Nigel and the 'buried bodies'...
Discussion
Just read this piece from Autosport's web site and it contains some very interesting comments from Nigel, makes a sobering read...
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Nigel Stepney's full account of the affair:
"The first sign of a potential problem came in September last year when Ross Brawn said he would be taking a sabbatical and the technical management structure would be changing.
"I wanted to report to Aldo Costa, the head of chassis design. He was the right person to respond to. I didn't want to respond to Mario Almondo, the new technical director.
"By mid February, the relationship had started to break down. I couldn't work with them. I missed the one-to-one relationship with Ross. He knew exactly what I could do; I always had 100 per cent support from Ross. Now I had four or five people to report to. It was very frustrating.
"I told Jean Todt I didn't want to travel any more. I wanted to sit back and consider the future. Ferrari took that badly.
"My role became head of performance development based at the factory. I began to feel like I was some sort of traitor, just because I no longer wanted to travel.
"At that stage, I wasn't looking anywhere else. But whenever I discussed anything with people in the factory in the course of doing my job, it got fed back to senior management. People became scared to talk to me.
"I was put in a position where it was difficult to do my job. By the end of March the situation was unbearable. I started to look at other teams, and approached [Honda team chief] Nick Fry.
"I met up with Mike [Coughlan] at the end of April. I'd had one meeting with Nick and didn't want to go into a second one alone.
"At first, Mike wasn't looking at a move, although he was unhappy with the McLaren management. Then, three or four people at Ferrari indicated to me, after reading stories of my approach to Honda, that they would be interested in joining a technical group to go to another team. They wanted to follow us to go into a structure in which they felt comfortable.
"I categorically deny that any technical information passed between Mike and I during that meeting, or at any time.
"We mainly discussed the sort of infrastructure and tools we would need to get the job done in another team. I saw the future as helping to put such a structure into place at Honda.
"You don't just take one team's structure and bang it into another team. These things have to evolve, but Mike and I agreed to pool our expertise and talked about what we could bring to a team.
"Then we met Nick Fry together on 1 June at Heathrow.
"On 17 May, when there were legal moves against me by Ferrari, people were taken from the factory to the Carabinieri (Italian police) headquarters to be interviewed, but no charges were made against anyone.
"My house in Serramazzoni has been raided twice.
"After the thing with the Carabinieri, I called Jean Todt to say I was going on holiday to the Philippines - I'd filled in the relevant form but it was on my desk and I hadn't handed it in - and wouldn't be coming back until this was all sorted out. We haven't spoken since.
"I admit it looks blatantly obvious, but something is happening inside Ferrari.
"I was accused by Mario Almondo of taking some drawings. I had them in my possession legitimately because I needed them for work on the simulator, but it was reported to him by the drawing office that I had them. I got the papers and threw them on Almondo's desk. The next day they were back on mine!
"I categorically deny that I copied them, or that I sent them to Mike Coughlan. I knew I was being watched all the time at the factory and that everything I did or said was being reported back and that people knew whenever I accessed files on the computer.
"I have no idea how anything came into Mike's possession. I don't even know for sure that he has had documents. Do you know for sure? Categorically, he didn't get them from me. If he has some, then they came from another source.
"I would be a bit stupid to go anywhere if I had such material, wouldn't I? I put a lot of the systems and working practices in place at Ferrari, relating to the operations of the test and race teams and the preparation of the cars, information I am told was supposed to be in the documents.
"I had worked on them with Ross and Aldo Costa. So if I already had all that material in my head, why would I need it all again? I am seriously doubtful that Mike has these documents.
"I have nothing to hide; I might as well have left the keys to my house with the caretaker so anyone from Ferrari could go in.
"Ferrari is terrified that what I have in my mind is valuable. I guess I know where the bodies are buried from the last ten years; and there were a lot of controversies in that time.
"But do you think (chief designer) Nicolas Tombazis came to Ferrari from McLaren without something in his mind? The new Ferrari front end aero came from McLaren, because it was in his head.
"I'm just a bit confused. I was never a yes man and as soon as I went against the system at Ferrari, I got squeezed.
