Mucky pictures
Discussion
Decided as i had a day off today to clean (I bloody hate waxoyl)and POR 15 the rear suspension of the Griff plus change the ARB drop links to Steve Heaths rose jointed ones. Not much was bad rust wise just the top wishbones a little flaky and the seatbelt mounts
Taken me all day but here are the pics of the offside (nearside got the same treatment)
Check out the droplink in the after pic (I also changed the fronts)
Sitting here with a cold beer chillin now!!
Taken me all day but here are the pics of the offside (nearside got the same treatment)
Check out the droplink in the after pic (I also changed the fronts)
Sitting here with a cold beer chillin now!!
Edited by puffsorted2 on Wednesday 6th September 21:33
Edited by puffsorted2 on Wednesday 6th September 21:34
Difficult to tell from your piccys, but it looks as though the top rose joint is misaligned. Of course, the geometry on TIVs may not all be the same, but when I fitted mine I found that the angle of rotation for the top joint was at 90 dergees to the bottom. Not easy to put into words, but as the suspension moves up and down, the roll bar decsribes an arc, pointing more or less to a point somewhere behind the tail pipes. Put your car on stands, and watch as you jack up the wishbones. If this rotation is not in the same plane as the (top) rose joint, the drop link will not work properly, and you will get the link catching across the top joint. If this is really bad, you will hear a lot of clunking as you drive along. Best way to tell, and you don't need a jack, is to reach under, and just with your fingers, you should be able to rotate the drop link round its axis by about ten degrees. If you can do this, there will be ample play for the rose joints to work properly as you drive down our velvet smooth roads.
If none of this makes any sense, and that I can believe, then let me know and I wil put up some piccys trying to show what I mean. When I fitted mine, I was in lots of discussion with Steve H, and the instructions (good) can be made a bit clearer.
Incidentally, the front links shoul be able to rotate rond their axis too - but a bit more, about twenty degrees. To get free play on the front was a bit of a pian, as the natural tendancy is to get the joints locked as you tighten the lock nuts. Broke my heart, but the only way I could keep the alingment right was to put mole grips onto that nice finish (as the front joins are round, not hex like the rear). If the front are locked though, you will break the joint. I did.
Chasis clean up looks nice - how did you do it? Can I bring mine round?
If none of this makes any sense, and that I can believe, then let me know and I wil put up some piccys trying to show what I mean. When I fitted mine, I was in lots of discussion with Steve H, and the instructions (good) can be made a bit clearer.
Incidentally, the front links shoul be able to rotate rond their axis too - but a bit more, about twenty degrees. To get free play on the front was a bit of a pian, as the natural tendancy is to get the joints locked as you tighten the lock nuts. Broke my heart, but the only way I could keep the alingment right was to put mole grips onto that nice finish (as the front joins are round, not hex like the rear). If the front are locked though, you will break the joint. I did.
Chasis clean up looks nice - how did you do it? Can I bring mine round?
red griff roger said:
Difficult to tell from your piccys, but it looks as though the top rose joint is misaligned. Of course, the geometry on TIVs may not all be the same, but when I fitted mine I found that the angle of rotation for the top joint was at 90 dergees to the bottom. Not easy to put into words, but as the suspension moves up and down, the roll bar decsribes an arc, pointing more or less to a point somewhere behind the tail pipes. Put your car on stands, and watch as you jack up the wishbones. If this rotation is not in the same plane as the (top) rose joint, the drop link will not work properly, and you will get the link catching across the top joint. If this is really bad, you will hear a lot of clunking as you drive along. Best way to tell, and you don't need a jack, is to reach under, and just with your fingers, you should be able to rotate the drop link round its axis by about ten degrees. If you can do this, there will be ample play for the rose joints to work properly as you drive down our velvet smooth roads.
If none of this makes any sense, and that I can believe, then let me know and I wil put up some piccys trying to show what I mean. When I fitted mine, I was in lots of discussion with Steve H, and the instructions (good) can be made a bit clearer.
Incidentally, the front links shoul be able to rotate rond their axis too - but a bit more, about twenty degrees. To get free play on the front was a bit of a pian, as the natural tendancy is to get the joints locked as you tighten the lock nuts. Broke my heart, but the only way I could keep the alingment right was to put mole grips onto that nice finish (as the front joins are round, not hex like the rear). If the front are locked though, you will break the joint. I did.
Chasis clean up looks nice - how did you do it? Can I bring mine round?
If none of this makes any sense, and that I can believe, then let me know and I wil put up some piccys trying to show what I mean. When I fitted mine, I was in lots of discussion with Steve H, and the instructions (good) can be made a bit clearer.
Incidentally, the front links shoul be able to rotate rond their axis too - but a bit more, about twenty degrees. To get free play on the front was a bit of a pian, as the natural tendancy is to get the joints locked as you tighten the lock nuts. Broke my heart, but the only way I could keep the alingment right was to put mole grips onto that nice finish (as the front joins are round, not hex like the rear). If the front are locked though, you will break the joint. I did.
Chasis clean up looks nice - how did you do it? Can I bring mine round?
It took me a while to work out the alignment, using a mixture of thought! and pic's in the instructions and I thought I had it correct, there is certainly no noise coming from them (though it was the fronts I was worrying about as the offside is mm's from the hub) and car is cornering very flat - the front TVR drop links I removed were very worn.
Send me some pics though and I will compare the angle. Below is the link to the pic I based my alignment on.
www.shengltd.com/tvrextras/griffdroplinkpho.html
For the chassis I used the new POR 15 kit they do. The offside had a lot more waxoyl on it than the nearside. I am not really a fan of waxoyl, my car is a bit of a garage Queen so never really gets wet anyway and the waxoyl just seems to hide any nasty stuff and makes inspection difficult. The before pic is after I had cleaned up a lot of the waxoyl, the seat belt mount as you can see is coated in it, but the powered coating was done for underneath and as can be seen some minor surface rust had formed even under the waxoyl. I have never seen a TVR yet where these didn't need doing if they already hadn't been done - not a place you want weakened steel
The POR 15 kit now comes with a marine cleaner and a surface prep. So I just cleaned off the dirt and waxoyl (neat marine clean stripped this), used 1:1 surface prep with water and a wirebrush to clean of the rust and then painted - took all day mind you. Interestingly the front wishbones are perfect on my car, which is odd as its normally the other way around. I had previously done the outriggers which were virtually rust free.
And no you can't bring yours around!
Edited by puffsorted2 on Thursday 7th September 09:54
Edited by puffsorted2 on Thursday 7th September 09:56
Edited by puffsorted2 on Thursday 7th September 09:56
Edited by puffsorted2 on Thursday 7th September 09:57
Edited by puffsorted2 on Thursday 7th September 12:22
pink_floyd said:
How did you clean off the waxoyl?. Did you juist paint the POR15 over the top of the powder coating, just removing the flakey bits?
POR 15 marine clean removes the waxoyl quite well with a bit of elbow grease. The only flaky bits of powercoating on mine were the seat belt mount, inside of the wishbones and the wishbone mounts. I used a wire brush and a screw driver then to remove an loose coating. The surface prep makes it a little easier to apply POR 15 on to the powder coating but its still a pain.
" used 1:1 surface prep with water and a wirebrush to clean of the rust and then painted "
Do I understand that you used surface prep at the same time as the wire brush? I ask as I'm going to tidy my chassis next week as booked taken leave.. iirc the chap from Frost told me the following order:
1. marine clean
2. wire brush etc
3. surface prep
4. POR
ta
Ed
Do I understand that you used surface prep at the same time as the wire brush? I ask as I'm going to tidy my chassis next week as booked taken leave.. iirc the chap from Frost told me the following order:
1. marine clean
2. wire brush etc
3. surface prep
4. POR
ta
Ed
edt said:
" used 1:1 surface prep with water and a wirebrush to clean of the rust and then painted "
Do I understand that you used surface prep at the same time as the wire brush? I ask as I'm going to tidy my chassis next week as booked taken leave.. iirc the chap from Frost told me the following order:
1. marine clean
2. wire brush etc
3. surface prep
4. POR
ta
Ed
Do I understand that you used surface prep at the same time as the wire brush? I ask as I'm going to tidy my chassis next week as booked taken leave.. iirc the chap from Frost told me the following order:
1. marine clean
2. wire brush etc
3. surface prep
4. POR
ta
Ed
Use some surface prep at stage 2 as well, use it with a wire brush (I had a small rechargable power drill with a wire brush attachment) and you can see it visibly disolve the rust and bare metal return. Stage 3 is more to help the paint to adhere to the power coating.
Red Griff Roger is 100% correct & we had a chat at Oulton Park. I kept the "slots" in the drop links at 90deg to the bar (approx 45deg from the cars centre line). the key bit being "just with your fingers, you should be able to rotate the drop link round its axis by about ten degrees"
I had sheared a front and slightly bent a rear drop link due to poor fitting so take your time & get it right.
I had sheared a front and slightly bent a rear drop link due to poor fitting so take your time & get it right.
It all depends..... Unfortunately the positioning of the ARB and mounts are quite variable so it is difficult to say definitively that way A is better than way B.
The 90 degree orientation didn't work on my car so I can't say it is absolutely the right way to do it because it is clearly isn't. If only... as it would make life so much simpler. The key point is to ensure free movement when the ARB moves. Having the slot parallel with the ARB works with the majority of cars but the other 90 degree orientation is also applicable. The key point is to test the fitting. Jack up one side and see if the rose joints lock out. If they do then adjust the position.
