Best way to sell a porsche!
Discussion
Am hoping some of you guys can help me out. Despite user name I am in fact of the opposite sex.
My husband is ill. We have a very nice 993 Carrera Cabriolet. I know little about it save for fact it is Tiptronic, last of the aircooled models. Has a full service history, one owner and only 41,000. Has been driven twice this year. You get the picture. He needs to sell it but has left me to deal with it. I did a whole lot of research and it was clear that the prices vary enormously according to condition. I contacted Hendon Motors who wanted to collect it the following day as it fitted the spec they have for one of their clients. We agreed a price although he had not seen it and he assured me that he would not give me less. I got cold feet after reading some reviews on here.
My question is, is selling to a Porsche dealer the best way. I guess I don't want the hassle of having people turn up to my house and having to deal with them on my own. Second question is, should I agree to SOR?
Big thanks.
My husband is ill. We have a very nice 993 Carrera Cabriolet. I know little about it save for fact it is Tiptronic, last of the aircooled models. Has a full service history, one owner and only 41,000. Has been driven twice this year. You get the picture. He needs to sell it but has left me to deal with it. I did a whole lot of research and it was clear that the prices vary enormously according to condition. I contacted Hendon Motors who wanted to collect it the following day as it fitted the spec they have for one of their clients. We agreed a price although he had not seen it and he assured me that he would not give me less. I got cold feet after reading some reviews on here.
My question is, is selling to a Porsche dealer the best way. I guess I don't want the hassle of having people turn up to my house and having to deal with them on my own. Second question is, should I agree to SOR?
Big thanks.
Any of the regulars on here could help you with a Pistonheads advert - generally a good bunch of helpful car freaks - if you are willing to give a location I am sure somebody will be local and willing to help.
If you want minimal hassle rather than top price again if you say where you are I am sure the guys can recommend some decent indie dealers.
Good luck...if you can wait its not a good time of year to shift a cabriolet!
If you want minimal hassle rather than top price again if you say where you are I am sure the guys can recommend some decent indie dealers.
Good luck...if you can wait its not a good time of year to shift a cabriolet!
I do wonder if some of the posts on here re Hendon are wind-ups to generate a response,
but - "I contacted Hendon Motors who wanted to collect it the following day as it fitted the spec they have for one of their clients." - they say that to everyone.
If the post is genuine it might be worth considering using Phil Raby as a broker - he would get you a better price than you would get trading it in, at no hassle to yourself.
but - "I contacted Hendon Motors who wanted to collect it the following day as it fitted the spec they have for one of their clients." - they say that to everyone.
If the post is genuine it might be worth considering using Phil Raby as a broker - he would get you a better price than you would get trading it in, at no hassle to yourself.
Edited by MikeO996 on Monday 1st November 14:58
MikeO996 said:
I do wonder if some of the posts on here re Hendon are wind-ups to generate a response,
but - "I contacted Hendon Motors who wanted to collect it the following day as it fitted the spec they have for one of their clients." - they say that to everyone.
If the post is genuine it might be worth considering using Phil Raby as a broker - he would get you a better price than you would get trading it in, at no hassle to yourself.
Good idea http://www.findaporsche.com/but - "I contacted Hendon Motors who wanted to collect it the following day as it fitted the spec they have for one of their clients." - they say that to everyone.
If the post is genuine it might be worth considering using Phil Raby as a broker - he would get you a better price than you would get trading it in, at no hassle to yourself.
Edited by MikeO996 on Monday 1st November 14:58
MikeO996 said:
If the post is genuine it might be worth considering using Phil Raby as a broker - he would get you a better price than you would get trading it in, at no hassle to yourself.
+1. I used Phil's services recently and wouldn't hesitate to use him again.Edited by MikeO996 on Monday 1st November 14:58
I sold my 993 a few years back to Mark Sumpter at Paragon in Sussex. He travelled all the way upto Stafford by train to view my car and paid the price we had agreed over the phone. He's a real gent and although you get a bit less selling it this way, it really is the least stressful.
Thanks everyone for your swift responses. I can assure you that my post was genuine and that is exactly what HWM said to me. I have told him there is negative publicity and he dismisses it and says it is a disgruntled customer.
