Porsche 996 GT3 and PSS9
Discussion
Hi, I am wondering if anyone has a 996 gt3 on PSS9 shocks and springs...?
After some comparison to KW V3 I want to change my KW and have no experience of these PSS9 on a gt3... Want to know if the one adjuster that adjusts compression and rebound together is any good at all?
Also how firm can you get them for track use?
Thanks
Mike
After some comparison to KW V3 I want to change my KW and have no experience of these PSS9 on a gt3... Want to know if the one adjuster that adjusts compression and rebound together is any good at all?
Also how firm can you get them for track use?
Thanks
Mike
Edited by sportsandclassic on Sunday 13th May 21:52
Mike,
I've driven plenty on PSS9. It's usually the first stage folks go to when modifying their cars.
The one control option obviously is less flexible than 2 way, just as 2 way offers less control than 3 way however it can very much be managed and I've found that most owners with multi way shock control don't know what they are doing with them anyways.
What are you looking to achieve, what's niggling you with your current setup? Let us know what you're thinking
I've driven plenty on PSS9. It's usually the first stage folks go to when modifying their cars.
The one control option obviously is less flexible than 2 way, just as 2 way offers less control than 3 way however it can very much be managed and I've found that most owners with multi way shock control don't know what they are doing with them anyways.
What are you looking to achieve, what's niggling you with your current setup? Let us know what you're thinking
keep it lit said:
fioran0 said:
Mike,
What are you looking to achieve, what's niggling you with your current setup?
he is struggling to get close to the ninja in the old mk1 on road or track.What are you looking to achieve, what's niggling you with your current setup?
Am after something more road friendly but still firm enough for track days.
Just not happy with the V3, have got a few more settings to try and then I will decide on a different damper/spring combination..
Mike
sportsandclassic said:
I think we both know that is not true
Am after something more road friendly but still firm enough for track days.
Just not happy with the V3, have got a few more settings to try and then I will decide on a different damper/spring combination..
Mike
Given that a standard suspension GT3 ain't too shabby on track then PSS9's should be better. Won't KW revalve their stuff based on your preferences? That would be a cheaper option.Am after something more road friendly but still firm enough for track days.
Just not happy with the V3, have got a few more settings to try and then I will decide on a different damper/spring combination..
Mike
I put PSS9's on my turbo and it was a marked improvement over the standard stuff but I'm not sure you can draw an exactly parallel conclusion given the differences between our cars.
mike,
one alternative that might be worth a think is whether going to a better shock will improve things with your current spring rate. it will deal with everything with a little more finesse. the KWv3 are a street performance shock and as such are better then the stock items but thats about it. ive driven one car with some on once and found them a bit notchy but cannot comment on whether this is a general trend or that car.
other than that, switching to something like PSS9 might not be as daft as it first seems. to get something thats properly track suitable and can also work on the street you need to get VERY clever. while its possible, you need to calculate and put it together yourself. theres nothing you can buy that will do it off the shelf as its somewhat complex and needs to be calculated for each car individually.
just winding up the shock for track use results in you driving on the shock rather than the spring. its crude and unresponsive.
the problem is that stock spring rates on the 996 GT3 are 228lb/in (256lb/in RS) front, 543lb/in rear while track 996GT3 rates start at around 700lb/in front, 900lb/in rear (usually on cars with less weight too). this is quite a big gap to try and bridge if you assume that the stock stuff is the hardest you want for the street use.
compromising usually just ends up with something that doesnt do either particularly well meaning you are usually just better off getting a high quality setup that works well on the street and working with it when you do track days. I assume this was the reasoning for you thinking of PSS9s as they would fall nicely into this category.
There were plenty of people out at the RS day pushing on without track suspension.
couple of quick thoughts though..
where are your front drop links mounted? pinch bolt or spring platform. alot of aftermarket links mount to the pinch bolt and impact how the suspension works.
remember you can adjust your sway bars too. softening them up will help on the road
one alternative that might be worth a think is whether going to a better shock will improve things with your current spring rate. it will deal with everything with a little more finesse. the KWv3 are a street performance shock and as such are better then the stock items but thats about it. ive driven one car with some on once and found them a bit notchy but cannot comment on whether this is a general trend or that car.
other than that, switching to something like PSS9 might not be as daft as it first seems. to get something thats properly track suitable and can also work on the street you need to get VERY clever. while its possible, you need to calculate and put it together yourself. theres nothing you can buy that will do it off the shelf as its somewhat complex and needs to be calculated for each car individually.
just winding up the shock for track use results in you driving on the shock rather than the spring. its crude and unresponsive.
the problem is that stock spring rates on the 996 GT3 are 228lb/in (256lb/in RS) front, 543lb/in rear while track 996GT3 rates start at around 700lb/in front, 900lb/in rear (usually on cars with less weight too). this is quite a big gap to try and bridge if you assume that the stock stuff is the hardest you want for the street use.
compromising usually just ends up with something that doesnt do either particularly well meaning you are usually just better off getting a high quality setup that works well on the street and working with it when you do track days. I assume this was the reasoning for you thinking of PSS9s as they would fall nicely into this category.
