About a Cerbera.....
Discussion
Hello all,
For a while now I have been considering changing my car once I am 25 (currently a 56 plate Orange Focus ST), I have put posts on various other forum sections around PH, namely the Lotus, TVR T350C, and Ford Mustang forums.
I have discounted the Elise/Exige as it just isn’t going to work as a day to day car (I had a sit in an Elise at the motor show and I struggled getting in and out easily, better with the roof off but that would be impractical with a hard top fitted during winter, I’m 6’ 2” by the way), and a good T350C is a bit above my price range (now the arse has fallen out of the used car market and my ST is worth a good 2 to 3 grand less than it should be).
I have test driven a Mustang and I have to say it was a lovely car (despite what you hear about them and a certain TV presenters anti American car bias), but I still have a hankering for something British with a V8. I had thought of a Chimera/Griffith. However I want a hard top really, so that brings me to the Cerbera.
I have heard lots of scare stories about the unreliability of TVR’s, though a guy works at my place has a Griffith 500 and it is always in the car-park when I leave on a night and never there on a morning when I arrive so it must work
.
I should state that it would be a daily runner (I have no space to keep it as a second car for the weekends) and will have to cope with 10k miles per year average and a minimum of 25 – 30 miles a day, come rain or shine, all year round; so I have a few questions: -
The big one is the engine really (as it is with most performance cars). I understand that the engines are “tappety” from cold and this is normal, and they quieten down once the oil is warm and free flowing.
Do you have to leave them to idle for a bit to warm up, or is it best to drive them gently until the oil is warm (like most cars really), and are they fairly solid lumps? What do I need to keep an eye on during weekly maintenance checks?
Are they generally mechanically reliable (gearbox, clutch, diff, suspension etc, etc), and what do I need to look out for.
As they are a fibre glass body I would expect that it is generally robust with few problems but are there any known issues with it?
Electrics, troublesome? Or not? Anything to look out for here?
Interior, any problems here (things rattling, coming loose etc), I don’t use the CD player much in my own car (I could see me using it even less in the Cerb if I bought one) but is it any good? Was air conditioning standard or is that an extra to look out for or potential problem area?
I quite like the look of the twin light conversions on the front, if it doesn’t have these are they expensive? and difficult to fit?
And anything else that I have forgotten that deserves a mention.
I should add that I am quite a mechanically minded person and I have no qualms about getting my hands dirty to keep the car in tip top condition, I am also pretty good at electrics so I can sort out minor problems there too.
I have heard about warranties that can be bought from the likes of the AA etc, are these any good and if so should I consider taking one out if I purchase a Cerbera? Especially with it being an older car.
Thanks in advance,
Matt.
For a while now I have been considering changing my car once I am 25 (currently a 56 plate Orange Focus ST), I have put posts on various other forum sections around PH, namely the Lotus, TVR T350C, and Ford Mustang forums.
I have discounted the Elise/Exige as it just isn’t going to work as a day to day car (I had a sit in an Elise at the motor show and I struggled getting in and out easily, better with the roof off but that would be impractical with a hard top fitted during winter, I’m 6’ 2” by the way), and a good T350C is a bit above my price range (now the arse has fallen out of the used car market and my ST is worth a good 2 to 3 grand less than it should be).
I have test driven a Mustang and I have to say it was a lovely car (despite what you hear about them and a certain TV presenters anti American car bias), but I still have a hankering for something British with a V8. I had thought of a Chimera/Griffith. However I want a hard top really, so that brings me to the Cerbera.
I have heard lots of scare stories about the unreliability of TVR’s, though a guy works at my place has a Griffith 500 and it is always in the car-park when I leave on a night and never there on a morning when I arrive so it must work
.I should state that it would be a daily runner (I have no space to keep it as a second car for the weekends) and will have to cope with 10k miles per year average and a minimum of 25 – 30 miles a day, come rain or shine, all year round; so I have a few questions: -
The big one is the engine really (as it is with most performance cars). I understand that the engines are “tappety” from cold and this is normal, and they quieten down once the oil is warm and free flowing.
Do you have to leave them to idle for a bit to warm up, or is it best to drive them gently until the oil is warm (like most cars really), and are they fairly solid lumps? What do I need to keep an eye on during weekly maintenance checks?
Are they generally mechanically reliable (gearbox, clutch, diff, suspension etc, etc), and what do I need to look out for.
As they are a fibre glass body I would expect that it is generally robust with few problems but are there any known issues with it?
Electrics, troublesome? Or not? Anything to look out for here?
Interior, any problems here (things rattling, coming loose etc), I don’t use the CD player much in my own car (I could see me using it even less in the Cerb if I bought one) but is it any good? Was air conditioning standard or is that an extra to look out for or potential problem area?
I quite like the look of the twin light conversions on the front, if it doesn’t have these are they expensive? and difficult to fit?
And anything else that I have forgotten that deserves a mention.
I should add that I am quite a mechanically minded person and I have no qualms about getting my hands dirty to keep the car in tip top condition, I am also pretty good at electrics so I can sort out minor problems there too.
I have heard about warranties that can be bought from the likes of the AA etc, are these any good and if so should I consider taking one out if I purchase a Cerbera? Especially with it being an older car.
Thanks in advance,
Matt.
Get yourself along to your local TVR owners club meeting, there you can ask all the questions / have a sit, even get a passenger ride if you ask nicely 
But generally the cars are reasonably robust especially when you consider the performance and what'll you pay for one.
Check the condition of the outriggers and front wishbones for rust
Get one with AC they get damn hot in the summer
If you're not planning on tweaking / tuning ( they are rather fast in std form) then a 4.2 is just as good as a 4.5
Pre 98 / late 97 4.2 cranks have been known to break.
Nitrons and other aftermarket shocks are desirable and a recent geometry check is essential as they are very sensitive to set-up , a cerb on good shocks and well set-up should handle extremely well
Clutches and clutch hydraulics last anywhere from 10 - 40K depending on how they're set-up there are also aftermarket alternatives with good reports.
Engine wise the AJP is noisy, clanky lump especially when cold but by god does it deliver, generally reliably too. Its a rather odd unit in its layout and approach and you'll want a copy of the engine communication software to keep it in fine fettle and be prepared for it drink a little oil.
Electrically they can give niggles as the control units are all TVR however the people that made them at TVR now have their own business servicing and making new units.
I had mine for 18months and thought it was the best car TVR have made, however one of the reasons for selling it was that its not as much fun as the Griff / chimeras etc this is basically because its better sorted. But the steering feel and the sensation of speed is muted compared to the earlier cars.
In time I'll probably come back to the fold when I need something that can take a baby seat....
Matt
But generally the cars are reasonably robust especially when you consider the performance and what'll you pay for one.
Check the condition of the outriggers and front wishbones for rust
Get one with AC they get damn hot in the summer
If you're not planning on tweaking / tuning ( they are rather fast in std form) then a 4.2 is just as good as a 4.5
Pre 98 / late 97 4.2 cranks have been known to break.
Nitrons and other aftermarket shocks are desirable and a recent geometry check is essential as they are very sensitive to set-up , a cerb on good shocks and well set-up should handle extremely well
Clutches and clutch hydraulics last anywhere from 10 - 40K depending on how they're set-up there are also aftermarket alternatives with good reports.
Engine wise the AJP is noisy, clanky lump especially when cold but by god does it deliver, generally reliably too. Its a rather odd unit in its layout and approach and you'll want a copy of the engine communication software to keep it in fine fettle and be prepared for it drink a little oil.
Electrically they can give niggles as the control units are all TVR however the people that made them at TVR now have their own business servicing and making new units.
I had mine for 18months and thought it was the best car TVR have made, however one of the reasons for selling it was that its not as much fun as the Griff / chimeras etc this is basically because its better sorted. But the steering feel and the sensation of speed is muted compared to the earlier cars.
In time I'll probably come back to the fold when I need something that can take a baby seat....
Matt
Edited by 350Matt on Monday 15th September 13:01
In all honesty the last car I would want as a daily, every day use car would be a Cerbera. It's a pretty hard core car, not much fun in the wet, and even worse if your using it all through the winter. If you want to stick with TVR, the Chimaera makes more sense as a car for everyday use. And seeing as your a fan of yank V8's, then go for the Chimaera or Griffith, you'll probably hate the Cerb's V8.
My two pennorth for now (keeping it brief cos I'm at work)...
Don't be put off by reputations. I was warned off Fiat Coupes. Had two and racked up 60k+ trouble-free miles before buying my Cerb in March.
Being handy with the spanners is a big plus.
