Karts: a handling benchmark?

[Captain Muppet]

Hello,

I keep seeing people use the phase "handles like a kart".

I drive a car with a solidly locked diff, and it does handle like a kart, in that just like the karts I drove a couple of weeks ago it has catastrophic understeer in the wet, is only consistently neutral under reasonable cornering load, has a tendency towards massive oversteer and is hugely unsettled by uneven surfaces. Also - rear brakes only can never be a good thing.

Do people who use this cliché really think kart-like handling is a good thing?
Or do they mean "has instant useful feedback like a kart"?
Or do they mean "has clarity of purpose like a kart"?
Or do they mean "karts are really fun, and so is this other thing, albeit in a much more sophisticated way which is beyond my vocabulary to adequately describe"?
Or do they mean "I got worn down after twenty minutes and gave up, it's like fighting off an army of zombie babies"?
Or, and this is entirely possible, do I have no idea what handling is?*

Surely having no diff, suspension by chassis flex and bellcrank steering can't really be the pinnacle of handling excellence, can it? And does the cliché make any more or less sense when applied to racing karts instead of the rubbish rental ones most people think of?

I know, worst "I have a car with a welded diff/went karting" thread ever.

I await knee-jerk responses from people who have partially read this post with anticipation bordering on mania.

* if it's this one don't just agree, teach me please

[DanDC5]

I think it's more the comparison of the feedback and kart gives over anything else.

[Willber]

I think it refers to the feel of zero body roll more than anything.

[bicycleshorts]

They probably mean the feeling over being low/planted to the ground with little body roll.

Most people I've heard use it to describe things like a Clio, any in depth analysis falls down at FWD.

File it alongside 'nippy'.

[SturdyHSV]

Willber said:

I think it refers to the feel of zero body roll more than anything.

I'd say probably this. Responsive to steering input and no body roll...

[PhillipM]

Same as 'Handles like it's on rails', gives anyone quoting it instant numpty status.

[Kong]

doogz said:

PhillipM said:

Same as 'Handles like it's on rails', gives anyone quoting it instant numpty status.

Indeed. It handles like it has no handling characteristics whatsoever.

Don't they mean 'corners like it's on rails' though? In which case the expression makes sense.

[R300will]

I think the idea is that it is neutrally balanced and you can chuck it about with relative comfort. I've seen it mentioned on here that a celica like mine 'handles like a kart'. It doesn't. It's not neutral its FWD with the engine in the front and only a fuel tank and spare wheel weighing down the back.

However on light fuel loads you can chuck it around with ease and it is very good fun. Until the stability control kicks in i will find a way to turn it off

Caterhams come close tbh. Also mud buggies.

[Dave Hedgehog]

bicycleshorts said:

They probably mean the feeling over being low/planted to the ground with little body roll.

Most people I've heard use it to describe things like a Clio, any in depth analysis falls down at FWD.

File it alongside 'nippy'.

i would add instant steering response and probably massive cornering G

the mr2 roadsters direction change is very cart like

[bqf]

I think people mean 'it has a wheel at each corner with limited overhang, is small and light and there is an immediate response through the steering'.

I've never actually driven a car that handled like a kart though, which is great news, as I would now be pushing up daisies! Karting is great but if cars handled like Karts there would be 1,000,000 road fatalities every year!

[300bhp/ton]

Captain Muppet said:

Hello,

I keep seeing people use the phase "handles like a kart".

I drive a car with a solidly locked diff, and it does handle like a kart, in that just like the karts I drove a couple of weeks ago it has catastrophic understeer in the wet, is only consistently neutral under reasonable cornering load, has a tendency towards massive oversteer and is hugely unsettled by uneven surfaces. Also - rear brakes only can never be a good thing.

Do people who use this cliché really think kart-like handling is a good thing?
Or do they mean "has instant useful feedback like a kart"?
Or do they mean "has clarity of purpose like a kart"?
Or do they mean "karts are really fun, and so is this other thing, albeit in a much more sophisticated way which is beyond my vocabulary to adequately describe"?
Or do they mean "I got worn down after twenty minutes and gave up, it's like fighting off an army of zombie babies"?
Or, and this is entirely possible, do I have no idea what handling is?*

Surely having no diff, suspension by chassis flex and bellcrank steering can't really be the pinnacle of handling excellence, can it? And does the cliché make any more or less sense when applied to racing karts instead of the rubbish rental ones most people think of?

I know, worst "I have a car with a welded diff/went karting" thread ever.

I await knee-jerk responses from people who have partially read this post with anticipation bordering on mania.

* if it's this one don't just agree, teach me please

Reckon it's more to do with the 'c' instead of 'k' type of kart

[rohrl]

It's one of the standard cliches which are uploaded to a motoring journalist upon starting their first job.

See also -

"Corners like it's on rails."
The word "scribe".
"Oil-burner" to describe a diesel.
"parsimonious" to describe a fuel-efficient car. (Car went through a phase of using this word several times an issue.)

And a million others.

[MarkRSi]

doogz said:

Willber said:

I think it refers to the feel of zero body roll more than anything.

I had countless people tell me that my Clio handled like a go-kart. The body roll for such a "sporty" car, was horrific.

Thing is after a go-karting session I had a lift round the track in a Ferrari F430.

In isolation you could probably say it handled "like a go kart" but after the go-karts it seem to handle like a boat, massive body roll in the corners and incredibly slow to change direction. Great sound and straight line speed though

And the drive home in my MR2 roadster (which no doubt has been described as "like a go-kart" on a number of occasions) felt more like a sofa which handling to match

[Captain Muppet]

300bhp/ton said:

Reckon it's more to do with the 'c' instead of 'k' type of kart

Most convincing reply so far

[J4CKO]

I find with Karts, people approach them and assume as they are small they will be easy to drive fast, they quickly learn that isnt the case and then think you have to wrestle them round like driving an angry Pig, thats why they arent very fast, they get brutal with it when it is actually sustained and accurate use of leverage, it is kind of like how most people apprach a really hot curry, they only feel and react to the heat and not the more subtle aspects.

So, I think generally it means, Hard, small, pointy, in reality they are nothing like Karts, even a MK2 Golf on Coilovers after a Karting session felt like an American limo in comparison.

[Twincam16]

Also, there are big variations between karts. A twin-engined Pro-Kart is much heavier and will understeer much more readily than a two-stroke C100 kart, which clings on very hard in corners, and has very different power/torque delivery compared to a SodiKart - and so on.

[thinfourth2]

Kong said:

doogz said:

PhillipM said:

Same as 'Handles like it's on rails', gives anyone quoting it instant numpty status.

Indeed. It handles like it has no handling characteristics whatsoever.

Don't they mean 'corners like it's on rails' though? In which case the expression makes sense.

The wifes old Honda accord handled like it was on rails

Sadly these invisible rails rarely actually went in the direction you wanted to and had been laid by someone who was pissed. Also you only had vague influence in the direction it went.

Bloody awful car

[samoht]

I think they mean 'has very sharp steering response' - which is a noticeable kart characteristic.

[Baryonyx]

Willber said:

I think it refers to the feel of zero body roll more than anything.

This, that flat cornering profile with no body roll. Typically seen in small, light cars. I don't think anyone who uses the phrase in utter earnest has ever driven a kart, mainly because they feel nothing like a road car or even a performance road car. But yes, if you're talking about something that feels small, accurate and corners without roll then most people would know what you were getting at without thinking the car in question was 100% analogous with a kart.

[hufggfg]

Whilst I absolutely agree that when you take it absolutely literally, it is a rather strange saying (though one which I have myself used at times) one thing I would say is that a 2-stroke race kart handles very differently to the horrible heavy things you can hire at kart circuits.

Although the comparison to a race kart is still not perfect, it's a lot closer.