"I started to get the blame for things, and began to feel framed. I have been accused, but have not been charged with anything; right now, there is just an investigation. But I feel like I am in the wilderness.
"Ferrari is unique in Italy; it's a religion. If you go against it, it's like going against the Vatican.
"I'm anxious, naturally, but I haven't done anything wrong and I believe in the legal system in Italy."
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Some interesting observations I note from the above:
Who actually sent the doucments to Mike Coughlan?
We always thought that Ferrari cheated in the past, so what are these 'buried bodies' that Nigel talks of?
If they come to light will this effect Michael's reputation as well as Ferrari, and is it for this reason that Ferrari is so worried?
Interesting comment on McLaren front end aero now integrated into Ferrari due to Nicolas Tombazis move to Ferrari from McLaren...
I can't wait for Nigel to go public and spill the beans...
Could it really be that bad for Ferrari?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Nigel Stepney's full account of the affair:
"The first sign of a potential problem came in September last year when Ross Brawn said he would be taking a sabbatical and the technical management structure would be changing.
"I wanted to report to Aldo Costa, the head of chassis design. He was the right person to respond to. I didn't want to respond to Mario Almondo, the new technical director.
"By mid February, the relationship had started to break down. I couldn't work with them. I missed the one-to-one relationship with Ross. He knew exactly what I could do; I always had 100 per cent support from Ross. Now I had four or five people to report to. It was very frustrating.
"I told Jean Todt I didn't want to travel any more. I wanted to sit back and consider the future. Ferrari took that badly.
"My role became head of performance development based at the factory. I began to feel like I was some sort of traitor, just because I no longer wanted to travel.
"At that stage, I wasn't looking anywhere else. But whenever I discussed anything with people in the factory in the course of doing my job, it got fed back to senior management. People became scared to talk to me.
"I was put in a position where it was difficult to do my job. By the end of March the situation was unbearable. I started to look at other teams, and approached [Honda team chief] Nick Fry.
"I met up with Mike [Coughlan] at the end of April. I'd had one meeting with Nick and didn't want to go into a second one alone.
"At first, Mike wasn't looking at a move, although he was unhappy with the McLaren management. Then, three or four people at Ferrari indicated to me, after reading stories of my approach to Honda, that they would be interested in joining a technical group to go to another team. They wanted to follow us to go into a structure in which they felt comfortable.
"I categorically deny that any technical information passed between Mike and I during that meeting, or at any time.
"We mainly discussed the sort of infrastructure and tools we would need to get the job done in another team. I saw the future as helping to put such a structure into place at Honda.
"You don't just take one team's structure and bang it into another team. These things have to evolve, but Mike and I agreed to pool our expertise and talked about what we could bring to a team.
"Then we met Nick Fry together on 1 June at Heathrow.
"On 17 May, when there were legal moves against me by Ferrari, people were taken from the factory to the Carabinieri (Italian police) headquarters to be interviewed, but no charges were made against anyone.
"My house in Serramazzoni has been raided twice.
"After the thing with the Carabinieri, I called Jean Todt to say I was going on holiday to the Philippines - I'd filled in the relevant form but it was on my desk and I hadn't handed it in - and wouldn't be coming back until this was all sorted out. We haven't spoken since.
"I admit it looks blatantly obvious, but something is happening inside Ferrari.
"I was accused by Mario Almondo of taking some drawings. I had them in my possession legitimately because I needed them for work on the simulator, but it was reported to him by the drawing office that I had them. I got the papers and threw them on Almondo's desk. The next day they were back on mine!
"I categorically deny that I copied them, or that I sent them to Mike Coughlan. I knew I was being watched all the time at the factory and that everything I did or said was being reported back and that people knew whenever I accessed files on the computer.
"I have no idea how anything came into Mike's possession. I don't even know for sure that he has had documents. Do you know for sure? Categorically, he didn't get them from me. If he has some, then they came from another source.
"I would be a bit stupid to go anywhere if I had such material, wouldn't I? I put a lot of the systems and working practices in place at Ferrari, relating to the operations of the test and race teams and the preparation of the cars, information I am told was supposed to be in the documents.
"I had worked on them with Ross and Aldo Costa. So if I already had all that material in my head, why would I need it all again? I am seriously doubtful that Mike has these documents.
"I have nothing to hide; I might as well have left the keys to my house with the caretaker so anyone from Ferrari could go in.
"Ferrari is terrified that what I have in my mind is valuable. I guess I know where the bodies are buried from the last ten years; and there were a lot of controversies in that time.
"But do you think (chief designer) Nicolas Tombazis came to Ferrari from McLaren without something in his mind? The new Ferrari front end aero came from McLaren, because it was in his head.
"I'm just a bit confused. I was never a yes man and as soon as I went against the system at Ferrari, I got squeezed.
"I started to get the blame for things, and began to feel framed. I have been accused, but have not been charged with anything; right now, there is just an investigation. But I feel like I am in the wilderness.
"Ferrari is unique in Italy; it's a religion. If you go against it, it's like going against the Vatican.
"I'm anxious, naturally, but I haven't done anything wrong and I believe in the legal system in Italy."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Some interesting observations I note from the above:
Who actually sent the doucments to Mike Coughlan?
We always thought that Ferrari cheated in the past, so what are these 'buried bodies' that Nigel talks of?
If they come to light will this effect Michael's reputation as well as Ferrari, and is it for this reason that Ferrari is so worried?
Interesting comment on McLaren front end aero now integrated into Ferrari due to Nicolas Tombazis move to Ferrari from McLaren...
I can't wait for Nigel to go public and spill the beans...
Could it really be that bad for Ferrari?If what Nigel says is true then that's got to be the end of Ferrari's competitiveness for some time. The reason Ferrari have been at the top for so long, apart from the money of course, is that the team seemed to work as a unit. What Nigel describes is a collapse of the personel infrastructure, or whatever the management speak is for internal organisation of staff. Everyone said that the team would miss Ross but is his absence the cause of this disintegration? Or is it Schuey going? Or is it too many Italians?
It's really quite sad, not only for Nigel but for the sport as a whole.
There's that old management belief that correcting a fault is so much more difficult than finding someone to blame.
It's really quite sad, not only for Nigel but for the sport as a whole.
There's that old management belief that correcting a fault is so much more difficult than finding someone to blame.
Derek Smith said:
If what Nigel says is true then that's got to be the end of Ferrari's competitiveness for some time. The reason Ferrari have been at the top for so long, apart from the money of course, is that the team seemed to work as a unit. What Nigel describes is a collapse of the personel infrastructure, or whatever the management speak is for internal organisation of staff. Everyone said that the team would miss Ross but is his absence the cause of this disintegration? Or is it Schuey going? Or is it too many Italians?
It's really quite sad, not only for Nigel but for the sport as a whole.
There's that old management belief that correcting a fault is so much more difficult than finding someone to blame.
Exactly what I was thinking. Even at best, Jean Todt has marginalised an employee which is not the best way to run a team. Are Ferrari in danger of heading back to their old ways?It's really quite sad, not only for Nigel but for the sport as a whole.
There's that old management belief that correcting a fault is so much more difficult than finding someone to blame.
kevin ritson said:
Derek Smith said:
If what Nigel says is true then that's got to be the end of Ferrari's competitiveness for some time. The reason Ferrari have been at the top for so long, apart from the money of course, is that the team seemed to work as a unit.
Exactly what I was thinking. Even at best, Jean Todt has marginalised an employee which is not the best way to run a team. Are Ferrari in danger of heading back to their old ways?
Todt, Brawn and Schumacher turned Ferrari from the Italian soap opera it was in the early '90s into an Italian family (personally, I respect Michael for that much more than for his on-track behaviour). This really does indicate a return of the bad old days at Maranello.
Very interesting.
Thinking about it, if I was Nick Fry/Honda I'd be gutted.
They had the man responsible for Ferrari's operations and systems (something they're clearly lacking in) a top drawer designer (something they're also missing) and several members of Ferrari's multi-championship technical team all waiting in the wings ready to form a super team at Honda
Then this whole spy thing kicks off and it all goes tits-up!
IMO Honda have been lacking in all these areas for years and need something like Coughlan and Stepney were offering to get into winning ways. Now, when it looked like they were getting it, it's all blown out of the water.
Talk about bonfire pissed-on....
Thinking about it, if I was Nick Fry/Honda I'd be gutted.
They had the man responsible for Ferrari's operations and systems (something they're clearly lacking in) a top drawer designer (something they're also missing) and several members of Ferrari's multi-championship technical team all waiting in the wings ready to form a super team at Honda
Then this whole spy thing kicks off and it all goes tits-up!
IMO Honda have been lacking in all these areas for years and need something like Coughlan and Stepney were offering to get into winning ways. Now, when it looked like they were getting it, it's all blown out of the water.
Talk about bonfire pissed-on....
tank slapper said:
Interesting to read Stepney's point of view. I wonder if he is banking on the knowledge of bodies buried to help persuade Ferrari to leave him alone. Depending on what he knows he could cause them problems.
Lets hope they leave him alone rather than him finding a horses head in his bed Muzzer said:
Very interesting.
Thinking about it, if I was Nick Fry/Honda I'd be gutted.
They had the man responsible for Ferrari's operations and systems (something they're clearly lacking in) a top drawer designer (something they're also missing) and several members of Ferrari's multi-championship technical team all waiting in the wings ready to form a super team at Honda
Then this whole spy thing kicks off and it all goes tits-up!
IMO Honda have been lacking in all these areas for years and need something like Coughlan and Stepney were offering to get into winning ways. Now, when it looked like they were getting it, it's all blown out of the water.
Talk about bonfire pissed-on....
Certainly. However, if I was Nick Fry, and assuming one or other of Stepney and Coughlan don't get banged up over this... I'd be wondering if it might still be worth a punt? After all, they've presumably been trying everything else for three years with no results - what've they got to lose?! Thinking about it, if I was Nick Fry/Honda I'd be gutted.
They had the man responsible for Ferrari's operations and systems (something they're clearly lacking in) a top drawer designer (something they're also missing) and several members of Ferrari's multi-championship technical team all waiting in the wings ready to form a super team at Honda
Then this whole spy thing kicks off and it all goes tits-up!
IMO Honda have been lacking in all these areas for years and need something like Coughlan and Stepney were offering to get into winning ways. Now, when it looked like they were getting it, it's all blown out of the water.
Talk about bonfire pissed-on....
flemke said:
Graham said:
I'd have thought it was going to be a lot cheaper for Honda to get hold of those guys now actually..
Yes, but unless the truth is different from what we've been led to believe, they'll be banned from F1 and perhaps all FIA-sanctioned activites for a good while.They're reputations may be tarnished in some circles, no matter what the outcome so would it still be do-able or has that horse bolted?
Tough call. I'd say yes to Stepney (if absolved) and the un-named technical crew but no to Coughlan - his gun is well and truly smoking....
Muzzer said:
Assuming they're not, would it still be worth Honda going for it?
They're reputations may be tarnished in some circles, no matter what the outcome so would it still be do-able or has that horse bolted?
Tough call. I'd say yes to Stepney (if absolved) and the un-named technical crew but no to Coughlan - his gun is well and truly smoking....
Even if they are tainted, being able to put together the systems and infrastructure to be able to win races and world championshps is the most valuable commidity in F1, they'd still be worth a punt.They're reputations may be tarnished in some circles, no matter what the outcome so would it still be do-able or has that horse bolted?
Tough call. I'd say yes to Stepney (if absolved) and the un-named technical crew but no to Coughlan - his gun is well and truly smoking....
Besides, within 12-24 months no one would remember (let alone care) anyway!
The only thing that could taint Stepney's employment potential is if he does indeed 'spill the beans'. The ability to trust a senior employee with secrets that could harm the company is an essential. The days when team managers could boast about breaking rules to win - Colin Chapman springs to mind - are long gone.
The whole scenario of Ferrari attacking Stepney so publicly is quite a surpise to me. I would have assumed that both parties have enough evidence to assure the destruction of the other. It was suggested - by everyone in the know - that Ferrari were running traction control when it was outlawed but it could not be proven. Mind you, what is the point of banning something you can't detect? But if someone had proof of deliberate and systematic cheating, and not just what appears to be at worst mere opportunism, then it would be serious indeed. Stepney, or anyone with a grudge, would only have to put themselves in a postion where they are legally obliged to tell the truth, in a court for instance, then who could blame them for spilling the beans?
This has been a risky move by Ferrari and, at the moment, it does not appear to have paid off. Let's hope they have the sense to let it rest and we can go back to enjoying what promises to be one of the most exciting Championships for years.
Last weekend's race was thrilling, although perhaps not a classic, and it was rounded off with an hilarious awards ceremony which had a little aperitif at the weigh-in. Or is that weigh-out? That's what makes F1 compulsory viewing, not law courts and enquiries.
The whole scenario of Ferrari attacking Stepney so publicly is quite a surpise to me. I would have assumed that both parties have enough evidence to assure the destruction of the other. It was suggested - by everyone in the know - that Ferrari were running traction control when it was outlawed but it could not be proven. Mind you, what is the point of banning something you can't detect? But if someone had proof of deliberate and systematic cheating, and not just what appears to be at worst mere opportunism, then it would be serious indeed. Stepney, or anyone with a grudge, would only have to put themselves in a postion where they are legally obliged to tell the truth, in a court for instance, then who could blame them for spilling the beans?
This has been a risky move by Ferrari and, at the moment, it does not appear to have paid off. Let's hope they have the sense to let it rest and we can go back to enjoying what promises to be one of the most exciting Championships for years.
Last weekend's race was thrilling, although perhaps not a classic, and it was rounded off with an hilarious awards ceremony which had a little aperitif at the weigh-in. Or is that weigh-out? That's what makes F1 compulsory viewing, not law courts and enquiries.
Muzzer said:
Very interesting.
Thinking about it, if I was Nick Fry/Honda I'd be gutted.
They had the man responsible for Ferrari's operations and systems (something they're clearly lacking in) a top drawer designer (something they're also missing) and several members of Ferrari's multi-championship technical team all waiting in the wings ready to form a super team at Honda
Then this whole spy thing kicks off and it all goes tits-up!
IMO Honda have been lacking in all these areas for years and need something like Coughlan and Stepney were offering to get into winning ways. Now, when it looked like they were getting it, it's all blown out of the water.
Talk about bonfire pissed-on....
Sounds like it has been quite fortunate for Ferrari that all of this was discovered before NS & MC and half the Ferrari technical team were drafted into Honda. Thinking about it, if I was Nick Fry/Honda I'd be gutted.
They had the man responsible for Ferrari's operations and systems (something they're clearly lacking in) a top drawer designer (something they're also missing) and several members of Ferrari's multi-championship technical team all waiting in the wings ready to form a super team at Honda
Then this whole spy thing kicks off and it all goes tits-up!
IMO Honda have been lacking in all these areas for years and need something like Coughlan and Stepney were offering to get into winning ways. Now, when it looked like they were getting it, it's all blown out of the water.
Talk about bonfire pissed-on....
I wonder how Ferrari new where to look for the smoking gun? Presumably both NS & MC would have kept pretty quiet over any conspiracy? Unless anything was mentioned to Fry?
The world loves a good conspiracy.....
Derek Smith said:
Let's hope they have the sense to let it rest and we can go back to enjoying what promises to be one of the most exciting Championships for years.
I doubt I'm the only one who would like to see Ferrari's Machiavellian happenings aired in public. So I for one am hoping it doesn't rest, and that they get spanked off the track as well as on it
Andy M said:
I doubt I'm the only one who would like to see Ferrari's Machiavellian happenings aired in public.
So I for one am hoping it doesn't rest, and that they get spanked off the track as well as on it
Funny you should mention that.So I for one am hoping it doesn't rest, and that they get spanked off the track as well as on it
From today's Autosport:
"Salo clarifies Ferrari spying comment
Saturday, July 28th 2007, 12:53 GMT
Former Ferrari driver Mika Salo on Saturday clarified comments made to a Finnish newspaper suggesting that the Italian team had routinely spied on Formula One rivals McLaren in the past.