Personally I wouldn't fancy running one on a daily basis in the winter (though may be doable if the roads/times you drive aren't too bad and the mileage you're talking about isn't OTT). It's not a workhorse/commuting car - any chance you can do as I do and run a £300 shed and save the Cerb for fun?
Would recommend you have a garage for a Cerb.
Don't worry too much about air con. The AC isn't the best on mine but cabin doesn't get as hot as I thought it would do. I know the summer ain't been great but there's not a lot of glass and I haven't been uncomfortable - just get the windows down if you do. Talking of which...don't worry about the CD player - I love music but the car makes its own. You'll find yourself driving most of the time with the windows down.
Buy the best you can. Sorted chassis and good strong engine are the two most important things, worth seeing when the clutch was last replaced as these are a weak point. Original on mine lasted until I bought it (23k) - about average I'm led to believe but depends on driving style I guess. Original shocks ain't the best either (I've just upgraded to Protechs).
Just drive it gently until it's warmed up. Letting it idle for a few minutes before moving off won't do it much good.
Yep, check the levels before every journey but mine doesn't use much oil or water.
I fancied a light conversion but it can wait. Think they're about £1,000-£1,500 for a good job. Would advise getting one with Spiders as think it improves the look.
Personally, I've always been wary of warranties. If you've access to a grand or two in times of trouble, I think it's a better bet.
Not sure where you are in Yorkshire but I'm near the A1/M62 so if you're serious can show you around one? I bought in March after a two-year search and was asking similar questions to you.
Good luck in the search...
Don't be put off by reputations. I was warned off Fiat Coupes. Had two and racked up 60k+ trouble-free miles before buying my Cerb in March.
Being handy with the spanners is a big plus.
Personally I wouldn't fancy running one on a daily basis in the winter (though may be doable if the roads/times you drive aren't too bad and the mileage you're talking about isn't OTT). It's not a workhorse/commuting car - any chance you can do as I do and run a £300 shed and save the Cerb for fun?
Would recommend you have a garage for a Cerb.
Don't worry too much about air con. The AC isn't the best on mine but cabin doesn't get as hot as I thought it would do. I know the summer ain't been great but there's not a lot of glass and I haven't been uncomfortable - just get the windows down if you do. Talking of which...don't worry about the CD player - I love music but the car makes its own. You'll find yourself driving most of the time with the windows down.
Buy the best you can. Sorted chassis and good strong engine are the two most important things, worth seeing when the clutch was last replaced as these are a weak point. Original on mine lasted until I bought it (23k) - about average I'm led to believe but depends on driving style I guess. Original shocks ain't the best either (I've just upgraded to Protechs).
Just drive it gently until it's warmed up. Letting it idle for a few minutes before moving off won't do it much good.
Yep, check the levels before every journey but mine doesn't use much oil or water.
I fancied a light conversion but it can wait. Think they're about £1,000-£1,500 for a good job. Would advise getting one with Spiders as think it improves the look.
Personally, I've always been wary of warranties. If you've access to a grand or two in times of trouble, I think it's a better bet.
Not sure where you are in Yorkshire but I'm near the A1/M62 so if you're serious can show you around one? I bought in March after a two-year search and was asking similar questions to you.
Good luck in the search...
)Sadly living at home does have it's draw back when it comes to cars I only have space for one (My car, my brothers car, my parents car on the drive, and my dad's work Hilux pickup on the road. With all the skips and caravans (flood restorations) parking is a nightmare (most of the people down my street have 2 or 3 cars) and I can't really add another car to that. I can't garage it all the time either as the parents car goes in the garage and mine is relegated to the drive way. Can you get decent covers for them?
Yeah there are plenty of roads that I can get to work on that are kept snow and ice free, though backing out of the drive (down a slope) is always interesting no matter what car you are in, when It is icy.
Yes I am serious bobbins, I would love to have a look around one, I live in Hull so I can easily do that if you want to set it up?
So you guys that think it would be bad as a daily runner definitely think a Griffith or Chimera are the way to go then? Hmm I aren’t big on the idea of having a soft top, can you get hard top kits for them?
Matt
Yeah there are plenty of roads that I can get to work on that are kept snow and ice free, though backing out of the drive (down a slope) is always interesting no matter what car you are in, when It is icy.
Yes I am serious bobbins, I would love to have a look around one, I live in Hull so I can easily do that if you want to set it up?
So you guys that think it would be bad as a daily runner definitely think a Griffith or Chimera are the way to go then? Hmm I aren’t big on the idea of having a soft top, can you get hard top kits for them?
central said:
Do you like purple?
STEVE!
Not really bothered what colour it is to be honest, yes I like purple. STEVE!Matt
Edited by matmoxon on Monday 15th September 23:28
Not an everyday car IMO. Look in the classifieds, very few have more than 4K to 5K miles on a year for their age. This is a big clue to their ability to be used as your only car.
For their purchase price they are expensive to run. Probably over a £1 per mile if averaged over a few years.
For their purchase price they are expensive to run. Probably over a £1 per mile if averaged over a few years.
He lives in Yorkshire and he likes Purple!!!
Am I dreaming??
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/681264.htm
Ok Matt - Come on down !!!!
Am I dreaming??
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/681264.htm
Ok Matt - Come on down !!!!
mxi933 said:
He lives in Yorkshire and he likes Purple!!!
Am I dreaming??
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/681264.htm
Ok Matt - Come on down !!!!
Wow it really is purple isn't it Am I dreaming??
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/681264.htm
Ok Matt - Come on down !!!!
Nice colour actually. If you can wait until late November (waiting until I am 25 for Insurance cost reasons) I may well consider having a good look round it. But I can promise nothing as I need to sell the ST first, and I may have to hold out for the right price.Matt
bobbins said:
My two pennorth for now (keeping it brief cos I'm at work)...
Don't be put off by reputations. I was warned off Fiat Coupes. Had two and racked up 60k+ trouble-free miles before buying my Cerb in March.
Being handy with the spanners is a big plus.
Personally I wouldn't fancy running one on a daily basis in the winter (though may be doable if the roads/times you drive aren't too bad and the mileage you're talking about isn't OTT). It's not a workhorse/commuting car - any chance you can do as I do and run a £300 shed and save the Cerb for fun?
Would recommend you have a garage for a Cerb.
Don't worry too much about air con. The AC isn't the best on mine but cabin doesn't get as hot as I thought it would do. I know the summer ain't been great but there's not a lot of glass and I haven't been uncomfortable - just get the windows down if you do. Talking of which...don't worry about the CD player - I love music but the car makes its own. You'll find yourself driving most of the time with the windows down.
Buy the best you can. Sorted chassis and good strong engine are the two most important things, worth seeing when the clutch was last replaced as these are a weak point. Original on mine lasted until I bought it (23k) - about average I'm led to believe but depends on driving style I guess. Original shocks ain't the best either (I've just upgraded to Protechs).
Just drive it gently until it's warmed up. Letting it idle for a few minutes before moving off won't do it much good.
Yep, check the levels before every journey but mine doesn't use much oil or water.
I fancied a light conversion but it can wait. Think they're about £1,000-£1,500 for a good job. Would advise getting one with Spiders as think it improves the look.
Personally, I've always been wary of warranties. If you've access to a grand or two in times of trouble, I think it's a better bet.
Not sure where you are in Yorkshire but I'm near the A1/M62 so if you're serious can show you around one? I bought in March after a two-year search and was asking similar questions to you.
Good luck in the search...
Don't be put off by reputations. I was warned off Fiat Coupes. Had two and racked up 60k+ trouble-free miles before buying my Cerb in March.
Being handy with the spanners is a big plus.
Personally I wouldn't fancy running one on a daily basis in the winter (though may be doable if the roads/times you drive aren't too bad and the mileage you're talking about isn't OTT). It's not a workhorse/commuting car - any chance you can do as I do and run a £300 shed and save the Cerb for fun?
Would recommend you have a garage for a Cerb.
Don't worry too much about air con. The AC isn't the best on mine but cabin doesn't get as hot as I thought it would do. I know the summer ain't been great but there's not a lot of glass and I haven't been uncomfortable - just get the windows down if you do. Talking of which...don't worry about the CD player - I love music but the car makes its own. You'll find yourself driving most of the time with the windows down.
Buy the best you can. Sorted chassis and good strong engine are the two most important things, worth seeing when the clutch was last replaced as these are a weak point. Original on mine lasted until I bought it (23k) - about average I'm led to believe but depends on driving style I guess. Original shocks ain't the best either (I've just upgraded to Protechs).
