The dreaded ticking
Discussion
Hi Guys (moved this from the Speed6 forum as it seems a bit sleepy)
Some advice please.
2002 15K mile Tuscan. Always been a bit "ticky" through the bulkhad, esp around 2-3K. Hard to hear specifically with the ear near to engine.
Been running just fine. Took it out Saturday and immediately it sounded noiser than normal. Drove some 40miles to destination and back and kept it fairly easy. Definately not right !
Just popped off the cam cover to find:
Cam shaft on CYL 5 inlet. One lobe is very sad. Actually by eye it even looks like the lobe is bit lower than the partner and a less agressive shape !
Shim seems fairly normal. Clearnace is about right at 6thou (which of course means nowt if the lobe is knackered!)
Some light wear and has obviously been rotating as it should.
So, guess its obviously new cam time.
Can it be done in the car ?
Would it prudent to whip the head off (there is deffo a minor oil leak from he inlet side around cyl 4/5 ish) and give it a proper once-over and even refurb.
Wonder about the state of the value guides. It does puff a bit of smoke on cold start up...guess the oil is leaking past the seals a bit.
Some advice please.
2002 15K mile Tuscan. Always been a bit "ticky" through the bulkhad, esp around 2-3K. Hard to hear specifically with the ear near to engine.
Been running just fine. Took it out Saturday and immediately it sounded noiser than normal. Drove some 40miles to destination and back and kept it fairly easy. Definately not right !
Just popped off the cam cover to find:
Cam shaft on CYL 5 inlet. One lobe is very sad. Actually by eye it even looks like the lobe is bit lower than the partner and a less agressive shape !
Shim seems fairly normal. Clearnace is about right at 6thou (which of course means nowt if the lobe is knackered!)
Some light wear and has obviously been rotating as it should.
So, guess its obviously new cam time.
Can it be done in the car ?
Would it prudent to whip the head off (there is deffo a minor oil leak from he inlet side around cyl 4/5 ish) and give it a proper once-over and even refurb.
Wonder about the state of the value guides. It does puff a bit of smoke on cold start up...guess the oil is leaking past the seals a bit.
BGB autosport said:
Thought it might, I would go with a standard cam, the tricky decision is what fingers, standard or DLC's fro RG.
I would give RG a call and discuss, i think the consensus is that if you go with the DLC's you should match with RG's uprated cams and keep them as a pair. I have read elsewhere that the DLC's arent good on standard shafts (may be wrong but its worth checking).I have DLC's and uprated RG's cams in my car, they were replaced when it had its first 'rebuild'(dont get me started). When St8 Six stripped the engine for its second rebuild they were still immaculate so i reused them (...about the only thing that was reused
) Hi Pete there are two oil feeds on the inlet side that go to the head they feed into the rocker shaft on the inlet side the oil travels to the back of the head and stops, it also travels to the front of the head across to the exhaust side rockershaft, then down the exhaust side so the last place to get oil wich is the hottest place at the back of the head on the exhaust side, that is why you need to put an oil feed to the exhaust side on the back of the head to get oil direct to the last point that gets oil. I know of some cams if your intrested contact me.
Robertjp said:
BGB autosport said:
Thought it might, I would go with a standard cam, the tricky decision is what fingers, standard or DLC's fro RG.
I would give RG a call and discuss, i think the consensus is that if you go with the DLC's you should match with RG's uprated cams and keep them as a pair. I have read elsewhere that the DLC's arent good on standard shafts (may be wrong but its worth checking).I have DLC's and uprated RG's cams in my car, they were replaced when it had its first 'rebuild'(dont get me started). When St8 Six stripped the engine for its second rebuild they were still immaculate so i reused them (...about the only thing that was reused
) BGB autosport said:
Robertjp said:
BGB autosport said:
Thought it might, I would go with a standard cam, the tricky decision is what fingers, standard or DLC's fro RG.
I would give RG a call and discuss, i think the consensus is that if you go with the DLC's you should match with RG's uprated cams and keep them as a pair. I have read elsewhere that the DLC's arent good on standard shafts (may be wrong but its worth checking).I have DLC's and uprated RG's cams in my car, they were replaced when it had its first 'rebuild'(dont get me started). When St8 Six stripped the engine for its second rebuild they were still immaculate so i reused them (...about the only thing that was reused
) 
Its alive again ! And running very nicely. Very ! This must be how the S6 is supposed to sound ;-)
What an interesting, difficult, fun, frustrating etc etc process. But got there in the end. All done with the engine in the car. Yes its difficultbut taking the engine out was just out of reach when I started this.