"What has been published in Ilta-Sanomat does not match the thoughts I wanted to express," the Finn said in a clarification provided by Ferrari.
"I would therefore like to make it clear that I was only referring to Formula One in the late nineties, when radio technology was still at an almost amateurish level, which meant it could happen that some radio conversations could be listened to randomly because of interference."
Salo was quoted on Friday, after a hearing of the sport's governing body into a spy controversy that has gripped Formula One, as saying that when he drove for Ferrari "we always spied on McLaren, listening to their radio traffic.
"After every practice session I had in front of me, on paper, all the discussions Mika Hakkinen had had with his engineer."
Amateurish communications? My arse!
Each team had wizards of the black art on their squad (radio engineers) who looked after their stuff, and it was partly their job to ensure that nobody interfered with their own comms, and of course, you wouldn't dare leave the "test equipment" (scanner!) turned on in the race truck during a race weekend so chassis/engine engineers could hear the goings on of another team.... that just wasn't done.
much.
Ferrari wouldn't have been able to hear Hakkinen's communications on their regular radio's when Salo was driving the red car. The Italian squad were using equipment fitted with encryption systems developed for them by Mossad (so we were told at the time!).
Ferrari now use TETRA - a digital system which is encrypted, and secure (as used by the Police, and soon all emergency services in the UK)
So much for the WMSC ruling that all radio traffic be clear and unencrypted available for all to receive.
F1 teams pay photographers bags of cash to snap as many pics of rival cars as they can, those pics are then analysed, and scrutinised to see if their rivals have done anything clever (which works) that they can either copy, or protest.
I still maintain that this is all a smokescreen. My conspiracy theory still stands, and the whole thing is the other way around.
Coggers saw that Ferrari were without a coherent design team, the car was pants without the dodgy wobbly floor. Mike was "employed" by Ferrari to fix it, as an "apprentice piece", and if he did a good job, the position was his. However, he got found out (having the Ferrari document) and operation "arsecovering" took over. The red cars were back on the pace, and Ron didn't know his own designer was ready to switch camps. Nigel, being the great Ferrari man he is, offered to be the "fall guy" at Maranello in the event of it all getting out, and well, it did, so once this is all over, he'll quietly slip away on gardening leave, and come back wearing a false beard under an assumed name.
The "buried bodies" - a smoke screen to throw the media off the scent.
Laugh? I nearly passed the fags 'round.
Each team had wizards of the black art on their squad (radio engineers) who looked after their stuff, and it was partly their job to ensure that nobody interfered with their own comms, and of course, you wouldn't dare leave the "test equipment" (scanner!) turned on in the race truck during a race weekend so chassis/engine engineers could hear the goings on of another team.... that just wasn't done.
much.
Ferrari wouldn't have been able to hear Hakkinen's communications on their regular radio's when Salo was driving the red car. The Italian squad were using equipment fitted with encryption systems developed for them by Mossad (so we were told at the time!).
Ferrari now use TETRA - a digital system which is encrypted, and secure (as used by the Police, and soon all emergency services in the UK)
So much for the WMSC ruling that all radio traffic be clear and unencrypted available for all to receive.
F1 teams pay photographers bags of cash to snap as many pics of rival cars as they can, those pics are then analysed, and scrutinised to see if their rivals have done anything clever (which works) that they can either copy, or protest.
I still maintain that this is all a smokescreen. My conspiracy theory still stands, and the whole thing is the other way around.
Coggers saw that Ferrari were without a coherent design team, the car was pants without the dodgy wobbly floor. Mike was "employed" by Ferrari to fix it, as an "apprentice piece", and if he did a good job, the position was his. However, he got found out (having the Ferrari document) and operation "arsecovering" took over. The red cars were back on the pace, and Ron didn't know his own designer was ready to switch camps. Nigel, being the great Ferrari man he is, offered to be the "fall guy" at Maranello in the event of it all getting out, and well, it did, so once this is all over, he'll quietly slip away on gardening leave, and come back wearing a false beard under an assumed name.
The "buried bodies" - a smoke screen to throw the media off the scent.
Laugh? I nearly passed the fags 'round.
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