Form or function?
Discussion
A friend told me that parts exposed to road debris might last longer with nylon coating rather than powder coating.
If I were reconditioning a Cerb chassis (maybe one day) I would properly galvanise and probably nylon coat it... just to ensure I'd never need to do it again. Land Rover galv chassis put up with a lot of abuse and seem to last well without any recurrance of corrosion.
If I were reconditioning a Cerb chassis (maybe one day) I would properly galvanise and probably nylon coat it... just to ensure I'd never need to do it again. Land Rover galv chassis put up with a lot of abuse and seem to last well without any recurrance of corrosion.
It sounds like you are doing/want to do, exactly what i did with my chassis.
I Nitromors/wire brushed it back to bare metal, metal ready'd it, primed it, 3 times, and finished it with POR15 hard nose paint.
The powder coat is a smoother finish, but the chassis caot is tougher IMHO.
You can see the results here. Just follow the pics:
http://s205.photobucket.com/albums/bb202/cbra450/R...
I Nitromors/wire brushed it back to bare metal, metal ready'd it, primed it, 3 times, and finished it with POR15 hard nose paint.
The powder coat is a smoother finish, but the chassis caot is tougher IMHO.
You can see the results here. Just follow the pics:
http://s205.photobucket.com/albums/bb202/cbra450/R...
caduceus said:
It sounds like you are doing/want to do, exactly what i did with my chassis.
I Nitromors/wire brushed it back to bare metal, metal ready'd it, primed it, 3 times, and finished it with POR15 hard nose paint.
The powder coat is a smoother finish, but the chassis caot is tougher IMHO.
You can see the results here. Just follow the pics:
http://s205.photobucket.com/albums/bb202/cbra450/R...
Just looked at your pictures, looks like you have done a very good job! I like the polished alloy parts! I think I might go down the route of getting them anodized - not sure what colour though. I am only going to have time to do the wishbones, I will tackle the chassis next winter. I Nitromors/wire brushed it back to bare metal, metal ready'd it, primed it, 3 times, and finished it with POR15 hard nose paint.
The powder coat is a smoother finish, but the chassis caot is tougher IMHO.
You can see the results here. Just follow the pics:
http://s205.photobucket.com/albums/bb202/cbra450/R...
Did the people that powdercoated your wishbones press the bushes in? Putting the new bushes in is going to be the worst part of the job as I don't have a press.
markh1 said:
caduceus said:
It sounds like you are doing/want to do, exactly what i did with my chassis.
I Nitromors/wire brushed it back to bare metal, metal ready'd it, primed it, 3 times, and finished it with POR15 hard nose paint.
The powder coat is a smoother finish, but the chassis caot is tougher IMHO.
You can see the results here. Just follow the pics:
http://s205.photobucket.com/albums/bb202/cbra450/R...
Just looked at your pictures, looks like you have done a very good job! I like the polished alloy parts! I think I might go down the route of getting them anodized - not sure what colour though. I am only going to have time to do the wishbones, I will tackle the chassis next winter. I Nitromors/wire brushed it back to bare metal, metal ready'd it, primed it, 3 times, and finished it with POR15 hard nose paint.
The powder coat is a smoother finish, but the chassis caot is tougher IMHO.
You can see the results here. Just follow the pics:
http://s205.photobucket.com/albums/bb202/cbra450/R...
Did the people that powdercoated your wishbones press the bushes in? Putting the new bushes in is going to be the worst part of the job as I don't have a press.
The bushes were pressed in by a combination of my uncle (who has a press), me at a friends garage, and a TVR mechanic. Its worth just giving the lot to a TVR garage you trust to put them in, and give them a drink. Saves alot of messing around.
Sorry for the thread hijack Nefarious, but as there seem to be some interest I though I’d share some of my findings. I haven’t actually done the Cerb properly yet, just keep cleaning it up & re-applying the old waxoly every year. I am going to do it but don’t see the point trying too hard till I can do it properly with the body off.
Although I haven’t done the Cerb yet I have been removing rust from old cars for 20 years (& I’m only 33) so I have tried out a few different things along the way. As I said there isn’t a rust converter / neutraliser / paint over solution that actually works, but it doesn’t stop me trying them I’m currently testing this on the 200sx http://www.rust.co.uk/epoxy-mastic.cfm seems good but only time will tell.
When I get the body off the Cerb I was thinking of using this firm http://www.surfaceprocessing.co.uk/ to dip the whole chassis as the inside will get treated as well (although it could be a bit cost prohibitive) I in the meantime have waxolyed inside the main chassis centre rails as I have been treated to a shower, more than once, by water pouring out of the bolt holes after taking bracing plate thingy off.
As for other paint on products, four years ago I thought I’d test a few of the leading ones out on my beetle before going any were near the Cerb with them. As it turns out it’s still not on the road yet, but I got some surprising results from it just being in a slightly damp garage. There were a couple of rust converters, the names I forget, but were predictably rubbish.
Good old Hammerite smooth on it’s own even over some light rust has lasted fine, although this will not stand up to stone chips I have previously found.
Original waxoly used as intended inside the cavity of a rusty door 18 years ago has only just started to rust though now, so it’s not half bad, but used on the exposed parts of the chassis it soon washes off, but is very easy to re-apply.
POR15 applied as directed wasn’t anything like as good as you might expect. Were it was over rust, the rust has just bubbled back up through, not too surprising. But when I dropped a 10mm spanner from only 30cm & it took a huge chunk out, the rest just pealed off like latex. This was over nice clean steel prepared with all their products, (marine wash & metal ready off the top of my head). If the surface has been blasted it may stick better, but personally I’m going to keep clear of all POR15 products.
The only other bits that have lasted very well are the parts I totally removed the rust from using the different dips & gels I mentioned then acid etched primed. I haven’t over coated them with anything yet & it’s taken quite a few knocks from being moved round but still no sign of new rust or the paint moving at all. This stuff it so thin you can see though it, but it’s bond is very very strong, obviously you wouldn’t leave it like that, but as I said some good rubberised stone chip over the top & it will last for a very long time.
A mate has an Elise which is about 8 years old now & the powder coating on what there is of his chassis is still in very good condition, it sees similar use to the average Cerb so powder coating must be quite good.
I rebuilt a 2CV for a mate 15 years ago, that got a new galvanised chassis which I left as was, no over coating & it’s still looking good today I’m told, so it’s a good option. But I’ve heard people on here a few years back voicing concerns about possible distortion that could be caused by the heat involved. My friend’s dad was a metallurgist for Cosworth among others I’ll get him to ask his dads take on that if anyone interested.
Although I haven’t done the Cerb yet I have been removing rust from old cars for 20 years (& I’m only 33) so I have tried out a few different things along the way. As I said there isn’t a rust converter / neutraliser / paint over solution that actually works, but it doesn’t stop me trying them I’m currently testing this on the 200sx http://www.rust.co.uk/epoxy-mastic.cfm seems good but only time will tell.
When I get the body off the Cerb I was thinking of using this firm http://www.surfaceprocessing.co.uk/ to dip the whole chassis as the inside will get treated as well (although it could be a bit cost prohibitive) I in the meantime have waxolyed inside the main chassis centre rails as I have been treated to a shower, more than once, by water pouring out of the bolt holes after taking bracing plate thingy off.
As for other paint on products, four years ago I thought I’d test a few of the leading ones out on my beetle before going any were near the Cerb with them. As it turns out it’s still not on the road yet, but I got some surprising results from it just being in a slightly damp garage. There were a couple of rust converters, the names I forget, but were predictably rubbish.
Good old Hammerite smooth on it’s own even over some light rust has lasted fine, although this will not stand up to stone chips I have previously found.
Original waxoly used as intended inside the cavity of a rusty door 18 years ago has only just started to rust though now, so it’s not half bad, but used on the exposed parts of the chassis it soon washes off, but is very easy to re-apply.
POR15 applied as directed wasn’t anything like as good as you might expect. Were it was over rust, the rust has just bubbled back up through, not too surprising. But when I dropped a 10mm spanner from only 30cm & it took a huge chunk out, the rest just pealed off like latex. This was over nice clean steel prepared with all their products, (marine wash & metal ready off the top of my head). If the surface has been blasted it may stick better, but personally I’m going to keep clear of all POR15 products.
The only other bits that have lasted very well are the parts I totally removed the rust from using the different dips & gels I mentioned then acid etched primed. I haven’t over coated them with anything yet & it’s taken quite a few knocks from being moved round but still no sign of new rust or the paint moving at all. This stuff it so thin you can see though it, but it’s bond is very very strong, obviously you wouldn’t leave it like that, but as I said some good rubberised stone chip over the top & it will last for a very long time.
A mate has an Elise which is about 8 years old now & the powder coating on what there is of his chassis is still in very good condition, it sees similar use to the average Cerb so powder coating must be quite good.
I rebuilt a 2CV for a mate 15 years ago, that got a new galvanised chassis which I left as was, no over coating & it’s still looking good today I’m told, so it’s a good option. But I’ve heard people on here a few years back voicing concerns about possible distortion that could be caused by the heat involved. My friend’s dad was a metallurgist for Cosworth among others I’ll get him to ask his dads take on that if anyone interested.
Luckyone said:
POR15 applied as directed wasn’t anything like as good as you might expect. Were it was over rust, the rust has just bubbled back up through, not too surprising. But when I dropped a 10mm spanner from only 30cm & it took a huge chunk out, the rest just pealed off like latex. This was over nice clean steel prepared with all their products, (marine wash & metal ready off the top of my head). If the surface has been blasted it may stick better, but personally I’m going to keep clear of all POR15 products.
POR = Paint On Rust. It doesn't stick to well-prepared steel and if you painted over rust that had little steel behind it, then it didn't really have a chance.Where I've used it, over surface rust on a Se7en, it stuck well and offered very genuinely-useful chip resistance. To my mind it is everything we all used to believe Hammerite was, but isn't.
Not as good as a proper clean and powdercoat, but better than Waxoyl on a chassis.
Mars said:
Luckyone said:
POR15 applied as directed wasn’t anything like as good as you might expect. Were it was over rust, the rust has just bubbled back up through, not too surprising. But when I dropped a 10mm spanner from only 30cm & it took a huge chunk out, the rest just pealed off like latex. This was over nice clean steel prepared with all their products, (marine wash & metal ready off the top of my head). If the surface has been blasted it may stick better, but personally I’m going to keep clear of all POR15 products.
POR = Paint On Rust. It doesn't stick to well-prepared steel and if you painted over rust that had little steel behind it, then it didn't really have a chance.Where I've used it, over surface rust on a Se7en, it stuck well and offered very genuinely-useful chip resistance. To my mind it is everything we all used to believe Hammerite was, but isn't.
Not as good as a proper clean and powdercoat, but better than Waxoyl on a chassis.
There seem to be two camps of people on POR15 some love it, some don’t…
If it stays stuck on it will obviously be better than waxoly. But to do it properly all the all the original powder coat needs removing, it’s not possible to remove it all with out removing the body (never mind access / cleaning issues) So I’m just keeping on top of the rust with waxoly till I have the space / time to do it properly.
Practical Classics group test: http://www.bilthamber.com/electrox-125-primers-tes...
Largely agrees with you (and pretty much everyone else I've spoken to with first hand experience) about POR15.
High solids content primer FTW.
Largely agrees with you (and pretty much everyone else I've spoken to with first hand experience) about POR15.
High solids content primer FTW.
Nefarious said:
Practical Classics group test: http://www.bilthamber.com/electrox-125-primers-tes...
Largely agrees with you (and pretty much everyone else I've spoken to with first hand experience) about POR15.
High solids content primer FTW.
That's interesting, the epoxy they tested is the one I'm testing as a stand alone product on my 200sx right now, I must have a look under it again to see how it's getting on, it was nice stuff to put on. I'm a certified fan of the Bilt Hamber products.Largely agrees with you (and pretty much everyone else I've spoken to with first hand experience) about POR15.
High solids content primer FTW.
Note to self - must get out more...
I used a product called Vactan that I found on ebay recently, did a bit of googling before buying and it seemed to be getting a number of recommendations in the boat world, the ebay seller claims it is in use by the US Navy no less. Appears to have done a good job on a couple of small patches where the powder coat had come away (powder coat was pretty new but I grounded out quite badly cresting a ramp in a multi storey and took some off) - after application waited for it to go off to it's tough looking black finish then treated with decent layer of waxoil for good measure - good price too, I got 1 litre of the stuff for about a tenner and have not used very much at all so far.
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