Just drive it gently until it's warmed up. Letting it idle for a few minutes before moving off won't do it much good.
Yep, check the levels before every journey but mine doesn't use much oil or water.
I fancied a light conversion but it can wait. Think they're about £1,000-£1,500 for a good job. Would advise getting one with Spiders as think it improves the look.
Personally, I've always been wary of warranties. If you've access to a grand or two in times of trouble, I think it's a better bet.
Not sure where you are in Yorkshire but I'm near the A1/M62 so if you're serious can show you around one? I bought in March after a two-year search and was asking similar questions to you.
Good luck in the search...
Some good advice there so take heed. The only bit I disagree with slightly is the aircon, as it can be a benefit when it comes to resale, and trust me when it's warm (I know we've had a crap summer)and the aircon is working well it's a big bonus.
You can run a Cerb on a daily basis but it does become difficult in winter, heavy rain and snow do not mix well with the Cerb and at times it can become a frustrating pain to drive in these conditions. Some owners do run their Cerbs through winter with no problems at all, but as you'll be new to the car then I would advise against it.......the Cerb really takes some getting used to. Best bet would be to by a £1000 hack (I had a VW Polo) and use this on the days when the weather is bad, I know parking space sounds like it's an issue for you but it's an option.
Best of luck,
Jules.
Thing is the Cerb can be used every day but they are like all TVR's in that they need regular fettling to stay tip top.
Used every day you may well find you spend a lot of your weekends sorting the niggles.
They do have a thirst ( expect 24mpg tops) and an appetite for rear tyres, parts can be quite expensive as well as most of the car is TVR bespoke and not a bitsa like the earlier stuff ie £120 / disc as they are AP racing items.
But of all the TVR's I've owned I'd say the cerb is the one which would stand up best to everyday use especially if you find one which has been thoroughly fettled by someone else
Matt
Used every day you may well find you spend a lot of your weekends sorting the niggles.
They do have a thirst ( expect 24mpg tops) and an appetite for rear tyres, parts can be quite expensive as well as most of the car is TVR bespoke and not a bitsa like the earlier stuff ie £120 / disc as they are AP racing items.
But of all the TVR's I've owned I'd say the cerb is the one which would stand up best to everyday use especially if you find one which has been thoroughly fettled by someone else
Matt
matmoxon said:
mxi933 said:
He lives in Yorkshire and he likes Purple!!!
Am I dreaming??
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/681264.htm
Ok Matt - Come on down !!!!
Wow it really is purple isn't it Am I dreaming??
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/681264.htm
Ok Matt - Come on down !!!!
Nice colour actually. If you can wait until late November (waiting until I am 25 for Insurance cost reasons) I may well consider having a good look round it. But I can promise nothing as I need to sell the ST first, and I may have to hold out for the right price.Matt
Let me just summarise. You want me to wait until Late November and then you MIGHT just consider having a look but you CANT promise nothing.
Cheek !!!
I think it is possible to run a Cerb as a daily driver, but I don't think it's a car really suited to it. It would certainly be expensive, that's for sure.
I speak as somebody who ran an S1 Elise as a daily drive for 3 years and I think the Cerb would be more difficult to live with. Whilst it is mechanically fairly simple, the electrics on the car can be somewhat troublesome, and you just know that the day it lets you down with a silly electrical problem would be the day when you most needed to be somewhere, and the day with the worst weather.
There is of course a counter argument that says the more you use them the better they get, and the more miles I have done in mine I certainly concur... BUT even after a year of ownership I still have a little voice in the back of my mind telling me that I might just get stranded somewhere with the Cerb.
Hats off to the guys that do run them every day, I just think it's not for everyone.
I speak as somebody who ran an S1 Elise as a daily drive for 3 years and I think the Cerb would be more difficult to live with. Whilst it is mechanically fairly simple, the electrics on the car can be somewhat troublesome, and you just know that the day it lets you down with a silly electrical problem would be the day when you most needed to be somewhere, and the day with the worst weather.
There is of course a counter argument that says the more you use them the better they get, and the more miles I have done in mine I certainly concur... BUT even after a year of ownership I still have a little voice in the back of my mind telling me that I might just get stranded somewhere with the Cerb.
Hats off to the guys that do run them every day, I just think it's not for everyone.