A massive thank you to dpd3047. Without his help I'd have made tons of mistakes and had a far less sorted solution. Your patience and willingness to help has been legendary sir! And also a big thanks for re-furbing the head with all the nice new valves, springs followers and of course chilled iron cam shafts. Oh and the enhanced oil feed of course.
I must admit I did go a bit OTT and dressed up the engine bay and components as I went, which meant it took longer than planned over all. But worth the result.
Here are a few pics I took along the way. Just a small selection.
Spot the very sick finger follower. Interestingly on the inlet side...All the metal bits were stuck to the magnetic sump and tank plugs
Deffo been buring oil
Check the state of the oilway o-ring (probably explains lack of lube to inlet and oil leak above the oil filter). Both o-rings just as bad
Not pretty. Dave measured one of the valve guides as having 0.5mm play to valve stem
And a rather tired looking tensioner to-boot
Pretty !
Honed the deck nice and flat. Plastic covers and grease down the bores to catch the nasties
HP oil pump got new rotors, LP pump was fine and water pump got new seals
Rehoned the bores with a FlexiHone
Wrapped the manifolds to reduce heat in the engine bay
Modified block and head to fit oil pipes to support those pesky o-rings (new)
Everything now off the block and cleaned with Mr Muscle oven
Almost there
Timing cover gets a gasket
Extra oil feed for exhaust shaft
Cranking with battery alone makes enough pressure to squirt oil at the cams *all the time*
Almost finished
Final tweaks to add some "shim catchers" over the oil returns (just in case
)
I went for modified exhaust cam timing to give a bit more mid-range torque (thanks once more Dave...I can confirm it works ! Broke traction in 3rd at 60mph on a dry road)
Have put about 200miles on it so far. Looking good. Now I can get on with some other chores
What an interesting, difficult, fun, frustrating etc etc process. But got there in the end. All done with the engine in the car. Yes its difficultbut taking the engine out was just out of reach when I started this.
A massive thank you to dpd3047. Without his help I'd have made tons of mistakes and had a far less sorted solution. Your patience and willingness to help has been legendary sir! And also a big thanks for re-furbing the head with all the nice new valves, springs followers and of course chilled iron cam shafts. Oh and the enhanced oil feed of course.
I must admit I did go a bit OTT and dressed up the engine bay and components as I went, which meant it took longer than planned over all. But worth the result.
Here are a few pics I took along the way. Just a small selection.
Spot the very sick finger follower. Interestingly on the inlet side...All the metal bits were stuck to the magnetic sump and tank plugs
Deffo been buring oil
Check the state of the oilway o-ring (probably explains lack of lube to inlet and oil leak above the oil filter). Both o-rings just as bad
Not pretty. Dave measured one of the valve guides as having 0.5mm play to valve stem
And a rather tired looking tensioner to-boot
Pretty !
Honed the deck nice and flat. Plastic covers and grease down the bores to catch the nasties
HP oil pump got new rotors, LP pump was fine and water pump got new seals
Rehoned the bores with a FlexiHone
Wrapped the manifolds to reduce heat in the engine bay
Modified block and head to fit oil pipes to support those pesky o-rings (new)
Everything now off the block and cleaned with Mr Muscle oven
Almost there
Timing cover gets a gasket
Extra oil feed for exhaust shaft
Cranking with battery alone makes enough pressure to squirt oil at the cams *all the time*
Almost finished
Final tweaks to add some "shim catchers" over the oil returns (just in case
)I went for modified exhaust cam timing to give a bit more mid-range torque (thanks once more Dave...I can confirm it works ! Broke traction in 3rd at 60mph on a dry road)
Have put about 200miles on it so far. Looking good. Now I can get on with some other chores
Nice job. I like the mesh over the oil returns idea as shims can always pop out even on a healthy engine and jam the scavenge pump.
BGB autosport said:
Thought it might, I would go with a standard cam, the tricky decision is what fingers, standard or DLC's fro RG.
Mis-matched crank/follower hardness was the primary cause of the S6 problems, followed by soft valve guides. Lubrication or follower geometry, whilst perhaps not optimal were not really a problem.Gassing Station | Tuscan | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff