Road bike tight tyres?

[Herman Toothrot]

Seems I've either got abnormally large rims700c Vision Team 30's or abnormally small tyres, but it's two different makes of tyre so I'm assuming rims. It's so bad I have given up trying to replace an inner tube this evening and will try again when I'm less pissed off. I've never experienced this before, had to really fight to get a 700c 23mm Continental Ultra Sport off and I've failed to get a Vittoria Open Corsa Evo-KX 700c 20mm on. It is going to worry me getting a puncture if I do get the tyre on in the future to be honest as cold hands tired out on a ride I can see a potential big problem.


Anyone else had this issue, is it a trait of more modern rims to keep tyres on if flaring or just bad luck / crap rim?

[Fastpedeller]

I had a strange form of this a while ago - Had Mavic MA2 rims (about 20 years old, never had problems) and bought tyres from an Ebay vendor who also has a real bricks & mortar shop. The tyres were marked on the box as 622-25, and also on the tyre on a yellow panel 622-25, but in the rubber moulding had 622-23. I thought "no worries, not worth returning for 2mm difference", but it took about 1/2 hour or struggling to get one on, plus (and I've never done this before or since!) THE USE OF A TYRE LEVER. I knew if I tried to do this at the roadside, it would be impossible. I tried the second one on the other rim, and couldn't even get it on. I spoke to the dealer, who clearly thought I was a novice (I pointed out to him my 30+ years experience) so he took them back and replaced them. The new ones (a different make) were fine. I suspect the first tyres were rejects of some sort (due to the inconsistent markings). I'll not mention the vendor's name, but if you want to pm me with your vendor, I'll confirm if the same.

[nike 5]

Take inner tube out.
Put the tyre on using tyre levers (to stretch the tyre bead, without inner tube to avoid levers pinching tube)
Take tyre off and repeat.
The fit as normal, with inner tube, using hands.

Remember which side you stretched, for when you get puncture.

Works for me, but others may have a better trick.

[Herman Toothrot]

I'll try mounting it without a tube but I suspect I'm still going to struggle it was hard enough to get the 1st bead on, I've been using park tools tyre levers. They are crazy tight, looking at the rims I think they are the problem, they basically don't have a central well like most, also very narrow. Tyres are from planet x in the sale box marked 20-622 tyres marked the same.

[Magic919]

622-23 and 622-25 is just a 2mm difference in tyre width. That doesn't make them any harder to fit over a rim, as the diameter is the same (622). Variation in actual size is another matter.

[GaryGlitter]

Washing up liquid on the edge of the bead and the lip of the rim.

Lubes up nicely and then washes off easily after.

[sherbertdip]

^^^^^ this ^^^^^^

Although it doesn't help much if you are trying to repair a puncture in the dark in the middle of nowhere.

OP, i'm just interested in why you are running 20mm width tyre? Is it for race track or velodrome use?

[Herman Toothrot]

Because they were on offer £7 each for what was once a £54 tyre, thought I'd give them a go. I know that thin tyres are out of fashion but remember when I used to be in a road club 20 years ago 19-20mm was nothing unusual, at that price I can just replace them if they are too harsh.

[Steve vRS]

I think I may have bent my rim putting on a brand new tyre! I couldn't get it on and so used a lever.

Steve

[wilbo83]

It's definitely those rims, Google it and you will find lots of people saying the same thing.

[nsm3]

Expect tons of pinch flats running 20's - I gave up and went back to 23's, but I've read that current thinking is that 25's may be faster, with plenty of race teams switching to them - may give that a go?

[Dammit]

It's an old fashioned rim profile/width:



So getting a 20c on there would have been in the design parameters I would think.

Odd. I guess there's not much of a central well, so you can't really get the bead much lower.

Can you get larger tyres on?

[curtisl]

I've had this whilst fitting conti 4seasons to a friends bike. It took at least half hour getting the old tyres off and just as long getting the 4seasons on. After two pinched inner tubes, scrapes, bruises and loads of swearing, brute force and ignorance prevailed. The same tyres on my bike slipped straight on. There must be a couple of mm difference there surely.

[WarrenG]

I found that brand new folding bead tyres are an arse to fit. Vittoria Pave and Corse were awful until I had mounted and removed several times on my Campag wheels.

[Matt_N]

My open Corsa went on straight away onto my Archetypes, not had a problem with GP4000s either.

However a pair of wheels I bought came with gatorskins, fudge me they were tough to get off.

[Dammit]

Gators kind should always be cut off a wheel set and put straight into the bin.

[Matt_N]

Dammit said:

Gators kind should always be cut off a wheel set and put straight into the bin.

That's exactly what I did in the end. Hateful things.

[Herman Toothrot]

Well after putting the Vitorrias on and taking them off a few times, they don't seem any easier & I'm tempted to buy new wheels. I did eventually get them on with an inner tube without pinching the tube. I hate to think how it'd be cold and wet on a roadside.. Sure it's the rims, had a Google and indeed I'm not alone with this issue. Getting the last bit of bead on a park tool tyre lever was almost bent at a right angle, thought it was going to snap. I measured the mounted tyre width and the vitorrias measure 20.5mm mounted and the continental 22.5 so not a massive difference in width, the Victoria's appear to grip loads better, so I think even with the old school narrow size and £7 price tag they are an upgrade in the conti's.

Mike Head 01/08/2014 elsewhere on the Internet said said:

I have the PX pro carbon which i got with full ultegra group set for £999 a few months back. I rate the frame and the Ultegra group set but had to change the bars, stem, seat and wheels. The wheels which came with it were FSA Vision 30’s which at first look looked like a bargain they proved near impossible to take the tyre off and a new one on. Even an old Conti tyre took 20 minutes! I sent them back ....

Edited by Herman Toothrot on Sunday 15th February 14:53

[JSquaredJim]

There is a recognised manufacturing fault with Vision Team 30's. A certain batch have not been machined deep enough, (where the tube would sit inside the rim below tyre). This makes it an arse to get tyres on. I bought some vision 30's myself and had the same issue. Sent them back, money back and I now have Fulcrum racing 3's. No problem.
Did you per chance buy them from Planet X?

[Herman Toothrot]

I got them on a Planet X Pro Carbon Ultegra, bought 2nd hand though. I guess the answers eBay and wiggle has Fulcrum 3's for £280...

Edited by Herman Toothrot on Sunday 15th February 15:30