I can't ask you to wait mxi, from the pictures it looks like a nice car. Reason I say late November at the earliest is because there is no garuntee I’ll be able to sell it, allot of people will shy away from the ST as it drinks V-Power at a rate of 20 –25 mpg and in 2010 it will be £400 to tax 
because of the back dated tax b
ks.
Thanks for the open and honest replies some would have just said go for it, I can use the bus Monday to Thursday to get to work if I have a problem (or to keep the miles down) that I can't rectify quickly, or that needs a part. However, I'd rather drive as it takes 25 minutes (early morning so no nasty stop start malarkey) rather than an hour on the Bus (goes round many different areas picking people up)
If the Cerbera isn't really suited to it, then is there another TVR that is? Or I best keeping the Mustang Idea?
Matt
because of the back dated tax bks.Thanks for the open and honest replies some would have just said go for it, I can use the bus Monday to Thursday to get to work if I have a problem (or to keep the miles down) that I can't rectify quickly, or that needs a part. However, I'd rather drive as it takes 25 minutes (early morning so no nasty stop start malarkey) rather than an hour on the Bus (goes round many different areas picking people up)
If the Cerbera isn't really suited to it, then is there another TVR that is? Or I best keeping the Mustang Idea?
Matt
Here's what you do: buy mxi's cerb and give it a loving home, take it out at weekends and evenings when its dry and you can really enjoy it. Also buy a £500 POS to drive to work, and don't bother cleaning or servicing it. You'll find it very satisfying racking up the miles in the slush and salt knowing that your weekend car is cosied up in the garage all polished up ready for the next sunny day or balmy evening. If it's a fine spring morning, treat yourself and take the cerb to work. Treat driving the cerb as a special event and you'll get more out of it, IMO.
FarmyardPants said:
Here's what you do: buy mxi's cerb and give it a loving home, take it out at weekends and evenings when its dry and you can really enjoy it. Also buy a £500 POS to drive to work, and don't bother cleaning or servicing it. You'll find it very satisfying racking up the miles in the slush and salt knowing that your weekend car is cosied up in the garage all polished up ready for the next sunny day or balmy evening. If it's a fine spring morning, treat yourself and take the cerb to work. Treat driving the cerb as a special event and you'll get more out of it, IMO.
I would love to be able to do that, but I have no garage available 
(my dad puts his car in it, I have offered to rent it but he won't even for £50 per month) and the parking is a nightmare. Down the street I live in so the £500 POS would be parked round the corner (not a problem except when it is pelting down with rain ).Matt
Edited by matmoxon on Tuesday 16th September 20:30
I do suggest you get a good cover, because if you leave it in the rain for long enough it will probably get a bit damp inside. Never seen a fibre glass car yet that is perfect! But then again my friends Pasat filled the passenger foot well with water last week!
I have used sealant on the door seals and that has made a huge improvement, but after two days in the pouring rain last week I had a slightly damp patch by the pedals.
I have just built a car port for mine, and with the cover she should survive the winter I hope!
Is the Cerbera a good commuter hack? NO! Bit like putting a Tiger on leash!
If you do a lot of stop start heavy traffic you won't enjoy it in a Cerbera!
You'll need a bottle of anti mist for the inside and rain X for outside.
Time to get your own place? Or get the family to move! Build a bigger garage! Put up a car port!
Or get one of those £8K jobbies and just drive it!
If you really do do it, I would also suggest a set of narrower winter wheels with decent winter grade tyres, and leave the sticky stuff for summer.
You might think I forgot to mention reliability?
It never comes into my mind!
Been better than any used car I've had for years!
Steve
I have used sealant on the door seals and that has made a huge improvement, but after two days in the pouring rain last week I had a slightly damp patch by the pedals.
I have just built a car port for mine, and with the cover she should survive the winter I hope!
Is the Cerbera a good commuter hack? NO! Bit like putting a Tiger on leash!
If you do a lot of stop start heavy traffic you won't enjoy it in a Cerbera!
You'll need a bottle of anti mist for the inside and rain X for outside.
Time to get your own place? Or get the family to move! Build a bigger garage! Put up a car port!
Or get one of those £8K jobbies and just drive it!
If you really do do it, I would also suggest a set of narrower winter wheels with decent winter grade tyres, and leave the sticky stuff for summer.
You might think I forgot to mention reliability?
It never comes into my mind!
Been better than any used car I've had for years!
Steve
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