Car Swap – £12k cultural exchange
Discussion
Normally I drive an S1 Elise Sport 160, and it's awesome. It suits my car needs perfectly.
However, I didn't ask the internet what car I should buy before I got it, so maybe I got it wrong. Maybe I could have bought something else. Luckily my best mate just bought something that seems pretty close. Same power to weight [1], same age [2], same 0-60 [3] and very importantly it costs the same. So being a nice chap he offered to swap cars for the weekend. So I spent last weekend in a 996 Carrera 2 [4]. You should all rush out and make a friend like this, immediately.
First impressions. The 911 is just like a car. You get in, sit on a seat, start the engine and drive off. Seems nice. Slightly claustrophobic somehow even after the Elise (with it's hard top on) but still pretty much like a car. Trundling round to let it warm up for a few miles and it still seems just like a car. Where are the compromises? The windscreen has demisted, I've adjusted the mirrors using electricity instead of winding the passenger window down by hand trying to pull an old Metro mirror into position, and the engine doesn't seem to mind sitting in traffic. It's not dull, but there is no drama. On the other hand, there is no drama, I'm not sure trundling in traffic ought to be dramatic.
With the engine warmed up I start giving it some throttle – makes a nice noise, like a Subaru, but without the shame. Feels maybe a bit slower than the 160, but then it would, because it doesn't sound like being in a tumble drier being dragged over gravel. I'm impressed, it does a very good job of combining lots of feel with lots of comfort, the steering is excellent, the gear change feels nicely positive and heel-and-toe just seems to work – it's something that I'm good at or rubbish at depending on the car, so it's nice when it works.
So, over the next two days I use the Porsche as a car, and it does a very good job of everything. I try my tedious morning commute (5 miles of winding B road and no traffic – hence the Elise as a daily drive). I take Mrs Muppet to a 90th birthday party and people are either impressed by the car or don't notice it – the same family have been very “forgiving” of some of the flash and/or dreadful cars I've turned up in before, and this seems to be a hit. I ponce around to my brother's house and spend a happy hour trying to work out whether we should buy a 944 together, and who has to find a parking space for it. A nice lady spends five minutes in it and tells me that she'd like a Porsche, but not one like this, she wants a “Carrera”. Seems like Porsche marketing isn't faultless. A four year old boy spends a reasonably comfortable minute in the front boot (he wanted to know what was in the front after working out where he engine was).
All the time I'm driving it on wet nasty winter roads, and it just works. Like a normal car, unless you want to do something special, in which case it's exactly like I imagined a Porsche should be. Solidly fun. If you had to have one car to do everything this would do nicely.
I experienced none of the consequences of the engine being in the wrong end, despite decades of mocking silly rear engined cars. On my single “dab of oppo” moment (whilst being followed by the Porsche's owner) it moved out slowly, with loads of time to correct it, until the traction control spoiled the fun, and I'm not driving god [5]. Nice and friendly. I'd need a track or lots of stupidity to crash one of these.
It's not all good, obviously. The speedo calibration is insane. 0, 25, 50, 75. Thanks Porsche, really useful. There is a digital speedo, but why fit a useless analogue gauge too? Also why fit the rear wiper button on the passenger side of the car? It forces you to feel across the hard plastic dash to try to find it. I'm not a dashboard fetishist, and I find the S1 Elise dash unobjectionable, but some of the 996 dash feels like the sort of thing people who touch dashboards all the time would hate (though I normally view any criticism of dashboard plastics as proof there is nothing seriously wrong with a car). If the rear wipers were on one of the four steering wheel stalks I'd never have noticed.
Also, can we all just agree that car heater controls should be three dial controls, and that lighting all the buttons up with identical single points of light isn't helpful. Trying to get warmer/colder/demisted means staring at the dash display while driving. I'd rather have the Elise's feeble demisting capability than have to park to adjust temperature.
So, downsides: none really, not real ones. Finding the money to buy and run one seems to be the only problem.
I can see how these things have become the default choice for fixing a mid-life crisis. Fast enough, fun when you want it to be, blessed with the worlds best door armrests (seriously – why aren't all armrests also a glovebox?) and yet no compromises at all. I didn't even get any jealousy fueled hate. I'll stick with the Elise though. I've got the only S1 that doesn't leak and I can get in and out of it just fine.
Would you like it? Go test drive one, I loved 968s until I drove one, and hated 996s until I drove this one. It turns out the internet and magazines are rubbish for deciding this sort of thing. I've written this because it was a genuinely amazing weekend, I had a great time and found out that some of my long standing opinions were rubbish, which is always fun. Plus it really did make an excellent noise. So go swap cars with someone [6].
And the Porsche's owner - what did he think of the Elise? He did 4 miles in it.
It's nice that we both bought the right car.
[1] Pretty much, ignoring the huge damage that stuffing my fat arse in an Elise does to the power to weight, and ignoring Porsche publishing the weight for the car without the optional windscreen and seats.
[2] The Elise is a few months older, but 30,000 miles younger.
[3] With me driving, it'd be close enough, plus it's not something I'd ever try anyway.
[4] Yes, he is really nice. Also he genuinely is a powerfully built company director, who likes MX5s but is too manly to own one. Amazing he isn't on PH.
[5] I was 12th best in class at the final round of the 2009 British Drift Championship. Yes, I'm showing off, but that's the main point of drifting. That and fun.
[6] Enjoyment not guarenteed, your experience may differ, especially if some git slides your new Porsche up a slip road
However, I didn't ask the internet what car I should buy before I got it, so maybe I got it wrong. Maybe I could have bought something else. Luckily my best mate just bought something that seems pretty close. Same power to weight [1], same age [2], same 0-60 [3] and very importantly it costs the same. So being a nice chap he offered to swap cars for the weekend. So I spent last weekend in a 996 Carrera 2 [4]. You should all rush out and make a friend like this, immediately.
First impressions. The 911 is just like a car. You get in, sit on a seat, start the engine and drive off. Seems nice. Slightly claustrophobic somehow even after the Elise (with it's hard top on) but still pretty much like a car. Trundling round to let it warm up for a few miles and it still seems just like a car. Where are the compromises? The windscreen has demisted, I've adjusted the mirrors using electricity instead of winding the passenger window down by hand trying to pull an old Metro mirror into position, and the engine doesn't seem to mind sitting in traffic. It's not dull, but there is no drama. On the other hand, there is no drama, I'm not sure trundling in traffic ought to be dramatic.
With the engine warmed up I start giving it some throttle – makes a nice noise, like a Subaru, but without the shame. Feels maybe a bit slower than the 160, but then it would, because it doesn't sound like being in a tumble drier being dragged over gravel. I'm impressed, it does a very good job of combining lots of feel with lots of comfort, the steering is excellent, the gear change feels nicely positive and heel-and-toe just seems to work – it's something that I'm good at or rubbish at depending on the car, so it's nice when it works.
So, over the next two days I use the Porsche as a car, and it does a very good job of everything. I try my tedious morning commute (5 miles of winding B road and no traffic – hence the Elise as a daily drive). I take Mrs Muppet to a 90th birthday party and people are either impressed by the car or don't notice it – the same family have been very “forgiving” of some of the flash and/or dreadful cars I've turned up in before, and this seems to be a hit. I ponce around to my brother's house and spend a happy hour trying to work out whether we should buy a 944 together, and who has to find a parking space for it. A nice lady spends five minutes in it and tells me that she'd like a Porsche, but not one like this, she wants a “Carrera”. Seems like Porsche marketing isn't faultless. A four year old boy spends a reasonably comfortable minute in the front boot (he wanted to know what was in the front after working out where he engine was).
All the time I'm driving it on wet nasty winter roads, and it just works. Like a normal car, unless you want to do something special, in which case it's exactly like I imagined a Porsche should be. Solidly fun. If you had to have one car to do everything this would do nicely.
I experienced none of the consequences of the engine being in the wrong end, despite decades of mocking silly rear engined cars. On my single “dab of oppo” moment (whilst being followed by the Porsche's owner) it moved out slowly, with loads of time to correct it, until the traction control spoiled the fun, and I'm not driving god [5]. Nice and friendly. I'd need a track or lots of stupidity to crash one of these.
It's not all good, obviously. The speedo calibration is insane. 0, 25, 50, 75. Thanks Porsche, really useful. There is a digital speedo, but why fit a useless analogue gauge too? Also why fit the rear wiper button on the passenger side of the car? It forces you to feel across the hard plastic dash to try to find it. I'm not a dashboard fetishist, and I find the S1 Elise dash unobjectionable, but some of the 996 dash feels like the sort of thing people who touch dashboards all the time would hate (though I normally view any criticism of dashboard plastics as proof there is nothing seriously wrong with a car). If the rear wipers were on one of the four steering wheel stalks I'd never have noticed.
Also, can we all just agree that car heater controls should be three dial controls, and that lighting all the buttons up with identical single points of light isn't helpful. Trying to get warmer/colder/demisted means staring at the dash display while driving. I'd rather have the Elise's feeble demisting capability than have to park to adjust temperature.
So, downsides: none really, not real ones. Finding the money to buy and run one seems to be the only problem.
I can see how these things have become the default choice for fixing a mid-life crisis. Fast enough, fun when you want it to be, blessed with the worlds best door armrests (seriously – why aren't all armrests also a glovebox?) and yet no compromises at all. I didn't even get any jealousy fueled hate. I'll stick with the Elise though. I've got the only S1 that doesn't leak and I can get in and out of it just fine.
Would you like it? Go test drive one, I loved 968s until I drove one, and hated 996s until I drove this one. It turns out the internet and magazines are rubbish for deciding this sort of thing. I've written this because it was a genuinely amazing weekend, I had a great time and found out that some of my long standing opinions were rubbish, which is always fun. Plus it really did make an excellent noise. So go swap cars with someone [6].
And the Porsche's owner - what did he think of the Elise? He did 4 miles in it.
It's nice that we both bought the right car.
[1] Pretty much, ignoring the huge damage that stuffing my fat arse in an Elise does to the power to weight, and ignoring Porsche publishing the weight for the car without the optional windscreen and seats.