What I will do is add both alternatives to the fitting instructions which will hopefully improve the fitting data.
BTW it is this variation that causes the originals to die so frequently as often they are just forced and deformed to get the drop link in place. It is also way that mounting plate cracks as the original is often forced about 20 or more degress and this tries to twist the plate and over time it breaks.
The 90 degree orientation didn't work on my car so I can't say it is absolutely the right way to do it because it is clearly isn't. If only... as it would make life so much simpler. The key point is to ensure free movement when the ARB moves. Having the slot parallel with the ARB works with the majority of cars but the other 90 degree orientation is also applicable. The key point is to test the fitting. Jack up one side and see if the rose joints lock out. If they do then adjust the position.
What I will do is add both alternatives to the fitting instructions which will hopefully improve the fitting data.
BTW it is this variation that causes the originals to die so frequently as often they are just forced and deformed to get the drop link in place. It is also way that mounting plate cracks as the original is often forced about 20 or more degress and this tries to twist the plate and over time it breaks.
Edited by shpub on Saturday 9th September 10:04
I have now rotated mine around and now there is lots of moment available, you can twist them through about 15 degrees by hand just by reaching under the car. I had a look at the fronts as well and one of those needed adjusting also. The backs on mine were impossible to get vertical as the ARB mount was directly under the wishbone mount and the rose joint could either go on the inside or the outside of the ARB, neither of which could give a vertical postion, in the end the outside (as opposed to the inside I had in the photo's) gave the most articulation so I have gone for that
Certainly doing their job anyway as a quick test drive was easily enough to demostrate how much flatter the car was cornering, felt awesome, my Chimaera had 17" alloys with 40 aspect tyre's on and initially I found the Griff rolled alot more on its taller tyres - not so now
Certainly doing their job anyway as a quick test drive was easily enough to demostrate how much flatter the car was cornering, felt awesome, my Chimaera had 17" alloys with 40 aspect tyre's on and initially I found the Griff rolled alot more on its taller tyres - not so now
Edited by puffsorted2 on Saturday 9th September 14:51
Edited by puffsorted2 on Saturday 9th September 14:52
[quote=shpub]It all depends..... Unfortunately the positioning of the ARB and mounts are quite variable so it is difficult to say definitively that way A is better than way B.
There is probably a position C too. Steve is right that the key is to make sure the joint doesn't lock as the ARB goes up and down. If you can rotate the link round its axis, you should be OK. I can do this by hand by just reaching under the car.
I will be jacking the car up soon (see thread on rotor arm - now I have low voltage, so begin the fun of cleaning all the earth points. I didn't like the look of Steve's quote in the Bible "this is a swine of a job by all accounts". After spinning the starter for quite some time with the RAC to try to get the thing started, I suspect I have weakened a connection somewhere. Before I start another thread - altenator is brand new, and (newish) battery reads 12.7V. However, if someone has ideas .... Symptoms are slightly low reading on voltmeter, oil pressure and temperature (in fact, on Friday, volts dropped to 0 and car was not keen on going quickly, but did get me home. At home battery was dead - ran the fans but wouldn't turn the starter. It was only a short run (c 10 miles) and was max before I started - was on trickle charge.)
Anyway, will post some pictures. But I am uncertain if my web security will let me upload jpeg under the title 'Mucky Pictures'.
roger
There is probably a position C too. Steve is right that the key is to make sure the joint doesn't lock as the ARB goes up and down. If you can rotate the link round its axis, you should be OK. I can do this by hand by just reaching under the car.
I will be jacking the car up soon (see thread on rotor arm - now I have low voltage, so begin the fun of cleaning all the earth points. I didn't like the look of Steve's quote in the Bible "this is a swine of a job by all accounts". After spinning the starter for quite some time with the RAC to try to get the thing started, I suspect I have weakened a connection somewhere. Before I start another thread - altenator is brand new, and (newish) battery reads 12.7V. However, if someone has ideas .... Symptoms are slightly low reading on voltmeter, oil pressure and temperature (in fact, on Friday, volts dropped to 0 and car was not keen on going quickly, but did get me home. At home battery was dead - ran the fans but wouldn't turn the starter. It was only a short run (c 10 miles) and was max before I started - was on trickle charge.)
Anyway, will post some pictures. But I am uncertain if my web security will let me upload jpeg under the title 'Mucky Pictures'.
roger
edt said:
I'd like to treat the length of the chassis with POR15 now.. I'd need to squirt it up in the gaps though. If I mixed with a touch of POR thinners you think this would be possible? Sure it's too thick as is
d
d
Says not to mix it with thinners, depends how neat a job you want to do. I have slapped it on, looks a mess from underneath but at least I know its covered
Gassing Station | Griffith | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff