Hot Start ... strange condition

[martinj999]

Hi Guys ...
Chimaera 450 98 recently suffering Hot Start problem, started fine when cold but after a short run, fully warmed up, no go (especially in petrol stations!) So I fitted Modwise kit which seemed to solve the problem, now re-starts after a run, shortly after stopping. But after the car has stood for a little while, will not start until it has cooled down ... ? Obviously heat related, my guess is the starter/solenoid may be failing but not sure, what do you think?

[tvrbob]

I often suffer from failure to start at petrol stations etc. The fuel pump primes and I can hear a drop in the tone of the pump when I try to turn the starter motor but nothing happens. That indicates that power is being drawn by the starter solenoid but the starter doesn't turn. If I leave it a few mins it turns fine. I've always put this down to the starter solenoid overheating due to heat transmission from the hot engine.

[martinj999]

Yes, I've had that for a while now, I'll try replacing the starter motor/solenoid as the next step, seems they only last about 50k anyway.

[ads]

I've had this, its the solenoid sticking when hot due to expansion and the old grease becoming like treacle.

I took the solenoid off and cleaned and re-greased been fine since.

[tvrbob]

I recall someone produced a heat shield to protect the starter motor from engine and exhaust. I would be looking to fit something like that next time I'm under the engine bay.

[martinj999]

Thanks for that, I'll try cleaning it first to see if that makes any difference.

[Timja]

Also, bear in mind it could potentially be immobilisor related - I had similar symptoms, tried hot start kit but still had problems - ended up being immobiliser related. Once changed by Carl i've had no problems.

[PRTVR]

I also had a similar problem, turned out to be the battery was on the way out, voltage was only slightly down, but that was enough to stop it working when it got hot, replaced the battery and I had no more problems.

[Ribol]

martinj999 said:

Obviously heat related, my guess is the starter/solenoid may be failing but not sure, what do you think?

Clean up the piston/bore inside the starter solenoid - the real cause of "hot start" problem (IMO).

[Del 203]

Timja said:

Also, bear in mind it could potentially be immobilisor related - I had similar symptoms, tried hot start kit but still had problems - ended up being immobiliser related. Once changed by Carl i've had no problems.

Agreed

[AREA]

I've had the same problem and it drove me nuts. Fitted the hot start mod; fitted heat shield around the starter motor but still suffered. I suspect that the imobiliser is at fault somewhere along the line and so have tried to shield it from the heat from the pipes to the heater matrix.

However, even if I had the imobi unit repaired/replaced I'd always be a bit suspicious of it happening again. Not starting at the petrol station is one thing; if (and no, I don't do this very often at all but given that 95% of the time I drive an automatic there's a chance!) I stalled pulling out of a junction it could be down right dangerous.

So, I've fitted an alternate starting circuit with a 'push to make' button under the dashboard. I took 12v feed from the hot start mod relay, through the 'push to make' switch, then through the engine bay (and being really OTT run the wiring through heatshield ducting) down to the solenoid. Has never let me down. And even though it's a hotwire to the starter, unless I've "pipped" the button on the alarm fob, the fuel pump circuit doesn't kick in, so is still secure.

Made these changes about 2 years ago and it's never failed to get me going.

[wargriff]

had similar on my griff, had to leave car for 20mins plus to cool before starting again, it was heat soak into the starter motor.

changed the starter and now all is happy in the world...

[Taraka30]

I had this too. Give Carl Baker a call at Car and Bike installations. He reckons that most of the time it's the immobiliser on its way out. Because of the way that TVR wired them without a relay they take the full amps through the immobiliser when you crank the starter motor. They aren't often rated high enough to take this and they're all starting to go after 10 years in the cars. Mines not too bad and the hot start kit has 'bought me some time' but fully expecting to have to have a new immobiliser fitted sometime. Not a massive expense and worth it to not look like a lemon at petrol stations.

HTH.

[tvrbob]

Just trying to get things straight here. There are two distinct issues, immobiliser and overheated starter solenoid. Correct me if I'm wrong but if the fuel pump primes then surely it can't be the immobiliser. With my Meta T2 the fuel pump won't prime if the system is immobilised.

[GreenV8S]

It usually seems to be a combination of problems - a voltage drop on the wiring meaning the solenoid doesn't get the full voltage, plus the starter motor being old / dirty / sticky internally, plus the starter suffering from heat soak.

You may be able to make the problem go away by addressing any of these. The best solution is to address all of them: fit the mod-wise wiring upgrade (or equivalent), make sure the immobiliser isn't causing a voltage drop, get the starter motor reconditioned, fit a heat shield when you replace it.

[Del 203]

tvrbob said:

Just trying to get things straight here. There are two distinct issues, immobiliser and overheated starter solenoid. Correct me if I'm wrong but if the fuel pump primes then surely it can't be the immobiliser. With my Meta T2 the fuel pump won't prime if the system is immobilised.

Fuel pump does proime & you can hot wire the starter/by-pass the immobiliser/solenoid problem

[Pupp]

Del 203 said:

tvrbob said:

Just trying to get things straight here. There are two distinct issues, immobiliser and overheated starter solenoid. Correct me if I'm wrong but if the fuel pump primes then surely it can't be the immobiliser. With my Meta T2 the fuel pump won't prime if the system is immobilised.

Fuel pump does proime & you can hot wire the starter/by-pass the immobiliser/solenoid problem

Immobiliser has three circuits that it cuts. The starter is one so, as Del says, you can have a problem there without it affecting fuel pump or ign (which are the other two). Used to get this all the time and went through a spell where a good slap on the dash top (passenger side) would jolt the immobiliser circuitry back into action.

[Del 203]

Pupp said:

Del 203 said:

tvrbob said:

Just trying to get things straight here. There are two distinct issues, immobiliser and overheated starter solenoid. Correct me if I'm wrong but if the fuel pump primes then surely it can't be the immobiliser. With my Meta T2 the fuel pump won't prime if the system is immobilised.

Fuel pump does proime & you can hot wire the starter/by-pass the immobiliser/solenoid problem

Immobiliser has three circuits that it cuts. The starter is one so, as Del says, you can have a problem there without it affecting fuel pump or ign (which are the other two). Used to get this all the time and went through a spell where a good slap on the dash top (passenger side) would jolt the immobiliser circuitry back into action.

Blimey !! I got some electrickery correct ok ok.... Mr Beer advised me

I still have a click switch wired in from when i had an immobiliser problem in France (1800 miles & that was the only problem ) don't think i'll need it again after visiting Carl Baker, just haven't taken it out...

[David Beer]

we have to be slightly accurate here, 99.9 of issues are cured by putting back the relay that tvr took out.

[David Beer]