"The Upgrade" has started

[Biggriff]

Here's my Xmas present to myself.

The car is in bits (again)and here is the spec of my upgrade:

Forged rods
Forged pistons
ARP head bolts
ARP mains and big/small end bolts
Ferrara titanium valve drivetrain
Custom head gaskets
Custom 246 cams from Race Precision
T28 Disco Potato Turbos ( still not 100% on these)
Stand alone ECU (probably Emerald K3A)
Gearbox by the Gearbox man (with external cooler)
Race Precision - Oil/Water Oil cooler kit
Sard fuel pressure regulator
Racelogic adjustable traction control, with full throttle shift and launch control

We have already done a fair bit like pro-Alloy intercooler, pipework, breathers, catch tanks, BOV, silicone pipework, etc etc and fitted Mooohasive Toyo R888 tyres all round and upgraded the brakes.

Sorted the standard wheels (which are just being refurbed at the moment pending funds for the Dymag Carbon wheels becoming available) and just finished a complete Paintshield protection kit (which with immaculate paintwork looks fantastic).

Not sure on horsepower but it will be an awful lot, hence the T/C kit (which worked very well on the TVR Griffith when that was upgraded)

Will keep you guys posted on progress.

Have to do all this in stages as the funds allow and my wife has asked me if the garage get joint custody if we divorce...........

Richard

[Adrian W]

Stand alone ECU (probably Emerald K3A)


Sgould really be an Omex710

[Biggriff]

Thanks Adrian

The Emerald has one big advantage, Dave Walker is down the road so set up is a P.O.P.

Omex is on the list and not there yet with ECU sign off so still looking. Will be talking to the companies at Autosport before I make my mind up.

[art411y]

great stuff .wish i could afford to do this to mine

[F.C.]

Biggriff said:

Here's my Xmas present to myself.

The car is in bits (again)and here is the spec of my upgrade:

Forged rods
Forged pistons
ARP head bolts
ARP mains and big/small end bolts
Ferrara titanium valve drivetrain
Custom head gaskets
Custom 246 cams from Race Precision
T28 Disco Potato Turbos ( still not 100% on these)
Stand alone ECU (probably Emerald K3A)
Gearbox by the Gearbox man (with external cooler)
Race Precision - Oil/Water Oil cooler kit
Sard fuel pressure regulator
Racelogic adjustable traction control, with full throttle shift and launch control

We have already done a fair bit like pro-Alloy intercooler, pipework, breathers, catch tanks, BOV, silicone pipework, etc etc and fitted Mooohasive Toyo R888 tyres all round and upgraded the brakes.

Sorted the standard wheels (which are just being refurbed at the moment pending funds for the Dymag Carbon wheels becoming available) and just finished a complete Paintshield protection kit (which with immaculate paintwork looks fantastic).

Not sure on horsepower but it will be an awful lot, hence the T/C kit (which worked very well on the TVR Griffith when that was upgraded)

Will keep you guys posted on progress.

Have to do all this in stages as the funds allow and my wife has asked me if the garage get joint custody if we divorce...........

Richard

Hi,
Have you got any details on duration/lift on the cams?
What are you doing to the gearbox? Shotpeen + bearings or more?
Really interested what torque figure your gearbox man will "guaratee" the box to.
F.C.

[Mike Tuckwood]

Nice looking project, exactly the kind of thing I will be doing as soon as I can find a suitable mule car for us.

Think carefully about the Ti valves choice though, they are good in high revving engines, but also have a more limited lifespan before requiring subsequent hours run type replacement.
What C/R are you looking at for the engine spec?
You really need to define at the planning stage how you want the car to drive on the road and what your target HP is. These factors will pretty much dictate which Turbochargers to use?


As for ECU choices, I'd got GEMS down as a possibility for mine, (though there are others) don't allow geography to dictate who should map/set up your car?


Mike.

[mgbond]

Mike Tuckwood said:

Nice looking project, exactly the kind of thing I will be doing as soon as I can find a suitable mule car for us.

Think carefully about the Ti valves choice though, they are good in high revving engines, but also have a more limited lifespan before requiring subsequent hours run type replacement.
What C/R are you looking at for the engine spec?
You really need to define at the planning stage how you want the car to drive on the road and what your target HP is. These factors will pretty much dictate which Turbochargers to use?


As for ECU choices, I'd got GEMS down as a possibility for mine, (though there are others) don't allow geography to dictate who should map/set up your car?


Mike.

Did you speak to Gadge regarding the Haltech ECU?

Bondy

[F.C.]

last engine I built had a Motec unit driving eight injectors via four jenvy throttle bodies.
It never missed a beat although a bit expensive I'd use Motec again.
F.C.

[Biggriff]

The engine spec is being sorted by the race engineers I use and Race Precision in the States who have a lot of experience in these things.

The cams are these:

http://www.nobleforums.com/showthread.php?t=1045

Gearbox upgrade spec is this:

The price for a new Noble six speed gearbox rebuilt (and shimmed
correctly) with the shot peen and super finished gears, a new Quaife
ATB
differential, the plastic caged bearings replaced with steel caged and
fitted with oil cooler unions (we strongly recommend cooling these
gearboxes) is £2950.00+VAT.
For big power cars we tend to prefer to use the shot peen and super
finish process on a new gear set, rather than reworking an old one,
this
is due to duty cycles already run effecting the overall life of the
rebuilt gearbox.

Have reliably been told T25 are good for 500bhp+ so turbos are still in the mix as some hybrid T25's would be fine as I am only looking for 550bhp (to start with).

Richard

Edited by Biggriff on Tuesday 25th December 10:23

[cossiemetro]

i'm going for an EMERALD on my 2.5 turbo project very good kit imho
i know loads of cars running it its very user friendly i've got a brand new WEBER ALPHA ECU brilliant kit but nobody can map it DOH!!!! hence jnking it for an emerald

[Adrian W]

Why go to the states for cams when the locally sourced ones are good enough.

I thought they put Emerald ecu's in Elises and Cossies because they dont know better and they're cheap.

[peterguk]

Biggriff said:

The engine spec is being sorted by the race engineers I use and Race Precision in the States who have a lot of experience in these things.

The cams are these:

http://www.nobleforums.com/showthread.php?t=1045

Quote from referred thread above: "The engine is being assembled and we will be able to test the cams vs the stock ones on the dyno."

Did they test them? Not seen any dyno results.

[F.C.]

[quote=Biggriff]The engine spec is being sorted by the race engineers I use and Race Precision in the States who have a lot of experience in these things.

The cams are these:

http://www.nobleforums.com/showthread.php?t=1045

Are they indexable? nobody on this side of the Atlantic has been able to give me a supplier for indexable cams.
F.C.

[alex s]

Adrian W said:

Why go to the states for cams when the locally sourced ones are good enough.

I thought they put Emerald ecu's in Elises and Cossies because they dont know better and they're cheap.

Adrian, will roush sell them though, guessing they won't? Also at a reasonable price?

[Biggriff]

Roush are very expensive and at £80 an hour labour when my guys are half price its a no brainer.

Emerald ECU's are very flexible and I know a number of big engined, big horsepower projects that Dave has made work when others couldn' or wouldn't.

The cams were prototyped some time ago as I understand it. The link was the only reference I could find with piccies. The reason for going with the US cams are that they come as part of the overall kit from the same supplier and have I can get support if I need it. If I buy from all over the place no one wants to know when something isn't working and they all end up blaming each other. Plus look at the US prices..........50% of UK.

I will speak to Gadge about Haltech, but remain to be convinced as customer support was pretty poor up until recently.

Be back soon as popping across to Interlaken now.

Richard

Edited by Biggriff on Wednesday 26th December 10:06

[Adrian W]

alex s said:

Adrian W said:

Why go to the states for cams when the locally sourced ones are good enough.

I thought they put Emerald ecu's in Elises and Cossies because they dont know better and they're cheap.

Adrian, will roush sell them though, guessing they won't? Also at a reasonable price?

I don't know, I think Mountune sell part's so someone would have to ask them.

[gadgeroonie]

a pair of gt28RS60 turbo's (disco potato) are a little bit big for a 3.0

you will need to use the .64 ex housing which is the smallest they do and its still a bit big

720 theorectical bhp is possible

a friend of mine did one in the usa and it did a 10 sec qtr on its first day out !

i strongly recommend you use an ecu that has traction control / mappable boost against selected gear and road speed

[Mike Tuckwood]

gadgeroonie said:

a pair of gt28RS60 turbo's (disco potato) are a little bit big for a 3.0

you will need to use the .64 ex housing which is the smallest they do and its still a bit big

720 theorectical bhp is possible

a friend of mine did one in the usa and it did a 10 sec qtr on its first day out !

i strongly recommend you use an ecu that has traction control / mappable boost against selected gear and road speed

I'd agree with that to be honest, they are on the large side for the horsepower target suggested.
You're gonna have a lot of changes in one go there, I'll be honest, I think you'll be surprised at just how much you can get out of the GT25 standard Turbo's (does anyone know the exact Garret model/part number used as OEM)?

There may not be any need to move up to a GT28 of any sort at all either? The largest of the available GT25 series are capable (as a pair) of seeing circa 650BHP. Like I said earlier though, it's not just about peak capability, which Turbo you choose will dictate how the car makes its power as well.

The standard Turbo's should see you around your target HP I'd wager? Are you sure about the 246 cam profile, that's a rather mild profile? I know FC asked earlier, but do you have the factory cam profile info available? Lift, (point of lift measurement) duration?

So, stick with factory Turbo's at this point I'd suggest, and see what you end up with after all the other work has been done. It will be easier to make a change based on what it's running like after all the other mod's are done.

Mike

[V6GTO]

Mike Tuckwood said:

[So, stick with factory Turbo's at this point I'd suggest, and see what you end up with after all the other work has been done. It will be easier to make a change based on what it's running like after all the other mod's are done.

Good call.

[Hooverc]

At 1.1 bar, every gt28rs we've dyno'd spooled slower and made less torque (100-110ft.lbs. vs. 200ft.lbs @ 3000rpm)than the gt28 and gt25 from 2500rpm to 4000rpm.
With more boost (approximately .5bar+)you can compensate for it.

At 1.2 bar with the gt25 and proper supporting components, 495bhp is obtainable. The gt28 will put you over the 500bhp at 1.2bar, spool difference is barely noticeable.