[2] The Elise is a few months older, but 30,000 miles younger.
[3] With me driving, it'd be close enough, plus it's not something I'd ever try anyway.
[4] Yes, he is really nice. Also he genuinely is a powerfully built company director, who likes MX5s but is too manly to own one. Amazing he isn't on PH.
[5] I was 12th best in class at the final round of the 2009 British Drift Championship. Yes, I'm showing off, but that's the main point of drifting. That and fun.
[6] Enjoyment not guarenteed, your experience may differ, especially if some git slides your new Porsche up a slip road
Edited by Captain Muppet on Monday 23 January 22:41
fido said:
What don't you like about 968s?
The one I drove felt fine to drive, but also exactly like my E34 535 despite being ten time more expensive. Love died. Shame, because I really really wanted a 968. CS. In blue.I bought the Elise instead, despite hating the colour, and not liking convertibles. There is very little logic to any of this, which is why "what car" threads are always so long and dull.
Captain Muppet said:
The one I drove felt fine to drive, but also exactly like my E34 535 despite being ten time more expensive. Love died. Shame, because I really really wanted a 968. CS. In blue.
I bought the Elise instead, despite hating the colour, and not liking convertibles. There is very little logic to any of this, which is why "what car" threads are always so long and dull.
Interesting that, I really wanted a 968cs in blue like my mates dad had, but it felt really dated. Ended up with a VX220 instead. I bought the Elise instead, despite hating the colour, and not liking convertibles. There is very little logic to any of this, which is why "what car" threads are always so long and dull.
icepop said:
You and your bloody, Porsche, biased, anti Elise based write ups. Come on Scufferinio, sort the heretic out. Obvious Troll, get him banned.
(Can you borrow a Brera off one of your mates, the guys on the Alfa site love any form of critisism too, 'specially Big Al)
I'm not really sure what all of that means. Are you sure you used enough words and not too many commas? Other people said nice things, and that made me happy, so thanks to them. (Can you borrow a Brera off one of your mates, the guys on the Alfa site love any form of critisism too, 'specially Big Al)
I don't know anyone with an Alfa, but when my brother had a 146 1.7 I borrowed that, and it was riddled with character. Started second time, every time. We all still miss it.
Just seen this...
Good write up.
I have the opposite experience.
I always loved the look of the 911, read every review then Dad (car dealer) got one in stock, a 1986 3. (something) in grey.
I was running an E36 328 at the time, I borrowed the 911 for a month (as everyone said it took time to get used to one) it didn't go, stop or corner as well as my 328. It sounded like a beetle, I was dreadfully disappointed. I know on paper the 911 should be the far better car but I can only say that it wasn't despite me wanting it to be.
I also beat a mate from a rolling start to 100 in his 911 so either we both had duff ones / they aren't as quick as they claim or my 328 was a very good one.
Later a mate bought a 135 Elise again a car I wanted - I jumped out of my 210bhp MX5 and I was completely underwelmed. It just didn't go, the steering was nice and direct but that was about it - I've had plenty of £5k 120bhp Westys and they are in a different league.
Lastly I also liked 968's and after a short test drive I love them for the blend of practicality and performance, I've always prefered front engine and RWD and steering via the throttle, I'm currently looking to buy one.
Good write up.
I have the opposite experience.
I always loved the look of the 911, read every review then Dad (car dealer) got one in stock, a 1986 3. (something) in grey.
I was running an E36 328 at the time, I borrowed the 911 for a month (as everyone said it took time to get used to one) it didn't go, stop or corner as well as my 328. It sounded like a beetle, I was dreadfully disappointed. I know on paper the 911 should be the far better car but I can only say that it wasn't despite me wanting it to be.
I also beat a mate from a rolling start to 100 in his 911 so either we both had duff ones / they aren't as quick as they claim or my 328 was a very good one.
Later a mate bought a 135 Elise again a car I wanted - I jumped out of my 210bhp MX5 and I was completely underwelmed. It just didn't go, the steering was nice and direct but that was about it - I've had plenty of £5k 120bhp Westys and they are in a different league.
Lastly I also liked 968's and after a short test drive I love them for the blend of practicality and performance, I've always prefered front engine and RWD and steering via the throttle, I'm currently looking to buy one.
LukeBird said:
Great write up, I enjoyed that!
Did the Porsche owner really dislike the Elise that much to do just 4 miles in it?
No, that was misleading, he had a busy weekend (mostly away riding bikes) and anyway has driven it loads before. He likes it, but wouldn't buy one. Did the Porsche owner really dislike the Elise that much to do just 4 miles in it?
I like his Porsche, but wouldn't buy one. People are different.
Pretty much sums up my experience of the cars in question. The 996 (in all the versions that I've driven) is good at just about everything and I can fully see why people buy them... but I didn't come away from it with any particular desire to own one. I absolutely loved borrowing a 996 Carrera 2. The feel, balance and handling were staggering given I ran a V6 Mondeo at the time. I've wanted one ever since although finances won't allow. I wasn't impressed with the 996 Carrera 4S although I think that was more to do with the tiptronic gearbox than the car itself. The C2 felt lighter and despite not having the wider track, better resolved in the bends.
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