There were plenty of people out at the RS day pushing on without track suspension.
couple of quick thoughts though..
where are your front drop links mounted? pinch bolt or spring platform. alot of aftermarket links mount to the pinch bolt and impact how the suspension works.
remember you can adjust your sway bars too. softening them up will help on the road
Edited by fioran0 on Tuesday 15th May 00:35
ROK said:
you bought a gt3. why downgrade with aftermarket bits intended for carreras and turbos?
Hi, I am not downgrading anything at minute just tyrying to get some ideas on this setup with a GT3. I am unsure how a PSS9 kit can be classed as a downgrade from standard suspension..?Mike
One tick in the "against" column for me, Mike.
I've tried a GT3 on PSS9 and felt it was neither precise enough for the track nor would it give me sufficient confidence on the road. This was on a car with a fast road geometry. Maybe we could have experimented with other geometry, but it felt like there wasn't enough bite at the front and the back seemed oddly disconnected.
KWv3 on the other hand felt like a different car altogether.
I've tried a GT3 on PSS9 and felt it was neither precise enough for the track nor would it give me sufficient confidence on the road. This was on a car with a fast road geometry. Maybe we could have experimented with other geometry, but it felt like there wasn't enough bite at the front and the back seemed oddly disconnected.
KWv3 on the other hand felt like a different car altogether.
..I've run KWV3's .. nice struts, but I changed because it's just too fiddly messing about with a 2mm key for the rebound, crawling under the car with a 4 mm key for the front bump was bad enough but the rear bump was a 2mm peg in a post and 1/4 turn a go, and you will need to reset to soft to drive home again, I went for some struts with knurled knobs on and remote canisters you can get to easily, you end up dropping the keys in the cold and you have to find it before going out again, if you're on a gravel car park for set up it's hopeless.. Ohlins do some lovely struts at a price, Intrax maybe or AST do some..
Spring ratings will of course be tyre dependant, if it's too stiff and not on slicks, you wont get the strut moving, plenty of folk running cups or 888's on here will know the ratings you need..
The KW damping I found fine, it was the adjustability which is there undoing.. !
Spring ratings will of course be tyre dependant, if it's too stiff and not on slicks, you wont get the strut moving, plenty of folk running cups or 888's on here will know the ratings you need..
The KW damping I found fine, it was the adjustability which is there undoing.. !
Edited by RatBoy M3CSL on Tuesday 15th May 10:42
But bump and rebound are there to tune/control the spring response. You can't make a 300lb spring behave like a 100lb spring or a 500lb spring by winding the shock up or down and this is the fundamental issue. Though I know plenty people don't understand shock setting and think they are/can.
If mike is finding his car too stiff for the road then it's a spring rate change that's needed, possibly in combination with travel change. The only potential alternative would be to switch up to a better shock and hope that the improved response of this would smooth out the crashiness and make the firm spring more bareable.
He could of course select a spring rate that he feels would work for his needs and get the KWv3 revalved by KW to match this new rate but without experience of how rate changes impact the car and how the revalved shock copes (can it travel enough, are the adjustment steps spaced well for a softer spring etc) how does he decide what's suitable?
PSS9 are about the only shock upgrade option that come setup with a road bias. They offer more than going back to oem while saving the user the trouble of designing his own suspension. They of course will not feel as responsive as a more firmly sprung setup, this is the trade off.
The v3 is not great stuff. It's not even monotube and below even the level of the lowly KW clubsport stuff never mind moton etc or the more serious race stuff.
If mike is finding his car too stiff for the road then it's a spring rate change that's needed, possibly in combination with travel change. The only potential alternative would be to switch up to a better shock and hope that the improved response of this would smooth out the crashiness and make the firm spring more bareable.
He could of course select a spring rate that he feels would work for his needs and get the KWv3 revalved by KW to match this new rate but without experience of how rate changes impact the car and how the revalved shock copes (can it travel enough, are the adjustment steps spaced well for a softer spring etc) how does he decide what's suitable?
PSS9 are about the only shock upgrade option that come setup with a road bias. They offer more than going back to oem while saving the user the trouble of designing his own suspension. They of course will not feel as responsive as a more firmly sprung setup, this is the trade off.
The v3 is not great stuff. It's not even monotube and below even the level of the lowly KW clubsport stuff never mind moton etc or the more serious race stuff.
Edited by fioran0 on Tuesday 15th May 11:11
fioran0 said:
RatBoy M3CSL said:
.., plenty of folk running cups or 888's on here will know the ratings you need..
I expect that most folks don't even know the spring rate that's on their own car....
Edited by RatBoy M3CSL on Tuesday 15th May 11:56
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