the XJR for almost 4 years and did 72k in it averaging 22mpg.
Shortly after I got it the usual multiple, random and intermittant electronic problems started. I traced this to the instrument cluster (after about a year) and finally cured the problem.
The other problems were with the gearbox. This is a Mercedes unit on the XJR and DOES have a drain plug. It also is renown for seals failing around the electrical connector and intermmitant problems causing limp-home fun. This stuff is all well detailed on various Merc forums and is surprisingly cheap to fix. I did the seals but the other problem is with the conductor plate, which I never got round to changing.
Timing chains - mine was MY2000 but still had the orange plastic secondary chain tensioners. They are relativly easy to change but mine also needed the primarys doing. Never got round to that.
Front wheel bearings - this is quite a big job (I still have the special ABS nut tool if anyone is interested).
Apart from the usual service items and brake discs/pads and a lambda sensor that was it for 72k.
All in all a brilliant car - I moved up from an X300 XJR. Love the low-slung looks, performance and all-round capability.
My X350 is growing on me, but not sure of the "pumped-up" looks and the standard brakes are nowhere as good as the Brembos. Not that keen on the air suspension either. The CATS was very good. It's very quick and makes a nice noise.
I didn't say the gearbox has no drain plug - they both do. I said the rear axle does not have one.Shortly after I got it the usual multiple, random and intermittant electronic problems started. I traced this to the instrument cluster (after about a year) and finally cured the problem.
The other problems were with the gearbox. This is a Mercedes unit on the XJR and DOES have a drain plug. It also is renown for seals failing around the electrical connector and intermmitant problems causing limp-home fun. This stuff is all well detailed on various Merc forums and is surprisingly cheap to fix. I did the seals but the other problem is with the conductor plate, which I never got round to changing.
Timing chains - mine was MY2000 but still had the orange plastic secondary chain tensioners. They are relativly easy to change but mine also needed the primarys doing. Never got round to that.
Front wheel bearings - this is quite a big job (I still have the special ABS nut tool if anyone is interested).
Apart from the usual service items and brake discs/pads and a lambda sensor that was it for 72k.
All in all a brilliant car - I moved up from an X300 XJR. Love the low-slung looks, performance and all-round capability.
My X350 is growing on me, but not sure of the "pumped-up" looks and the standard brakes are nowhere as good as the Brembos. Not that keen on the air suspension either. The CATS was very good. It's very quick and makes a nice noise.
LoudV8 said:
I've just exchanged my 2000 X308 XJR for an X350 Super V8. I ran the XJR for almost 4 years and did 72k in it averaging 22mpg.
Shortly after I got it the usual multiple, random and intermittant electronic problems started. I traced this to the instrument cluster (after about a year) and finally cured the problem.
The other problems were with the gearbox. This is a Mercedes unit on the XJR and DOES have a drain plug. It also is renown for seals failing around the electrical connector and intermmitant problems causing limp-home fun. This stuff is all well detailed on various Merc forums and is surprisingly cheap to fix. I did the seals but the other problem is with the conductor plate, which I never got round to changing.
Timing chains - mine was MY2000 but still had the orange plastic secondary chain tensioners. They are relativly easy to change but mine also needed the primarys doing. Never got round to that.
Front wheel bearings - this is quite a big job (I still have the special ABS nut tool if anyone is interested).
Apart from the usual service items and brake discs/pads and a lambda sensor that was it for 72k.
All in all a brilliant car - I moved up from an X300 XJR. Love the low-slung looks, performance and all-round capability.
My X350 is growing on me, but not sure of the "pumped-up" looks and the standard brakes are nowhere as good as the Brembos. Not that keen on the air suspension either. The CATS was very good. It's very quick and makes a nice noise.
Thanks for that, very useful. I have a few questions though….Shortly after I got it the usual multiple, random and intermittant electronic problems started. I traced this to the instrument cluster (after about a year) and finally cured the problem.
The other problems were with the gearbox. This is a Mercedes unit on the XJR and DOES have a drain plug. It also is renown for seals failing around the electrical connector and intermmitant problems causing limp-home fun. This stuff is all well detailed on various Merc forums and is surprisingly cheap to fix. I did the seals but the other problem is with the conductor plate, which I never got round to changing.
Timing chains - mine was MY2000 but still had the orange plastic secondary chain tensioners. They are relativly easy to change but mine also needed the primarys doing. Never got round to that.
Front wheel bearings - this is quite a big job (I still have the special ABS nut tool if anyone is interested).
Apart from the usual service items and brake discs/pads and a lambda sensor that was it for 72k.
All in all a brilliant car - I moved up from an X300 XJR. Love the low-slung looks, performance and all-round capability.
My X350 is growing on me, but not sure of the "pumped-up" looks and the standard brakes are nowhere as good as the Brembos. Not that keen on the air suspension either. The CATS was very good. It's very quick and makes a nice noise.
The electrical gremlins you mentioned, what did they consist of? I just want to be able to spot them during a test drive so I don’t buy one with these issues.
The same goes for the wheel bearings, is it easy to detect this being a problem during a test drive? Usually bad wheel bearings are noisy?
As for the gearbox, how will I spot problems here?
I am fully aware of the tensioners issue, and although I am not adverse to buying one with plastic tensioners, I will bear it in mind.
A X308 4litre is also one to consider. They are still very lively cars. I know the owner of this car as he is a fellow member of N/Staffs JEC. It is totally flawless and had the various mods done, including G/box oil change. It's in your price bracket. He may take an offer.
I have no interest in the sale , I just know the car and owner.
http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C470260
I have no interest in the sale , I just know the car and owner.
http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C470260
Jaguar steve said:
I didn't say the gearbox has no drain plug - they both do. I said the rear axle does not have one.
Woah buddy I wasn't having a go I was just expressing delight in being able to change the fluid easily, unlike the ZF box.I actually owe you for all your advice, and I did use the zip-tie method for the tensioners. Piece of the proverbial.
mnaylor said:
Thanks for that, very useful. I have a few questions though….
The electrical gremlins you mentioned, what did they consist of? I just want to be able to spot them during a test drive so I don’t buy one with these issues.
The same goes for the wheel bearings, is it easy to detect this being a problem during a test drive? Usually bad wheel bearings are noisy?
As for the gearbox, how will I spot problems here?
I am fully aware of the tensioners issue, and although I am not adverse to buying one with plastic tensioners, I will bear it in mind.
Electrical gremlins - every warning light coming on, all instruments dead (except fuel I think), ABS fail warning etc etc. Many random OBD codes as well. They would clear after a restart and next time another set of random faults.The electrical gremlins you mentioned, what did they consist of? I just want to be able to spot them during a test drive so I don’t buy one with these issues.
The same goes for the wheel bearings, is it easy to detect this being a problem during a test drive? Usually bad wheel bearings are noisy?
As for the gearbox, how will I spot problems here?
I am fully aware of the tensioners issue, and although I am not adverse to buying one with plastic tensioners, I will bear it in mind.
One common cause of this is as Steve said a dodgy battery but also there is a service note about the instrument cluster. It is the only place where the CANBus and SCPBus meet and there was a faulty bit of flow-soldering that caused problems. Mine was actually OK but I made sure the pcb was absolutely clean and the connectors well home. Voila - end of problems.
The wheels bearings I'm ashamed to admit came up during an MOT. I hadn't even thought about checking them, but in hindsight sometimes there was an intermittent and short lived wheel wobble during braking. The pads realigning the worn bearings I suspect. Quite a big job to replace, but interesting and I took the precaution of changing the bottom suspension arms as the ball-joints take a battering on these cars. If you're doing this ONLY use genuine Jaguar parts.
The gearbox was a bit of a bugger. Clumsy changes followed by limp home mode. Always the same OBD code. Research suggested the gearbox electrical connector and when I got underneath it was wet with ATF. £10 yes £10 for a new fitting from my local Merc dealer and genuine Merc ATF at £8 a litre. Easy job with a drain plug as the box needs draining of a couple of litres to change the elec. fitting.
This cured the problem for a couple of years then occasionally I'd get another rough change and into limp-home. No OBD codes but OK after a restart. Annoying. Further Merc forum lurking revealed common problems with that box and the conductor plate became the prime suspect. This sits in the middle of the fluid control system. £150 for a new one. I was looking forward to doing this as I like fixing things but for various reasons I decided to ditch the X308 and get an X350.
tobinen said:
LoudV8 said:
I've just exchanged my 2000 X308 XJR for an X350 Super V8. I ran the XJR for almost 4 years and did 72k in it averaging 22mpg.
May I inquire as to what value your X308 made please?I like to look at the total cost of ownership so the car depreciated by £6k in 4 years and it took me 72k miles at 22mpg mainly on business. Class 1 insurance £400.
...AND I had the privilege of driving a V8 XJR...run a small diesel - not likely ! Now I've got a 48k miler MY2003 Super V8, which is an XJR will bells on (heated steering wheel anyone ?)
Edited by LoudV8 on Tuesday 4th February 21:08
LoudV8 said:
Jaguar steve said:
I didn't say the gearbox has no drain plug - they both do. I said the rear axle does not have one.
Woah buddy I wasn't having a go I was just expressing delight in being able to change the fluid easily, unlike the ZF box.I actually owe you for all your advice, and I did use the zip-tie method for the tensioners. Piece of the proverbial.
Ecurie Ecosse said:
Go for it, I love mine. Very fast while retaining a great feeling of old school Jaguar-ness.
They are very reliable too. I have spent quite a lot on mine, but I want to bring it back to as new condition.
Here is my Readers' Cars thread. Almost finished, just got the supercharger and transmission fluids to be changed, new front wings and rear arches and alloys refurbed and job done.
http://www.pistonheads.com/Gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Personally I would buy a cheaper car and then spend the money on the tensioners, gearbox fluid and bodywork.
As much as I enjoyed reading your story, this is the sort of car I want to avoid. I would rather pay a bit more for an already sorted one so I can just enjoy it rather than worry about rust and the like. They are very reliable too. I have spent quite a lot on mine, but I want to bring it back to as new condition.
Here is my Readers' Cars thread. Almost finished, just got the supercharger and transmission fluids to be changed, new front wings and rear arches and alloys refurbed and job done.
http://www.pistonheads.com/Gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Personally I would buy a cheaper car and then spend the money on the tensioners, gearbox fluid and bodywork.
Edited by Ecurie Ecosse on Tuesday 4th February 20:09
LoudV8 said:
Electrical gremlins - every warning light coming on, all instruments dead (except fuel I think), ABS fail warning etc etc. Many random OBD codes as well. They would clear after a restart and next time another set of random faults.
One common cause of this is as Steve said a dodgy battery but also there is a service note about the instrument cluster. It is the only place where the CANBus and SCPBus meet and there was a faulty bit of flow-soldering that caused problems. Mine was actually OK but I made sure the pcb was absolutely clean and the connectors well home. Voila - end of problems.
The wheels bearings I'm ashamed to admit came up during an MOT. I hadn't even thought about checking them, but in hindsight sometimes there was an intermittent and short lived wheel wobble during braking. The pads realigning the worn bearings I suspect. Quite a big job to replace, but interesting and I took the precaution of changing the bottom suspension arms as the ball-joints take a battering on these cars. If you're doing this ONLY use genuine Jaguar parts.
The gearbox was a bit of a bugger. Clumsy changes followed by limp home mode. Always the same OBD code. Research suggested the gearbox electrical connector and when I got underneath it was wet with ATF. £10 yes £10 for a new fitting from my local Merc dealer and genuine Merc ATF at £8 a litre. Easy job with a drain plug as the box needs draining of a couple of litres to change the elec. fitting.
This cured the problem for a couple of years then occasionally I'd get another rough change and into limp-home. No OBD codes but OK after a restart. Annoying. Further Merc forum lurking revealed common problems with that box and the conductor plate became the prime suspect. This sits in the middle of the fluid control system. £150 for a new one. I was looking forward to doing this as I like fixing things but for various reasons I decided to ditch the X308 and get an X350.
Thanks for the info, very useful One common cause of this is as Steve said a dodgy battery but also there is a service note about the instrument cluster. It is the only place where the CANBus and SCPBus meet and there was a faulty bit of flow-soldering that caused problems. Mine was actually OK but I made sure the pcb was absolutely clean and the connectors well home. Voila - end of problems.
The wheels bearings I'm ashamed to admit came up during an MOT. I hadn't even thought about checking them, but in hindsight sometimes there was an intermittent and short lived wheel wobble during braking. The pads realigning the worn bearings I suspect. Quite a big job to replace, but interesting and I took the precaution of changing the bottom suspension arms as the ball-joints take a battering on these cars. If you're doing this ONLY use genuine Jaguar parts.
The gearbox was a bit of a bugger. Clumsy changes followed by limp home mode. Always the same OBD code. Research suggested the gearbox electrical connector and when I got underneath it was wet with ATF. £10 yes £10 for a new fitting from my local Merc dealer and genuine Merc ATF at £8 a litre. Easy job with a drain plug as the box needs draining of a couple of litres to change the elec. fitting.
This cured the problem for a couple of years then occasionally I'd get another rough change and into limp-home. No OBD codes but OK after a restart. Annoying. Further Merc forum lurking revealed common problems with that box and the conductor plate became the prime suspect. This sits in the middle of the fluid control system. £150 for a new one. I was looking forward to doing this as I like fixing things but for various reasons I decided to ditch the X308 and get an X350.
PlayersNo6 said:
Loud V8/Jag Steve - is there a 'how to' anywhere on changing the secondary tensioners using just tie wraps and without the cam locking tool - or does it all become obvious once you're in there?
Jaguar Spares North East has tensioners and new (different length) bolts on the bay of E for £75Do it like this:
Make sure you have radio code and disconnect battery.
Make sure all tools contacting engine internals are scrupulously clean.
You can reuse all seals and gaskets if not damaged or brittle.
Remove the plug covers, coils and plugs. Care - coil leads are fragile. Carefully cut or drill a slot in the lug holding the dipstick tube onto the LH cam cover so you can just pull it clear of its mounting stud. Do not remove tube lower end from engine block. Remove both breather pipes and cam covers.
Turn the engine over with a 24mm socket on the crank pulley so the alignment flats at the front of the ex and in cams on each side are aligned to give you a reference point. Double check and familiarise yourself with alignment with a straight edge.
Stuff one clean rag down each side of the timing case so if you drop anything or the tensioner disintegrates when you remove it nothing can fall down into the engine.
Secure the exhaust cam chain to the ex cam sprocket and inlet cam sprocket with a couple of strong tie wraps. Loosen the two tensioner retaining bolts. Slowly loosen the ex cam bearing caps in turn and stages, chances are the cam will want to stay located in its bearings and suddenly spring out under valve spring tension when the caps are all right off, so try to ease the cam up gradually as you loosen the caps using cap positions to control it. You may have to use a wood or plastic strip to lever the cam up. Place the caps/bolts on a marker board so you can be sure they go back in exactly the same location and orientation.
Take the old tensioner bolts out and dispose. Lift/wiggle the ex cam to slacken the chain and ease the old tensioner out. Put new tensioner in place and fit new bolts. Replace the cam carefully fitting and tightening the caps in stages. Repeat on other bank then torque all bolts and remove the tensioner retaining pins. Cut tie wraps off. Make sure the area is clean and remove rags. Check cam alignment flats are in the same positions by eye then turn the engine over several times by hand and re check alignment with a straight edge. Valve spring tension means perfect alignment may not be possible but this is a useful check.
Clear calibrated breather hole on part throttle breather pipe on LH cam cover stub with 2.5mm drill bit. Clean all gaskets and mounting faces and refit covers and pipes. Refit dipstick tube sandwiching the cut lug between a couple of small washers. Refit plugs with a minute dab of Copperslip on threads and refit coils and covers.
Reconnect battery. Start up and check for oil leaks.
Open well earned beer.
Edited by Jaguar steve on Wednesday 5th February 18:16
That's fantastic Steve - just what I wanted, thanks. Will hand over your notes to my mechanic (Apols for hijacking your thread OP)
I bought the tensioners and bolts direct from NE Jag Spares, didn't know they had an ebay shop. Same price though.
I've also bought 6 litres of Mobil LT71141 from Opie Oils and a gearbox sump filter and gasket from Bristol Transmissions. Don't suppose you have a step by step or link on this too? - I gather oil temp and speed is crucial...
I bought the tensioners and bolts direct from NE Jag Spares, didn't know they had an ebay shop. Same price though.
I've also bought 6 litres of Mobil LT71141 from Opie Oils and a gearbox sump filter and gasket from Bristol Transmissions. Don't suppose you have a step by step or link on this too? - I gather oil temp and speed is crucial...
Yup. I'll write this for the ZF5HP24 gearbox which is the one in the n/a cars. Only use ESSO/MOBIL LT71141 aka Lifeguard Fluid 5 in this box. Don't use Dexron 3 or anything else.
Important to work spotlessly cleanly inside autoboxes.
You won't ever get all the old oil out - some remains in the torque converter.
Support car securely making sure it's level. Crack off but don't undo yet all the sump bolts and weir/filler hole (8mm hex) at right rear of gearbox. Once you know all the sump bolts can be undone and you can access and undo the weir hole only then remove the drain plug and drain oil.
Remove the sump pan and old filter.
Clean out the sump pan and magnets. Fit new filter and new gasket if old one damaged.
First stage fill. Pump new oil into box until oil is level and drips/trickles out of weir hole. Between 4-5 litres will go in with transmission cold and new oil at ambient temp.
That's the easy bit and can be done at your leisure. The next stage requires an assistant.
Second stage fill. Now have assistant hold foot brake on and start engine and cycle transmission slowly and repeatedly through D N R. Oil already in sump pan will be drawn up into box so level will drop. At the same time quickly add more oil with engine still running and gears still cycling until oil once again is level with weir hole. Will probably take another 1-2 litres. You have to do this last stage in just a couple of minutes before the transmission and new oil starts to heat up. Once oil drips/trickles out of weir hole again and with engine still running and gears still slowly cycling put the weir plug back in.
Only then switch engine off. If you stop the engine before you fit the weir plug or remove the weir plug without the engine running at any time all the second stage fill oil will flood out.
Additional level check. Leave transmission to cool overnight. Start up and cycle gears as before. Remove weir plug and check oil drip/trickles as before. Top up if not and replace plug. Switch off engine
No use farting about with squeezy bottles or bits of tube as second stage fill requires a fairly fast flow pump to get enough oil in before oil starts to heat up. I adapted an old washing machine waste pump to do mine which works fine. Whatever you use to pump oil you must avoid pump cavitation or air bubbles in the oil otherwise you'll get a false level indication.
Open another beer
Important to work spotlessly cleanly inside autoboxes.
You won't ever get all the old oil out - some remains in the torque converter.
Support car securely making sure it's level. Crack off but don't undo yet all the sump bolts and weir/filler hole (8mm hex) at right rear of gearbox. Once you know all the sump bolts can be undone and you can access and undo the weir hole only then remove the drain plug and drain oil.
Remove the sump pan and old filter.
Clean out the sump pan and magnets. Fit new filter and new gasket if old one damaged.
First stage fill. Pump new oil into box until oil is level and drips/trickles out of weir hole. Between 4-5 litres will go in with transmission cold and new oil at ambient temp.
That's the easy bit and can be done at your leisure. The next stage requires an assistant.
Second stage fill. Now have assistant hold foot brake on and start engine and cycle transmission slowly and repeatedly through D N R. Oil already in sump pan will be drawn up into box so level will drop. At the same time quickly add more oil with engine still running and gears still cycling until oil once again is level with weir hole. Will probably take another 1-2 litres. You have to do this last stage in just a couple of minutes before the transmission and new oil starts to heat up. Once oil drips/trickles out of weir hole again and with engine still running and gears still slowly cycling put the weir plug back in.
Only then switch engine off. If you stop the engine before you fit the weir plug or remove the weir plug without the engine running at any time all the second stage fill oil will flood out.
Additional level check. Leave transmission to cool overnight. Start up and cycle gears as before. Remove weir plug and check oil drip/trickles as before. Top up if not and replace plug. Switch off engine
No use farting about with squeezy bottles or bits of tube as second stage fill requires a fairly fast flow pump to get enough oil in before oil starts to heat up. I adapted an old washing machine waste pump to do mine which works fine. Whatever you use to pump oil you must avoid pump cavitation or air bubbles in the oil otherwise you'll get a false level indication.
Open another beer
Steve, firstly a 
your guides are great, do you have guide like this for the XJR with the Merc gearbox? I have brought a dipstick, but have heard you have to get the oil to a certain temp? Mine has 116k on it and some cold mornings the first few shifts aren't quite right - I am hoping some fresh oil will help.
your guides are great, do you have guide like this for the XJR with the Merc gearbox? I have brought a dipstick, but have heard you have to get the oil to a certain temp? Mine has 116k on it and some cold mornings the first few shifts aren't quite right - I am hoping some fresh oil will help.Gassing Station | Jaguar | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff