did you find your 911 easy to drive at first?
Discussion
yes i know that the challenge is supposed to be part of the appeal.
yes i know i've had one before!
yes i know driver training is a good investment (recommendations welcome!)
yes i know i keep posting about how much i love 968CS's!
but bloomin'eck, it's a struggle. i think it's the lack of power steering that throws me, i don't mind admitting that it's not the done thing to rely on it but it's funny that the only other car i didn't get on with dynamicly didn't have it.
set up is all a-ok according to my specialist, all suspension parts were renewed in the restoration, so it looks like it's just me
i'm just wondering if anyone else found it this hard, i've had plenty of cars (i change quite often) but i've never been puzzled by a cars handling as much as this. i know the score, slow in, fast out, steady throttle, weight transfer etc etc but if i drive it like that i'm just bloody s-l-o-w!
answers on a postcard....
yes i know i've had one before!
yes i know driver training is a good investment (recommendations welcome!)
yes i know i keep posting about how much i love 968CS's!
but bloomin'eck, it's a struggle. i think it's the lack of power steering that throws me, i don't mind admitting that it's not the done thing to rely on it but it's funny that the only other car i didn't get on with dynamicly didn't have it.
set up is all a-ok according to my specialist, all suspension parts were renewed in the restoration, so it looks like it's just me
i'm just wondering if anyone else found it this hard, i've had plenty of cars (i change quite often) but i've never been puzzled by a cars handling as much as this. i know the score, slow in, fast out, steady throttle, weight transfer etc etc but if i drive it like that i'm just bloody s-l-o-w!
answers on a postcard....
I don't think it's your ability - it sounds like your car's a cut n shut ringer of some kind and clearly slightly twisted somewhere. You'll never find a solution - my advice would be to get rid of it ASAP before anyone hears about it (you know, like if someone started a rumour on the internet or something 
) otherwise you'd have to make a distress sale and it'd be virtually worthless then.
You've got my number haven't you
) otherwise you'd have to make a distress sale and it'd be virtually worthless then.You've got my number haven't you
I guess what's throwing you is the non assisted steering loading up. As you enter the corner quickly the steering wheel weight gets heavier as you try to turn in. You need to do a track day to dial yourself in. You will then see the light. As an example I could lap Castle Combe a second quicker in my old 3.2 SSE than my 964 Carrera 2 race car. Both built to PCGB MSD regs and running Pirelli P Zero C's. Why because Combe is very bumpy and would trip the abs on the C2 which of course the 3.2 does not have. So what I am trying to say is your car is more than capable. You just need to get to understand it.
Evening Craig!
My short answer is nope! And I didn't stick around to find out. Well actually, I owned it for 2 years but that was simply due to it being in for repair for so long!
I had a mid 70's car. A bitsa to be fair but it had had a fortune thrown at it. It came to me with a 2.7 motor which broke. I had it rebuilt. It broke again. I put a 3.2 Carrera motor in it but still hated it!
I hated the brakes which had no feel and then when you pushed hard enough for them to work, one side would lock up!
I hated the steering which just felt "not nice". Can't put my finger on it. No play or anything just not good, for me.
I just didn't get along with it.
I've said it before but, I had an E36 M3 as a daily driver at the time and it just made that 911 pointless as a weekend fun-car.
The Porsche done nothing better. So I got rid and bought my 964 C2 which I adored so bought the Turbo after a year.
I think there's a fine balance between old but liveable with and too old to live with. Different people find their niche at different points.
I'm a 964 or later type of driver but, I still love looking at the old stuff.
Good luck getting to the bottom of it.
My short answer is nope! And I didn't stick around to find out. Well actually, I owned it for 2 years but that was simply due to it being in for repair for so long!
I had a mid 70's car. A bitsa to be fair but it had had a fortune thrown at it. It came to me with a 2.7 motor which broke. I had it rebuilt. It broke again. I put a 3.2 Carrera motor in it but still hated it!
I hated the brakes which had no feel and then when you pushed hard enough for them to work, one side would lock up!
I hated the steering which just felt "not nice". Can't put my finger on it. No play or anything just not good, for me.
I just didn't get along with it.