My problem is I have no idea how much the car is really worth. Research indicated values of anything from £18 to over £32K. I was delighted, but wary, when HWM said they would give me £24K and that they have taken a deposit from their client already! All in principle only.
Obviously I want to get as much as possible because of our circumstances but perhaps, as one of you suggested, I should wait until the Spring. Have just spoken to a really nice man from 911virgin who said the same thing. Problem I have is that car tax expired yesterday and it is no longer insured so I cannot tout it around.
I live in Kent so if any of you are local and would care to have a look at it in return for a glass of wine, let me know!
My problem is I have no idea how much the car is really worth. Research indicated values of anything from £18 to over £32K. I was delighted, but wary, when HWM said they would give me £24K and that they have taken a deposit from their client already! All in principle only.
Obviously I want to get as much as possible because of our circumstances but perhaps, as one of you suggested, I should wait until the Spring. Have just spoken to a really nice man from 911virgin who said the same thing. Problem I have is that car tax expired yesterday and it is no longer insured so I cannot tout it around.
I live in Kent so if any of you are local and would care to have a look at it in return for a glass of wine, let me know!
john1115 said:
By the way, who is Phil Raby.
Phil Raby editor of one of the big Porsche mags and generally accepted as a good expert...www.findaporsche.com is his website
john1115 said:
By the way, who is Phil Raby.
Phil is quite well known amongst Porsche circles and also contributes to one of the magazines.He can manage all the selling of the car for you with the objective of getting you the best price.
More details on his website here http://www.findaporsche.com
Spy said:
john1115 said:
By the way, who is Phil Raby.
Phil is quite well known amongst Porsche circles and also contributes to one of the magazines.He can manage all the selling of the car for you with the objective of getting you the best price.
More details on his website here http://www.findaporsche.com
john1115 said:
I have told him there is negative publicity and he dismisses it and says it is a disgruntled customer.
How he has dealt with you tells you everything you need to know - there is no buyer, and he certainly has no deposit. It's the line they use on everyone, and one you get from cold calls from dealers if you advertise privately - it's why you see on private ads "No dealers"On Phil, he sold my car recently and I was confident that even accounting for his commission I got (a lot) more for it than I would have trading it in - and he made it very easy.
Strange years ago bought an S8 and it was alright but last year did visit and was very concerned as I have 4 cancelled appts. It's a pity as a teenager I used to watch cars going in and out during my lunch hour and think the brand had such potential to evoke history.
On another note the reference HWM must really hack off HWM Aston Martin in Walton on Thames, this co is very well thought of and hopefully people don't confuse the 2
On another note the reference HWM must really hack off HWM Aston Martin in Walton on Thames, this co is very well thought of and hopefully people don't confuse the 2
I would say for a 1 owner car with that mileage, one owner, and being a tip, you should get £27k for it.
Like the others have said.
AVOID HWM like the plague! I have had the same story over and over - 'we have a buyer looking for a car with the exact spec as yours'
Phil Raby gets good reviews.
I would also contact JZ Machtech (Herts) who offer a very good Sale or Return package, they check and sort the car out properly, and give a warranty to the perspective buyer.
Like the others have said.
AVOID HWM like the plague! I have had the same story over and over - 'we have a buyer looking for a car with the exact spec as yours'
Phil Raby gets good reviews.
I would also contact JZ Machtech (Herts) who offer a very good Sale or Return package, they check and sort the car out properly, and give a warranty to the perspective buyer.
I have quite strong views on sale or return. We do undertake SOR deals from time to time but usually when a car is hard to value or extremely expensive. I think the 993 is a car which can usually be valued with reasonable accuracy once you've seen it.
From a dealer's point of view all SOR saves you is the cost of stocking the car. If you need to borrow the money then each £10,000 is going to cost you somewhere between £125-150 in interest for the couple of months a car is in stock. And that's all. You still have all the other costs associated with being in the business of selling cars including the dreaded Vat,advertising, insurance, buildings costs, staffing and so on.
In a lot of instances we see very optimistic figures offered when you're trying to borrow the car to try and sell it, and why not, it doesn't cost you anything to promise the earth. The garage have to offer a high price because otherwise the owner might as well just take a trade outright bid and be done with it. The problem of course comes when the car doesn't sell because it is too expensive - the garage is trying to return the customer a potentially unrealistic figure.
Keep in mind at this point the grey area of warranties with sale or return vehicles. Garages selling cars on sale or return tend to play the, "it was a customer's car, not one of ours sir", should something go wrong after purchase. This can impact on the price a buyer is prepared as against a fully guaranteed stock car. And so a catch 22 arises. We have bought a lot of cars which have been previously unsuccessfully marketed on a sale or return basis failing to sell.
Sale or return does also come with a few potential risks. The most obvious risk is that if the dealer sells your car then does a runner with the money you have a problem. But what happens if a perfectly well intentioned company goes out of business without and money left? You will lose your car! Just as with the catch 22 of trying to return too high a price dealers selling cars on SOR will often offer to sell the car for what seems a very reasonable price. This very reasonable commission may not be enough to support the business. So the risk of a business folding is potentially higher.
Some places offer to sell your car as a bit of a sideline to their main business. The thinking behind this is that there is less chance of them going bump, any profit being seen as a bonus. Their core income stream could of course run into trouble. But my biggest concern would be what happens if a problem arises with the mechanics of the sale. The car is damaged, stolen or fraudulently taken from the seller. Would the person have enough equity to write you out a cheque for the car which they damaged, had pinched, gave away? The fact they could only work by borrowing your car implies possibly not. Again, the sad thing is the company or individual didn't set out to do anything wrong, they were themselves victims.
I'm sorry if my post post is a negative one and I am aware I am setting myself up for the usual suspects to come along telling me I'm scaremongering, it's alright for us because we are in a position to buy cars and so on. The reason I have posted is because Pistonheads is a great source of information and a lot of people take what's written as gospel. I would hate to see someone get caught out on the back of some posts they read on the Internet.
As I said earlier on we do get involved in SOR or commission sales when appropriate and there are times when it is a very worthwhile tool in the armoury for a number of reasons but it isn't the magic sticking plaster it's made out to be sometimes.
We have a bit of a guide on our website which might be worth a read. http://www.911virgin.com/content/saleorreturn/
Once again I am sorry if the post is a negative one, it may save someone tens of thousands of pounds. There are many times when SOR works well and I have no doubt people will come on here extolling it's virtues. The problem is that victims usually feel so embarrassed that they suffer in silence.
Keep smiling
Henry
From a dealer's point of view all SOR saves you is the cost of stocking the car. If you need to borrow the money then each £10,000 is going to cost you somewhere between £125-150 in interest for the couple of months a car is in stock. And that's all. You still have all the other costs associated with being in the business of selling cars including the dreaded Vat,advertising, insurance, buildings costs, staffing and so on.
In a lot of instances we see very optimistic figures offered when you're trying to borrow the car to try and sell it, and why not, it doesn't cost you anything to promise the earth. The garage have to offer a high price because otherwise the owner might as well just take a trade outright bid and be done with it. The problem of course comes when the car doesn't sell because it is too expensive - the garage is trying to return the customer a potentially unrealistic figure.
Keep in mind at this point the grey area of warranties with sale or return vehicles. Garages selling cars on sale or return tend to play the, "it was a customer's car, not one of ours sir", should something go wrong after purchase. This can impact on the price a buyer is prepared as against a fully guaranteed stock car. And so a catch 22 arises. We have bought a lot of cars which have been previously unsuccessfully marketed on a sale or return basis failing to sell.
Sale or return does also come with a few potential risks. The most obvious risk is that if the dealer sells your car then does a runner with the money you have a problem. But what happens if a perfectly well intentioned company goes out of business without and money left? You will lose your car! Just as with the catch 22 of trying to return too high a price dealers selling cars on SOR will often offer to sell the car for what seems a very reasonable price. This very reasonable commission may not be enough to support the business. So the risk of a business folding is potentially higher.
Some places offer to sell your car as a bit of a sideline to their main business. The thinking behind this is that there is less chance of them going bump, any profit being seen as a bonus. Their core income stream could of course run into trouble. But my biggest concern would be what happens if a problem arises with the mechanics of the sale. The car is damaged, stolen or fraudulently taken from the seller. Would the person have enough equity to write you out a cheque for the car which they damaged, had pinched, gave away? The fact they could only work by borrowing your car implies possibly not. Again, the sad thing is the company or individual didn't set out to do anything wrong, they were themselves victims.
I'm sorry if my post post is a negative one and I am aware I am setting myself up for the usual suspects to come along telling me I'm scaremongering, it's alright for us because we are in a position to buy cars and so on. The reason I have posted is because Pistonheads is a great source of information and a lot of people take what's written as gospel. I would hate to see someone get caught out on the back of some posts they read on the Internet.
As I said earlier on we do get involved in SOR or commission sales when appropriate and there are times when it is a very worthwhile tool in the armoury for a number of reasons but it isn't the magic sticking plaster it's made out to be sometimes.
We have a bit of a guide on our website which might be worth a read. http://www.911virgin.com/content/saleorreturn/
Once again I am sorry if the post is a negative one, it may save someone tens of thousands of pounds. There are many times when SOR works well and I have no doubt people will come on here extolling it's virtues. The problem is that victims usually feel so embarrassed that they suffer in silence.
Keep smiling
Henry
Edited by Henry-F on Monday 1st November 20:41
Firstly, I am very sorry to hear that the circumstances are as you describe which lead you to the need or desire to sell.
Secondly, as others have said, there are plenty of people on the forum who will provide good and honest advice, much of which has been outlined earlier, whether with regard to crafting a PH advert for a private sale or on who to deal with when "selling through".
Thirdly, if the car is out of tax and insurance, suggest that you renew both - the cost of doing so is minimal compared to the suspicion it can raise of why it is not.
Finally, if a dealer tells you that your car is exactly the specification that they are seeking for a client, ask yourself whether you would believe an estate agent telling you the same thing about your house when they haven't even seen it....
All the best and good luck,
MG Mark
Secondly, as others have said, there are plenty of people on the forum who will provide good and honest advice, much of which has been outlined earlier, whether with regard to crafting a PH advert for a private sale or on who to deal with when "selling through".
Thirdly, if the car is out of tax and insurance, suggest that you renew both - the cost of doing so is minimal compared to the suspicion it can raise of why it is not.
Finally, if a dealer tells you that your car is exactly the specification that they are seeking for a client, ask yourself whether you would believe an estate agent telling you the same thing about your house when they haven't even seen it....
All the best and good luck,
MG Mark
Chaps-here is why this thread is a load of BS. The OPs first post is 'as the wife' but has a username John, signed up 1 Nov. Freely states they know the dealer is dodgey but handed the car over anyway.
I'm disappointed so many have responded and not seen this. Who is dumb enough to believe anyone who owns a sort after 993 leaves teh complete sale to someone else who knows nowt about them and then gives the car to the most suspect dealer in the land- Ry_B is that you lmfao
I'm disappointed so many have responded and not seen this. Who is dumb enough to believe anyone who owns a sort after 993 leaves teh complete sale to someone else who knows nowt about them and then gives the car to the most suspect dealer in the land- Ry_B is that you lmfao
burwoodman said:
Chaps-here is why this thread is a load of BS. The OPs first post is 'as the wife' but has a username John, signed up 1 Nov. Freely states they know the dealer is dodgey but handed the car over anyway.
I'm disappointed so many have responded and not seen this. Who is dumb enough to believe anyone who owns a sort after 993 leaves teh complete sale to someone else who knows nowt about them and then gives the car to the most suspect dealer in the land- Ry_B is that you lmfao
No one knows really, but he/she didn't say they handed over the car, just that a price was agreed, and they then backed out. Seems like it could be a genuine request, what do we lose by giving a bit of free advice to someone that may be in need? It's fine to be cynical but you never know...I'm disappointed so many have responded and not seen this. Who is dumb enough to believe anyone who owns a sort after 993 leaves teh complete sale to someone else who knows nowt about them and then gives the car to the most suspect dealer in the land- Ry_B is that you lmfao
I sold my car to Henry when I needed a quick sale and he gave me a fair price. My car actually had a problem (wheel bearing went) when being delivered to Henry, which they sorted and then put on the showroom floor (to to speak) saving me hassle and time. I recommend that you deal with someone respected and who has a good reputation and you will be fine.
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