PCGB CENSORSHIP TODAY- PISTONHEADS TOMORROW ?

[Brett928S2]

Hi ALL

Please read my post below that has been deleted many times from the PCGB forum, in the last few hours....

In particular read the part about Pistonheads etc...

Apologies for its length, but its complicated...lol


................................................................

Quote >>>>

Moderator forced into Resignation

Now posted in open forums as the moderators were stupid enough to put all my posts as "awaiting approval", lol they REALLY ARE NOT VERY BRIGHT

Print this now before its deleted !!!!!

Message to moderators at bottom of post.

If you would like to please post this into all forums here yourself

Hi All

For those who do not know me, I “WAS” the 928 Forum Moderator….my name is Brett Ainley and

I own a Computer company, as some of you may know , I am VERY good with computers and the

Internet, shall we say lol…

I have been forced into resignation by Peter Bull…through the auspices of Porsche GB and

Porsche AG leaning on the PCGB board….

The “new” moderators have been hmmm let’s say “economical with the truth” regarding why

these new rules have suddenly arrived and why the Forum is now heavily censored…

I have seen certain Emails regarding the discussions between Porsche GB and our board

(thanks to the person who sent them to me), and basically they gave our board two choices…

1, Close down the forum completely or Porsche would pull out of the COC and we would lose

the 150k a year….

2, Or heavily censor the forum so absolutely no criticism of Porsche appears on it…such as

the stuff about 997 engines blowing up etc….and the other recent condemnations and

criticisms of Opc`s and pricing…. or Porsche would pull out of the COC and we would lose

the 150k a year….and also that ALL reference to any other businesses would be removed from

all postings.

The board decided on option 2 as they were scared that the PCGB would go broke if Porsche

pulled the money and did not have the guts to tell Porsche where to stick it…they also did

not think we could afford the legal costs if they did not accede to Porsche’s “request/order”….

The “remove commercial links” from signatures is a partial diversion that is MEANT to

disguise the other censorship that is going on in the background….ANY reference to a

current model in the way of criticism WILL be removed….and some threads have had posts

already removed….which is why they don’t make sense anymore…


By the way this was started BEFORE THE AGM and WORKERS CONFERENCE…..and the board “sort of forgot” to mention it there…..

So to summarise, you (reading this) are now on Porsche GB`S Forum….NOT the Pcgb`s …

Now to me…


I had agreed to remove my email link in my signature which was

[e-mail]

Note it was NOT a www link to my companies website it was just a link to open your email program…

I agreed to remove it, on condition that I could put a sticky in the 928 forum with my

mobile number and the same email address in the sticky, so that 928 owners who needed to

get in touch with me urgently could….

This was agreed with John Sims who “said” the other moderators had also agreed…I have ALL

the emails from John Sims to prove this….

The next morning the link was removed by Peter Bull (and WHO did appoint him as a moderator

without anyone knowing the procedure or why, by the way?)…The answer is the board by the

way, although they will claim that he was “always” a forum moderator…lol….he now TELLS the

other moderators what to do….

They BROKE their word to me so, as they wanted (and as THEY INTENDED) I RESIGNED…

Now you may think that’s a good idea lol…

But I will also not renew my membership and will also stop attending my local meetings

which I hugely enjoy, I will also stop my sponsorship to my local region (printing, prizes

etc etc) That will cost the local region around £700 a year. With the discounts I gave

members the total loss is probably around £1000 plus a year…

Was it worth it, you decide….

Now possibly you might think this is a ONE OFF, BUT I DO NOT…

Censorship is a VERY slippery slope….

Here is my favourite poem that they also censored/deleted from the “OUR FORUM” thread along

with several other posts by myself AND OTHERS which “they” did not like….

First They Came for the Jews

First they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for the Communists and I did not speak out because I was not a Communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for me and there was no one left to speak out for me.

Pastor Martin Niemöller

I suspect I will be the first of many….


Personally I thought it was the PCGB`s Forum but apparently Porsche GB think otherwise….

So watch your backs guys and gals, YOU could be next….and probably will be….see poem….

To all 928 owners, sorry guys/gals, I have done my best for you for 2 ½ years now and I

hope I have helped you where I could.

They left me no choice, “ which was precisely what they wanted, “they” have no idea of

loyalty, unlike 928 owners, so bye for now and will see you at Castle Coombe or in one of

the other UNCENSORED forums....

At least now I will have more time for my 200 mph plus record attempts (which may be televised)

All the best Brett

P.S. This post will vanish as soon as the “NEW MODERATORS” find it so please copy it to

anyone you can think of, if you believe in this Forum belonging to its MEMBERS and believe

in Freedom of Speech.

By the way. I “hear” that Pistonheads, Tipec, Rennlist, Titanic etc are next on the list….for Porsche “pressure”

Of course if the Moderators believe in Freedom of Speech and not Censorship it will still

be here tomorrow…..unlikely I know lol

MESSAGE FOR THE MODERATORS…IF you leave this alone for discussion in the Members only

section, I will not post it elsewhere…..if you don’t…..I really hope you have a big fan lol.

I would advise you to consult a “board member” BEFORE you delete this as their masters may

just prefer this stays in a private forum…..

By the way, please don’t be surprised if I do not answer any posts on this but you can guess what’s about to happen to my right as a PCGB member to post here on Porsche Gb`s forum…lol

Good luck all

All the best Brett.

End quote....

All the best Brett

p.s this is not about the PCGB, its about what I suspect is about to happen to Pistonheads as well

[phatgixer]

Why do manufacturers do this. So short sighted. BMW UK did similar things to a website that had 6,000 members, pissing them all off. Madness.

[bcnrml]

Great reminder of the Pastor......

Great position on a fine principle

Porsche must be having a difficult time. I wonder why?

Here's hoping this doesn't happen to this forum.

[porscheuro]

ludicras what happened to freedom of speech? you are only speaking of experiences

[Brett928S2]

Hi

I think its because the "accountants" run things now, not the guys with spanners in their hands

Porsche does NOT like stuff, that recently appeared on the PCGB site , stuff like 997 engines blowing up and condemnation of OPC pricing...

I have hmm how shall I put this...."seen" the list of targets, and Pistonheads is on it

All the best Brett

[bcnrml]

If PH gets censored by Porsche, then;

1. Haymarket will be making a major mistake;

2. PH will never reach the subscriber levels that I've seen with one other forum where I post (it has over 250k members, and is still growing rapidly, having started out as a forum for geeks, mainly). The wealth of information and offers - and advertising - on that forum is impressive.

So here's hoping!

[vxman]

Its bad when a club & its menbers appears to be dictated to my a manufacturer

Who is next?

Edited by vxman on Saturday 3rd May 10:49

[9hellheaven]

Whats new here?.. This is about control..control of the masses. What do you think goverment do..and the Banks? They hold the upper hand in the knowledge that crapping on thousands as individuals is controlable. It tends to get more Interesting when they crap on people collectively, and then becomes really Interesting when those people collectively share the Information openly.
Admit that the 997 engine fails to an Individual..Naaah. Try to deny it to 50 people who have had it fail, and are in communication with each other..Tricky!
The only reason this or any other forum would pull the plug on a post is if a) any comments made in print may have legal consequences for the publisher (ie forum)this is unlikely if an Individual is making a precise and factual statement. b)The forum is pressured by the paymasters, be it a car manufacturing company or any other business. In all matters "Truth is an absolute defence" and thats it!
If you want to see what happens when so called higher powers crap on all but the gay Eskimos living in Wigan, watch what happens to the Labour party over the next 20 years!...

[fastfreddy]

Porsche like to throw their weight around. With the money they make it's difficult to stand up to them with their expensive lawyers and such, but stand up to them we must.

Free speech is not something we should give up without a fight.

[ARAF]

He who pays the piper, calls the tune. If Porsche are picking up the bills, then I'm sure that there's only so much open criticism that they can take. If I was paying a group £150k per year, then I'm sure I would expect a bit of gratitude, rather than a sgging off.
I am a member of forums, run by commercial enterprises, and as long as people know where they stand, there's no hassle. No such thing as a free lunch.

By the same token, if Porsche were not happy, then they should have just pulled the plug on the sponsorship. If nothing else, it would have shown more integrity on their part.

PCGB's loss, and TIPEC's gain, I suppose.

BTW,
The devil in me wants to know if it is legal, under EC regulation, for a company to put a heavy surcharge (say £200) to make an item (such as a 987/997 cruise control stalk) an exchange part, or is it price fixing?
Legally, I would like to add that I'm sure that there's obviously no connection between the fact that a Tequip cruise kit costs over £300 (and the factory option on a new car is a little less), yet you used to be able to buy all of the parts for under £100.

[dilbert]

S funny I was thinking just the other day that I might ditch the mag. It's all about those lousy watercooled things whose engines keep blowing up. It's a good job that most of the aircoolers need someone who's prepared to get their hands dirty really, otherwise I might have to ditch the car too.

Brett... Calm down and ditch the lol and nazi type stuff (and say something witty instead) before forwarding further. It makes you come across as a nutter (although I am prepared to accept what you say!)

Edited by dilbert on Saturday 3rd May 02:21

[anonymous-user]

If porsche are paying PCGB 150k a year it seems perfectly reasonable to me to censor their forum. Its short termist and its dumb but its reasonable. Obviously their interests would of course be far better served engaging with their customers in the forum and sorting their concerns. Why is business SO scared of the web? Porsche have a huge loyal following, why are they so backwards when it comes to nurturing that?

turning this into a freedom of speech thing is deranged.

Edited by fbrs on Saturday 3rd May 02:18

[dilbert]

fbrs said:

If porsche are paying PCGB 150k a year it seems perfectly reasonable to me to censor their forum. Its short termist and its dumb but its reasonable. Obviously their interests would of course be far better served engaging with their customers in the forum and sorting their concerns. Why is business SO scared of the web? Porsche have a huge loyal following, why are they so backwards when it comes to nurturing that?

turning this into a freedom of speech thing is deranged.

Edited by fbrs on Saturday 3rd May 02:18

Makes you wonder how big the problem is doesn't it?

[Guybrush]

I'm sure the club thought it was great to have the big P aligning with them and putting money in; I wonder did they not realise there'd be a price to pay?

[bluesatin]

Am I being stupid or would it not be easier for Porsche to fix the problems we all see with OPC service levels and their rejection of warranty claims (without an argument). Now off to check my rusty disks and wheel nuts!

[graeme36s]

Without Porsche having a finger in the pie the club would never have been allowed to have used the word "Porsche" in the first place. It was not that long ago (1998 I think) that any independant garage that used the word Porsche in anyway shape or form, in their name, advertising (promoting themselves as Porsche specialists etc.) received a solicitors letter promising legal action. Once they sorted that out (not many garages have the wedge to take on Porsche) they then sent a chap round to persuade you to buy genuine parts only and ask how Porsche GB could better serve you. He had no knowledge of the legal letters some months previous and was shocked when I showed him.
I can understand why PCGB has very little choice other than to sucumb to pressure from Porsche. I know first hand the pressure that Porsche put on the UK motorsport side let alone all the other aspects of the club.
I sincerely hope that no amount of pressure from Porsche will effect the way business is done on here or any of the other motoring forums.
Perhaps this will end up as the forum beinning with P ending in E with seven letters.
Thanks for sharing Brett and I can imagine how dissapointed you are. Been there, why I still own two Porsche's is beyond me sometimes.

[2something]

Good read Brett.

- I must admit I didn't realise there was a potential problem with the 997 engine, now I do.

- I can see Porsche's point of view, that they put up a lot of money so, they'd like some kind of control BUT they need to grow up. I see plenty of companies that host their own forums on their own website that have a LOT of criticism on them. Yes, they are paying for the hardware and the software and the support for people and letting them provide feedback eh I mean criticise.

- The tactics used to try and keep things quiet are old and well honed and nearly always a mistake. Trying to be underhand in anyway tends to upset people so much, that they make it their mission to spread the word.

[bcnrml]

fbrs said:

If porsche are paying PCGB 150k a year it seems perfectly reasonable to me to censor their forum. Its short termist and its dumb but its reasonable. Obviously their interests would of course be far better served engaging with their customers in the forum and sorting their concerns. [b] Why is business SO scared of the web? Porsche have a huge loyal following, why are they so backwards when it comes to nurturing that?

turning this into a freedom of speech thing is deranged.

Edited by fbrs on Saturday 3rd May 02:18

Re emboldened text: Because they don't understand it, were late to understand its power, are beginning to realise the word is out on the engine problems, and now that we've got a combination of events affecting them negatively (taxes, credit crunch, falling sales - see the data in the NY Times about six cylinder engines falling out of favour), they've chosen to flex their legal muscles.

Too late methinks - they are surrounded! I think Mercedes (in the UK anyway) got told of the fora by disgruntled customers and acted positively a few years ago - their techs visited said sites, learned from them, and started making changes. They even learned how to fix known problems (previously sorted on the Continent)! Porsche as a company has a lot to learn!

This would make an interesting business school case study. Wonder how it will end up?

Frankly, I doubt Porsche can so influence Haymarket that they censor PH any more than is the case. Pull all their advertising from Haymarket-owned rags? Yeah right! They need to do more advertising now, not less!

Most of all, they need to sort out those engines and give the UK a four year manufacturer's warranty, with after-sales service that is both worthy and value for money.

---

Edited to agree wholeheartedly with 2something's post.

Edited by bcnrml on Saturday 3rd May 08:26

[rubystone]

Guybrush said:

I'm sure the club thought it was great to have the big P aligning with them and putting money in; I wonder did they not realise there'd be a price to pay?

Nail on the head - the management came in for a lot of criticism for accepting Porsche's coin, but on the other hand I was not party to what not signing the contract was called, would mean. Porsche have pursued vigorously anyone using their trademarks and perhaps PCGB would have been constrained.

It's also telling how little grassroots support Peter Skelton appears to receive...or am I just imagining that?

[Chrispy Porker]

This sort of thing, and interminable arguing about internal politics, were two of the reasons I left PCGB.
Not to mantion a magazine which seemed to contain rather too many chaps in dinner jackets.