I've said it before but, I had an E36 M3 as a daily driver at the time and it just made that 911 pointless as a weekend fun-car.
The Porsche done nothing better. So I got rid and bought my 964 C2 which I adored so bought the Turbo after a year.
I think there's a fine balance between old but liveable with and too old to live with. Different people find their niche at different points.
I'm a 964 or later type of driver but, I still love looking at the old stuff.
Good luck getting to the bottom of it.
I think that H&T on an air cooled is absolutely essential as it makes sure that you balance the car correctly on entry and smooth out that weight transfer.
I had some trail braking instruction at Silverstone which was a bit of a shock at first as it went against all of my previous experience and instincts.
But then I realised that I had been trailing slightly anyway in my efforts to reign in that natural understeer.
Thats the great thing about the 911, you never stop learning!
MTR
I had some trail braking instruction at Silverstone which was a bit of a shock at first as it went against all of my previous experience and instincts.
But then I realised that I had been trailing slightly anyway in my efforts to reign in that natural understeer.
Thats the great thing about the 911, you never stop learning!
MTR
thegoose said:
I don't think it's your ability - it sounds like your car's a cut n shut ringer of some kind and clearly slightly twisted somewhere. You'll never find a solution - my advice would be to get rid of it ASAP before anyone hears about it (you know, like if someone started a rumour on the internet or something ) otherwise you'd have to make a distress sale and it'd be virtually worthless then.
You've got my number haven't you
marcus your sympathy knows no bounds, come back to me when you've got the worlds best 968CS to part exchange ) otherwise you'd have to make a distress sale and it'd be virtually worthless then.You've got my number haven't you
graemel said:
I guess what's throwing you is the non assisted steering loading up. As you enter the corner quickly the steering wheel weight gets heavier as you try to turn in. You need to do a track day to dial yourself in.
this makes sense, & kind of what i feel is happening. without wanting to sound like a wimp it just feels like it's going to take too much effort to turn in, & god forbid it needed some opposite lock i'm not sure i'd keep up with what's needed?the car is sound as i've said, the brakes are superb, the engine's strong & even the 915 box is sweet. it's the steering i'm struggling with
mollytherocker said:
Thats the great thing about the 911, you never stop learning!
my problem is it's making me feel like i've only just started!heel & toe is something i do in day to day driving, & feels as good in this car as anything else (pedal box refurb) & dare i say it is probably key to making a 915 box feel great anyway. i get all that weight transfer stuff, i understand it completely but in order to balance the weight & turn in with a steering effort i find comfortable i need to be going so much slower than what i normally would!
it can be done, i found a nice well known to me 3rd gear corner & chucked the car in, it stuck, it didn't feel out of control but i felt like it was too much effort-does that make sense? driving that corner fast required the same physical effort that driving right on the limit of a front engined car would need.
like i said it's just bloomin hard work!
I know you may have written up how it's set up previously but if it's not been done already I know a common upgrade is turbo track control arms (or similar) for a sharper steering feel and then a fast road or track-focused geometry set up should help make it more eager to turn in.
The guys at Unit 11 have done this to many similar cars (they prepare several successful SC rally cars), and looked after my SC race car, and I never experienced what you've described.
Oh, and it might sound daft, but make sure you're sat close enough to the wheel - when sat back in your seat with your arm outstretched the bottom of your wrist should rest on the top of the wheel rim. Any further away and you're making it harder for yourself than it should be.
The guys at Unit 11 have done this to many similar cars (they prepare several successful SC rally cars), and looked after my SC race car, and I never experienced what you've described.
Oh, and it might sound daft, but make sure you're sat close enough to the wheel - when sat back in your seat with your arm outstretched the bottom of your wrist should rest on the top of the wheel rim. Any further away and you're making it harder for yourself than it should be.
cragswinter said:
my problem is it's making me feel like i've only just started!
heel & toe is something i do in day to day driving, & feels as good in this car as anything else (pedal box refurb) & dare i say it is probably key to making a 915 box feel great anyway. i get all that weight transfer stuff, i understand it completely but in order to balance the weight & turn in with a steering effort i find comfortable i need to be going so much slower than what i normally would!
it can be done, i found a nice well known to me 3rd gear corner & chucked the car in, it stuck, it didn't feel out of control but i felt like it was too much effort-does that make sense? driving that corner fast required the same physical effort that driving right on the limit of a front engined car would need.
like i said it's just bloomin hard work!
Try a LHD 964 RS and you'll feel exactly the same thing. The unassisted steeeing and castor all feel like they're acting against you. As you'll be aware, it's not about "chucking them in", it's about slow in fast out. You're right, they can feel slow (almost pedestrian compared with something like a CSL that carries far more entry and mid corner speed) but once you've got the front turned, you have the benefit of the massive traction afforded by the rear engine layout.heel & toe is something i do in day to day driving, & feels as good in this car as anything else (pedal box refurb) & dare i say it is probably key to making a 915 box feel great anyway. i get all that weight transfer stuff, i understand it completely but in order to balance the weight & turn in with a steering effort i find comfortable i need to be going so much slower than what i normally would!
it can be done, i found a nice well known to me 3rd gear corner & chucked the car in, it stuck, it didn't feel out of control but i felt like it was too much effort-does that make sense? driving that corner fast required the same physical effort that driving right on the limit of a front engined car would need.
like i said it's just bloomin hard work!
I'd suggest you have a good look at your geo set up and ride heights and wheel offsets. A bad combination here , ie ride heights too low, too much castor and negative camber in addition to big wheel offsets will make the steering reallyloAD up.
Slippydiff said:
Try a LHD 964 RS and you'll feel exactly the same thing. The unassisted steeeing and castor all feel like they're acting against you.
Aye this sums it up about best.I may be asking for the impossible, but my perfect set up would be a nice light sharp turn in with a faithful back end, I'm worried that if we alter the geo to get the turn in quicker & "more pointy" it will automatically make the rear more playful-something I'm not comfortable with in a 911!
cragswinter said:
Aye this sums it up about best.
I may be asking for the impossible, but my perfect set up would be a nice light sharp turn in with a faithful back end, I'm worried that if we alter the geo to get the turn in quicker & "more pointy" it will automatically make the rear more playful-something I'm not comfortable with in a 911!
Check your ride heights, castor and camber, don't forget that as you raise the front of the car you'll lose some of the negative camber (and both it and the toe will need adjusting as a result)I may be asking for the impossible, but my perfect set up would be a nice light sharp turn in with a faithful back end, I'm worried that if we alter the geo to get the turn in quicker & "more pointy" it will automatically make the rear more playful-something I'm not comfortable with in a 911!
I'm not sure you'll ever get the really light, sharp turn in you desire, but it sounds as if what you've currently got is excessively heavy.
I've commented on here previously that I find the LHD 964 RS "physical" to drive, not in a bad way, but you do have to make the cars weight distribution work for you. Get it wrong and if feels wrong, get it right and the car dances.
Is you driving position making things worse ?
My 3.2 Carrera took some time, guaging when to change up down through corners with a 915 box is an art in itself.
The 993 was okay once I got the geo sorted, the G50 50 box makes it so much smoother.
The 3.2 is far more lively, and has much more feel, it took about six months before I got to grips with it. You sort of reach out and grab it by the scruff of the neck.
The 993 was okay once I got the geo sorted, the G50 50 box makes it so much smoother.
The 3.2 is far more lively, and has much more feel, it took about six months before I got to grips with it. You sort of reach out and grab it by the scruff of the neck.
....it took me a couple of months to get used to my 993 especialy the long throw on the gear shift and six gears....well.....I think it's a long throw and until I had Bilstein HDs put on and a geo down it was pretty tramliney and didn't inspire confidence on overtaking on fast twisty B roads.
Now it is well sorted and I feel confident when driving in any conditions. I have recently had a shorter shift kit put on which makes gear changing more precise and got to say with the new HID kit I have recently had put on dipped beam even night driving is no longer a bind.
Now it is well sorted and I feel confident when driving in any conditions. I have recently had a shorter shift kit put on which makes gear changing more precise and got to say with the new HID kit I have recently had put on dipped beam even night driving is no longer a bind.
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